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Bramble vs. Fortitude

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by Toadday, Jun 23, 2005.

  1. Toadday

    Toadday IncGamers Member

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    Bramble vs. Fortitude

    Here it is: I have a awsome WWsin. I love her but, Im stuck on somthing. Bramble or Fortitude? I know WWsins should focus on Poison damage and all but Foritude has rediculous mods. Please reply if you know the true answer and why you chose that answer. Thank you
     
  2. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    Enigma. Always.
     
  3. Trojan Man

    Trojan Man IncGamers Member

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    ..Why enigma?? You have Dflight to get to them.

    On my WWSin I use Bramble Just for the Extra Poison Damage . I Find its more prefrence than what is better. I Myself have tried both and just pefered Bramble.
     
  4. Toadday

    Toadday IncGamers Member

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    Yea seriously where are you going with the whole Enigma thing? lol
     
  5. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    bramble > fort for ww sin.

    due to the fact that most wwsins do only slightly physical dmg, fort wont increase much.
     
  6. TheKing

    TheKing IncGamers Member

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    ALWAYS!!! lisen to the guy, he knows what he`s talking about! dragon flight is so buggy and atacks at 24 frames!!! you`ll never beat a good caster, trust me!
     
  7. Davie.

    Davie. IncGamers Member

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    Enigma, but if you dont wanna be good vs casters, go bramble.
     
  8. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    u dont use df for attack, u use for tele. Yes, i know is really buggy and it will get interrupted, but then most wwsins dont even put on fcr gear. so df is considered more than use enigma for tele.
     
  9. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    That's reversed. You CAN wear bramble on melee only duels. But that means you lack the str boost of the enigma generally since you didn't design around it. You can beat all melee with enigma except good ww barbs. Bramble doesn't change this.
     
  10. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    Do a little reading before you "lol" anything.
     
  11. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    Dragon flight is only really useful vs. casters when you have teleport to position yourself. Otherwise it can never be depended on. At all. Further, a bramble build pre-supposes lack of fast cast. This means Mind blast ceases to be a serious worker for you. Again, a big mistake generally.
     
  12. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    i doubt u need the str from enigma though...most of them can get their claw req with base str without enigma.

    but again, is personal prefrence.
     
  13. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    This is why most ww sins aren't any good vs. casters. Show me a ww-sin that uses bramble and I'll show you a ww-sin that loses 9 times out of 10 to any caster with a clue.
     
  14. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    It all depends on what full equipment you are wearing. A well-built enigma ww-sin with 65 fast cast and the works will often wear shadow dancers and a CoA. The shadow dancers pay for themselves in stats, giving you 25 dex to make up for the str you spent, along with 30 FHR and +2 shadow skills. From there it's only a 7 pt. str investment to get a CoA, which ends up being superior to all other helms, though an .08 valk can be argued to be better in certain configurations.
     
  15. Bigrob

    Bigrob Banned

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    so kicker has faster fcr? they rarely put on fcr gears also.
     
  16. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    And they fare just as poorly.
     
  17. DarkMousy

    DarkMousy IncGamers Member

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    I remember my friend spent a fortune making his "perfect" bramblesin, got a ton of charms, 5/5 faceted everything he could, etc... claimed it as the be all and end all caster killer. He had serious issues attempting to catch my blizz sorc when she was teleing at 9 frames, when I swapped the snowclash out for arachs to hit the next frame it was a joke. I don't even need to discuss how he fared against any decent 200fcr fb or lite sorcs. Dflight is too buggy, requires 24 frames, and factoring in the max block that most good casters have, dflight becomes somewhat useless.

    A good wwsin typically uses enigma, hits a much better fcr bp making use of a maxed mindblast (invaluable when facing hammerdins, can't be stressed enough, and for stunlocking with help from traps), and has a much more flexible gear choice (coa is simply godly along with shadow skill boost from shadow dancers.)
    With the fcr, tele allows you a chance to catch more defensive casters and position yourself for dflight if you please. If you've ever dueled a GOOD defensive es sorc or necro with a bramblesin, you'll know that you're not getting anywhere.
    Let's not forget the frw bonus that enigma gives.... again, useful in instances where you'll prefer to run or walk quickly rather than tele (dodging traps and escaping a stunlock).

    Let's compare the gains you get from bramble as opposed to enigma:

    Bramble:
    *massive psn dmg increase, fhr, some res, slight mana increase

    Enigma:
    *+1 teleport, massive str increase allowing for much more flexibility in gear, 45% frw, slight life increase, +2 skills (helps mindblast + traps alot)

    The fhr from bramble is easily countered by the resists/dr/fhr from a ber ber coa (or psn facets if you can get dr from elsewhere), the mana increase could be replaced by an arachnids (which on a bramble build would IMO be inferior to a verdungos, as the fcr isn't needed and teh dr of dungos would be needed). Also, fhr on an enigma build also comes from shadow dancers.

    The only time a wwsin should be using bramble is vs another wwsin. The only other char where the increased damage would be useful would be a wwbarb, which is completely irrelevant as any good wwbaba would not be beaten by a wwsin. Enigma might even be better in that case, as ww against a barb = death, so mb might be a better, if redundant and boring choice.
     
  18. TheKing

    TheKing IncGamers Member

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    hmmm you can pre-buff venom with a dusk bramble and still using enigma!!!
     
  19. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    I tried the whole pre-buff route. It sucks unless it's for a tournament (and the rules even allow it). You quickly get tired of running to your stash every few minutes to buff venom. In any event, you lose the str bonus on enigma that makes it possible to wear CoA and shadow dancers. It is the the trio of enigma/CoA/shadow dancers that helps make ghost variants so strong. The only thing that compete are builds made with hyper rare 20 FC circlets with skills, stats, AR, etc. etc. and other off-the-wall stuff. The only thing I assume you get for a CoA/dancer build is a FC ammy and a FC ring, both of which are readily available.
     
  20. MauJ

    MauJ IncGamers Member

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    A) No clue what kind of barbs you're beating with enigma on.

    B) I wanna see your 65% fcr keep up with a GOOD sorc who's been aound and knows how to actually tele. I'm talking .09 tele not the weak teleing they do these days. I know you don't have the mana for that.

    C) Bramble/Fort/Enigma doesn't matter you wont beat a solid Charge/Smiter. And no, smiters that are dumb enough to chase after you are not solid players.
     

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