Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

[Apocalypse]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

There's a flaw with this. You need to put 5 points into tier 1, but given the choice between putting them into a passive that will help you later on and an attack skill that only helps you at low level, you pick the passive.

Which means you'll have no attack skills until you reach your desired attack at tier 6. Hope you like normal attack...

Those prereq arrows were annoying to many, but necessary for this reason. At least you had level 1 ice blast to shoot at monsters then.

respecs will take care of this problem, load up early and switch late. not a fan of respecs myself as i feel the labor in getting to max level is the meat of a game like this but whatever they will be there to fix this issue

 

[Chorkstain]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

Limiting the ratio of skill maximum to skill points will increase diversity, yes. However it may in theory make characters more powerful (strange to conjecture since the game is far from release, I admit). Skills are likely to be balanced such that they are sufficiently powerful to function, in the same way as in Diablo 2. By that reasoning, a level 10-15 skill may be equivalent to a level 20 skill from Diablo 2. This time however, you have more of these skills. Feel free to pull me up on this as I'm probably making some hidden assumptions.

On the other hand with such a comprehensive array of passive skills I don't think players will be at a loss as to where to spend their points. To me, these skills intersect with the void left by manual stat point allocation.

 

[Edairu]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

The problem I see with this is that most good characters might end up the same, now that all barbs can use all the best skills in every tree etc.

One way to solve this (hope it hasn't been said) is that I saw the max was 15, and usually only five. I hope that the more skill points you spend in one tree, the higher the maximum for the skills will be in that tree. That means you could make a very strong Juggernaut, or you could mix all the best skills available for barb, but the skills overall are weaker.

What would you think of this?

This would make a lot of sense to me.

That seems like a very good idea to me too.

Specializing in one tree will increase the cap of the skills in that tree. So say you only care about that Juggernaut tree, you spend all your points there, and the more you spend the level cap on all those skills gradually rises up to 15.

If you prefer to use a variety of different abilities and spread your points evenly, you skills may only cap at level 7 or 8 for example. But this way you have lots of different options to choose from.

 

[Perfecttear]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

Does nobody think that skills could work like this:


Normal difficulty - max skill limit 5

Nightmare difficulty - max skill limit 10

Hell difficulty - max skill limit 15


This would make sense , as all skill would be stronger lategame and balanced.

Bashiok did said that they're working with all skills capped at five, but can be rased up to 15.

 

[Chorkstain]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

Hahaha, Perfecttear shamelessly plugs his idea like a begging scrag.

Naw just kidding

 

[peasant]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

It is most definitely NOT a rune that raises the skill cap. What happens if you put 5 in magic missile, then raise the cap to 6, put in another point, and remove the rune? The way Bashiok said it implied a permanent but limited change. He said "It's not possible to raise the cap on all skills to the maximum amount".

I think you've gotten it wrong. What I meant was that the rune raises the player's skill level for that particular skill by X levels, allowing the player to exceed the normal cap.

Here's an example: A player has a particular skill at Level 5. He then attaches the Rune, raising it to Level 6. The guy then acquires certain items that raise it by another few points, etc.

 

[Wirt]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

Those prereq arrows were annoying to many,

Where does Bashiok say that prereq arrows are gone too? Skills might still have prereq skills in the same tree. Actually, without them there wouldn't be 3 different trees anymore: the word 'tree' refers to the branches formed by the prereq. arrows in the first place. Without branches, there's no tree...
Having no prereqs within a skill tree, we should speak of 'skill groupings'. See the difference I mean?

Wirt

 

[GuardianHadriel]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

seismic slam+dual wield ftw:thumbup:

 

[Puckineh]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

im leaning a bit towards the other side of things. im not sure this makes for more variety. there will be great skills that everyone can have with little investment. what if every sorc could get a maxed blizzard without a major investment

however I like the idea that more points in a tree lets you build skills further for that tree. with something like that in place it could work

 

[The Norselord]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

Oh oh.

Sounds to me like someone is screwing up the game a little.

What is the point in having seperate skill trees if you can distribute skills in any tree without having to invest in the earlier tiers of specific trees first?

Wouldn't it make more sense to just have one big tree instead of three diffrent ones? Or will this work in the same way that the CivilizationIV franchise does the tech tree?

 

[Krugar]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

You read it wrong, Norselord. The full explanation on how it works is here: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/diablo-iii-skill-trees-innovative-overhaul/

 

[The Norselord]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

You read it wrong, Norselord. The full explanation on how it works is here: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/diablo-iii-skill-trees-innovative-overhaul/

No, i think i read it right.

One can put 5 points in Tier 1 of Battlemaster and then 5 points in Tier 2 of Juggernaut and then 5 points in Tier 3 of Berserker. So, what is the point in having seperate trees? (It is also clear that i can put 5 points in the first tier of ANY tree prior to investing 5 more points in ANY tier2 or tier1 of ANY tree)

Unless there are some specific prereqs there is no point in having different trees.

If i misinterpreted this, please feel free to explain it to me.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

Yup, you are right. I was the one who didn't properly read your post. My apologies. To answer your question...

So, what is the point in having seperate trees?

In this new context, each tree is merely a collection of similar skills, or of skills fitting a similar theme. Do note that exactly because of this lack of formal separation, they are now presenting all trees on the same screen. The tabbed interface is gone.

 

[In the name of Zod]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

So there is still a pre-reqs system they are just giving us a little bit more flexibility in where to put them. This will only make the game design harder as sooner or a later people will work out which low skill is the best that that will be the end of it.

 

[mouseman]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

You are all basing your arguments on the Diablo 2 system.

Diablo 2 skills are pretty straightforward. On some level, they all make damage. Some make less, some make more, some make AoE. But every skill you want to max, makes damage. So it's easy to compare the skills and max the ones that make more damage than others.

They have stated very clearly that Diablo 3 won't be like that. They want us to have 5-7 usable skills with different powers. The game is said to be more tactical, requiring you to stun, maneuver and damage different kind of monsters. Obviously we don't know the facts yet but suffice to say that there isn't just monsters and monsters with more HP and skills and skills with more damage. If you take the barbarian rage system for example. You need to build up rage first to make a warcry buff, then to use some other skill to attack and so forth. It isn't just about spamming 1-2 skills until your eyes bleed as you all assume.

Sure, maybe we'll all pick the same 5-7 skills, then? I'm confident that the game will be better implemented than that. I think you will raise the skill caps by investing on a skill tree. You will have freedom, but you got to make tough choices, boosting you on one tree, limiting you on other. This pretty much equals to endless possibilities and variations and with skill runes it's hard to say what's "the best", since it's not just all DPS. I don't see why endless variations equals to identical build, but maybe it's just me..

 

[TheDarkSide]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

I like the way this is progressing but its way to early to try and figure out how it will actually work . Assuming it will be like D2 is not a good idea as they have stated the game is different and they want u to use many different skills. Ala the skills bar menu with its many slots. Looking good Imo , I hope we hear more at the next Blizcon event ...

:thumbup:

 

[stillman]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

I think it's allright that the trees merge like this. 'So what is the point of calling them different trees?' Well, as mentioned, the skills in each tree have a little something in common. I forget what they are, but one tree is for mastery of combat (in general), another tree is for making yourself a huge monster who can live longer (in general), etc. If they made one big tree of 70+ skills and called it 'barbarian', newcomers would have to spend more time looking all over it to figgure out what they want to invest in. With different tree names, if some player wants to maximize his health and survivability, he goes to the berserker tree or whatever.

 

[lumpor]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

Oh come on!

This is just like wow. And while it has its benefits, there are major flaws.


1. Hybriding is kinda non-existent. You cannot mix different trees to make something unique.

2. Even worse, the customization is horrendous. While before, you could choose to put some points here, some points there. Now it's "max it or leave it".

There will be times when you put some points into a skill but not max it, but that is only to get to the next tier.

All talent builds will be more or less the same. A little bit variation, but not like before.

Thanks for killing customization, the imo most important part in rpg games

 

[Nevre]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

Did you even read the plan Lumpor?

 

[Krugar]

Re: Breaking News! Bashiok says One skill tree.

This is just like wow. And while it has its benefits, there are major flaws.

Let's hear it then..

1. Hybriding is kinda non-existent. You cannot mix different trees to make something unique.

Where did it say you cannot mix skills from different trees?
It's quite the opposite. I can choose any skill from any tree as long as I spend the needed points in the previous tier skills of any tree.

Example: I need to spend 5 points in tier 1 skills in order to access tier 2 skills. I decide to spend 5 points only in skills from tree A. Now, all tier 2 skills from ALL trees are open and I can start spending points on them as I wish.

All talent builds will be more or less the same. A little bit variation, but not like before.

Yes. We have heard that argument before all over the place. It's tiresome already.

You are basing your whole argumentation on the wrong premises. Either read again what is being discussed (http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/diablo-iii-skill-trees-innovative-overhaul/) or avoid discussing what you clearly demonstrated knowing nothing about.