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bramble vs facets

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by Varg, Feb 17, 2004.

  1. Varg

    Varg IncGamers Member

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    bramble vs facets

    if i put 4x 5/5 poison facets in a 4 sockt armor ill get

    -20% Poison Resistance
    +20% Poison Skill Damage

    if you compare that against a bad bramble in pure poison effect ?
    does i get most poison dmg from the facet armor or the bramble ?

    u have 2 excuse my English...
     
  2. belth

    belth IncGamers Member

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    I'd go even with a 25% Bramble over 4xPSN facet armor, the other mods are welcome also.

    If the game's calculations are as "basic" as possible, 4 facet armor would equal a +40% Bramble.
     
  3. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    Well it is quite difficult to answer since it depends on the other equipment you have that can lower resist. And Bramble has some very nice other mods that could be useful to a Necro using poison that a 4 facet armour will lose. Here are some simple numbers to illustrate the point about Poison Damage.

    But assuming that you only have Trag ouls wing giving -25% resist the 4 facet armour will be better than Bramble against those poison immunes that Lower Resist can break. These monsters will be left with very high residual resistance to poison. Say P Nova does 2500 poison damage per shot to a monster without including either of the two armours. The basic damage is 2000 and Trangs gloves add 25% for 2500. The Trang Oul wing -25% would reduce the poison resistance to 75% and the 2500 would become 625 per Nova.

    A perfect 50% Bramble would increase the damage. The basic damage is 2000 and trang gloves plus bramble would increase this by 25% plus 50% = 3500. So the monster would take 875.

    The 4 facet armour would increase damage and reduce resistance. The basic damage would increase form 2000 by 25% plus 20% = 2900. The facets would mean the monster resistance would be reduced from 75% to 55%. The damage taken would be 2900 * 45% = 1305. So in this circumstance the facets do 50% more damage than a perfect Bramble.

    Including other lower resistance gear would change the relative worth of 4 facet armour over Bramble.
     
  4. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    @Varg: Welcome Newcomer to The Darkness. Grab a brew :drink: and feel free to raise some corpses.

    For pure Poison Damage a 4 Facet would be better as illustrated bu JoJeck. But you will be missing out on some great mods.
     
  5. Varg

    Varg IncGamers Member

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    ill go for the 100 life + 4x 5/5 poison then...

    are you guys sure that ill get more dmg from 4x facets ?
    i mean 4x 5/5 is so much cheaper then bramble = ohm+sur
    and with the facets you know what you get. bramble is 25-50%
    and 25% sucks big time.
    someone knows how muck beter ? in dmg...
     
  6. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    It is not simple to answer your question. I did some sums above that shows it can be more damaging when you face poison immunes... which is just when you really want to do the damage. However, it depends on the exact type of necro you're building and your other equipment especially the amount it can reduce poison resistance.

    So if you'd like a definite answer post your necro build and the equiment you plan to use. Then we can make a comparison of 4 facet versus Bramble for you.
     
  7. iceball_aarf

    iceball_aarf IncGamers Member

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    How about PvP?... i would guess that in that case it could be more desirable to use the facets just because it could help against those players that overstack poison resist... (-20% from facets, -25% from trangoul´s wings+claws+belt and a possible -45-55% from a death´s web socketed with another facet= total of -90 to -100 there)...
     
  8. Varg

    Varg IncGamers Member

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    my necro

    skills:
    nova:max
    dagger:max
    Explosion:max
    lower res:10-15

    eq:
    death web:48% +2 5/5 facet "died with my 50% +2 last week"
    maras
    soj or bk "i like bk more because hc"
    to belt
    to Wing 5/5 facet
    to Claws
    crown of ages 2x 5/5 facets
    annihilus
    10 p&b skiller

    the BIG ? to me is the armor....
    is it no biger differenc ill go for bramble..
    i know nothing about res and poison dmg calculations...
     
  9. belth

    belth IncGamers Member

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    Since it's HC, I think the other mods on Bramble outweight the possible higher damage on 4 facet armor.
     
  10. Varg

    Varg IncGamers Member

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    bramble:

    Level 15-21 thorns = manage without "i think 8--)"
    +50% FHR = coa have 30% and if i get past 48% = 5 frames im satisfied.im no warrior.
    +25-50% To Poison Skill Damage =this is the BIG ??
    +300 Defense = ok but not necessary
    Increase Maximum Mana 5% = manage without
    Regenerate Mana 15% = manage without
    +5% To Maximum Cold Resist = its ok but i manage without this one 2
    Fire Resist +30% = but i almost have max res
    Poison Resist +100% = same as above
    +13 Life After Each Kill = manage without
    Level 13 Spirit of Barbs = manage without

    so what is so great with bramble ?
    is bramle as great as they say ?

    im a noob...dont know...only my second necro.
    for that reason,i ask you necro oldtimers about bramble..
     
  11. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    So your basic equipment without armour has:
    total plus skills for P&B are 4 + 2 + 1 +1 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 10 = 22
    total plus skills to curse are 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 10
    so Lower Resist will be about -64 (not sure exactly)
    and you have 4 facets and Trang Gloves giving + 20 + 25% = 45% poison damage
    and total negative to monster poison resist is -48 -20 -25 = -93% PR

    I don't know exactly what damage your Poison Nova will do but it doesn't matter for the comparison since it is all relative.

    Taking the same assumptions used before and a notional 2000 damage Poison Nova we get

    Without any armour
    2000 * (1 + 45%) = 2900 and monster has 7% Poision resist so 93% is done
    2900 * 93% = 2697

    With 50% Bramble
    2000 * ( 1 + 95%) = 3900 and poison resist is still 7%
    3900 * 93% = 3627

    With 25% Bramble
    2000 * ( 1 + 70%) = 3400
    3400 * 93% = 3162

    With 4 facet armour

    2000 * (1 + 65%) = 3300
    But the extra 20 negative resist now means that PR = -113% and the monsters resist would now be -13%
    3300 * 113% = 3729

    Therefore it is clear that the 2 armours are roughly the same when dealling with poison immunes with the 4 facet being better by 3729 / 3627 = approx 3% over a perfect Bramble and 3729 / 3400 = 9.6% over a worst Bramble.

    When dealing with basic monsters with no poison resistance the -100% cap on negative resistances comes into play if you use Lower Resist (assumed to have - 64%) In all cases the cap will be reached and poison damage will be doubled.

    So for a 50% Bramble Armour
    2000 * ( 1 + 95%) = 3900
    3900 * 200% = 7800

    for 25% Bramble Armour
    2000 * ( 1 + 70%) = 3400
    3400 * 200% = 6800

    and for 4 facet Armour
    2000 * (1 + 65%) = 3300
    3300 * 200% = 6600

    Overall I would say that your other equipment is so good that it really doesnt matter much what you use :p

    Incidently the crown of ages has a horrible 174 Str requirement. I'm sure you could use another helm with lower requirements and hence have more life for your hc build.

    Good Luck.
     
  12. Varg

    Varg IncGamers Member

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    thx

    i thank u big time for the detailed answer jojeck !
    :clap:
     
  13. Varg

    Varg IncGamers Member

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    k...bramble it is then.

    after i have seen all your calculation jojeck i settleld for bramble.

    just traded sur+ohm rune.

    offerd 2x storm+tr armor+shako

    so now when i sock my dusk shroud it will be anything between 25-50%
    its so unfair..
    if the stats is 25% the bramble only is a expensive crapy bramble 8--(
    if i would sock me like honor or enigma...then i would know what i would get...
    but with bramble only have one word 4 it..

    unfair

    thx anyway for all the god advices
     

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