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Boys with Bows tourney idea

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by smilts, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. smilts

    smilts IncGamers Member

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    Boys with Bows tourney idea

    Hi I'm Smilts and I'm really very new around here. Well I was reading around and looked into the tournament listing thread and thought why not one more. So without any delay heres my idea.
    1 intro
    2 winning
    3 rules (cause its good in these things to have rules)
    4 what you get if you win, and signnups

    Introduction: I've had a thing for bows for the last little while and most of the characters have a decent build around the bow. So I thought why not limit what can be done with the character. And lets just see who can do the best with those limitations and a bow.

    Winning: Is really very easy just be the first one to reach hell baal and post a screen shot of that battle. The first to post a screen shot of themselves after having beat normal baal will gain a 1 day advantage. The first to post a screen shot of themselves after defeating NM baal will gain a 2 day advantage. If after 1 month no one has managed to get to and fight hell baal we can decide to extend the tourney, or go with whomever has gotten the farthest at that point.

    Rules:
    1. only male lvl1 untwinked vanilla characters will be allowed

    2. Characters may only carry bows( the Widow Maker is not allowed)

    3. skill placement (where it gets wierd)You will have a total of 80 skill points to use. They can be used in any two trees of your choice, in the following order.
    1 skill in each tree must have 20 points
    1 skill in each tree must have 10 points
    1 skill in each tree must have 5 points
    The last 10 points can be used as you see fit in either of those skill trees, with no other skills exceeding 5 points. In the case of Necro's you may use either mages or skeletons with only 1 point as a prereq going into the other skill.

    4. Armor you may wear one piece of armor, wich can be changed to a better source of the same area of armor as you go along. For example if you decide to only wear boots you may get and wear any pair of boots in the game. You just cannot switch from boots to body armor.

    5. All quests must be completed before fighting hell baal

    Rewards and signups: If there is any interest I would like it to be setup where we create a stash to store goods in. The goods would be any uniq's or greens found during the course of the tournament. If we find duplicates of the same uniq's or greens, we only stash one copy. Wich might mean finding and giving some nice gear to the winner. signups should be nice and neat
    (example
    SPF name: Smilts
    name: golden feather
    class: pally
    I'm open to anybodys ideas for making this thing work better. Also Im going to leave signups open till next friday sep 15. Good luck to anyone who joins.
    Also anyone who reads this I forgot english class in school so plz forgive all the typing errors.
     
  2. FreakII

    FreakII IncGamers Member

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    Rule 4 is a bit dodgy mate.
    I'll see what the others think.

    As for the rest sounds cool.
    You said Bows, what about xbows?
     
  3. Indemaijinj

    Indemaijinj IncGamers Member

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    The armour rule is punishing.

    Sure a Summoner could be fine as he would be able to spam minions all over the place and lock things down with Dim Vision, but a more exposed characters with less crowd control like a Paladin would have a severe disadvantage.

    The skill rule is fine though.
     
  4. FreakII

    FreakII IncGamers Member

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    So some agree, it's like building a naked char, and there are alot of older players here that does not have time for such builds, so I'm afraid the tourney won't have alot of competetors (heesh english is not my tale) umm so maybe revise rule 4. Just a thought ;)
     
  5. smilts

    smilts IncGamers Member

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    Any other ideas for 4 are welcome ill be on in about a hour
     
  6. Indemaijinj

    Indemaijinj IncGamers Member

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    I don't think we really need any more equipment restrictions besides untwinked, only Bow/Crossbows and no Widowmaker (not that I think anyone will find one).

    Also, is this supposed to be softcore or hardcore?
     
  7. OmegaDreg

    OmegaDreg IncGamers Member

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    skill wise, how do you come up with 80 points? 20 in 1 skill in each tree = 60, 10 in 1 skill for each tree = 30, and 5 in 1 skill for each skill tree = 15. Total of 105, not 80.
    Am i wrong in my math?
     
  8. Indemaijinj

    Indemaijinj IncGamers Member

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    If you read properly he said that you can only choose two skill trees.

    Two skills of 20 = 40
    Two skills of 10 = 20
    Two skills of 5 = 10

    This means you have 10 points left for prereqs and one point wonders.
    Missing out one skill tree is not all that damning.

    What I feel is missing here are some sort of restrictions in place to secure that builds actually use the bow/crossbow. To kill that is, by shooting arrows or bolts.

    You could easily imagine a character making a pretty standard Fury Wolf:

    20 in Fury
    10 in Lycanthropy
    5 in Werewolf.

    20 in Oak Sage or Heart of the Wolverine.

    I mean, this would surely ruin the spirit of the competition.


    Similarily let's imagine a Summoner Necromancer:

    20 in Raise Skeleton
    10 in Skeleton Mastery
    5 in Revive
    1 in Gumby
    1 in Golem Mastery
    1 in Mage
    1 in Summon Resist

    5 in Amp
    1 in Weaken
    10 in Decrepify
    1 in Terror
    20 in Dim Vision

    Sure he would wield a bow, which would be sorta novel, (he could make an Edge bow for the Thorns, Thorns/Amp/Revive is actually somewhat effective), but he would still mainly be a Summoner killing things with his minions, not his bow.

    And then there might be the possibility of a Blessed Hammer or FoH Paladin merely wielding a bow for the looks.

    All are allowed given the rules as they stand right now.


    I suggest restricting/banning following skills to make sure people will actually be shooting arrows.

    Paladin:
    The entire Combat tree.

    Druid:
    The entire Shapeshifting tree.

    Necromancer:
    Only 1 point in Raise Skeleton Warrior
     
  9. smilts

    smilts IncGamers Member

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    Thats a good point and my reason for asking for help or ideas how about banning those skills and making the armor full open. As mentioned it is untwinked so that should be more than enough. Bow or crossbow must be the main killing aspect of your build.
    EDIT: About the SC or HC I left it open but would suggest SC. If because of nothing else its one character so only one chance to die with HC.
     
  10. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

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    A barb anyone? :rolleyes:
    Anyway, only 1 pt in skele warrior might be a little tough, its you call, but maxing it might also bee to good, maybe a limit, but not at 1 pt.
    I am agains banning shape-tree, it might be a good idea, but I dont like it :grin: but sure, ban them.
    But if you are banning pala combat skills, I assume it's because hammerdins/fohers or whatever, if thats the reason, ban poinson and bone skills as well, at least teeth, spear, spirit, pnova. that should just be as a hammerdin, everyone should be forced to use a bow! so maybe ban elemental druids as well, but what druids are left then?
    sorry for messing it up ^^
     
  11. gotfocus

    gotfocus IncGamers Member

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    What druids are left? The coolest druids of them all; hunters.

    I love those dudes because, unlike a skelimancer, you have to participate in the battles to succeed. The wolves do ok at holding the badguys off but arent nearly as strong as skelys and the bear is just 1 minion and not good at crowd control.

    This almost requires the druid himself to provide some firepower. Anyways thats my opinion, but then again, I'm kinda biased because I really enjoyed playing a hunter.
     
  12. Indemaijinj

    Indemaijinj IncGamers Member

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    The reason I didn't suggest any restrictions on the Poison and Bone tree is the other Skill restriction.

    That you can only have three skills above level 1 in each tree. 1 at 20, 1 at 10 and 1 at 5. Anyone who have played Boners know that they depend heavily on synergies. All of which are located in the same tree.

    A Bone Spirit only synergised by a level 10 Bone Prison and a Level 5 Bonewall is not very impressive and you'll probably be better off shooting with a fast bow and Amp on the monsters. It could, however, be a reasonable Phys Immune killer.

    Contrast that to a Hammerdin that have his synergies and support skills spread over several skill trees.

    He could use his 20 Combat tree points in Hammer and his 10 and 20 Offensive tree points in Blessed Aim and Concentration respectively.
    Actually, now I think of it, this might not be that bad, but still. The Hammerdin would be better off than the boner.

    Similarily the FoH'er could put 20 in FoH, 20 in Conviction and 10 in Holy Shock and actually have decent damage.


    As for the Druid the problem is, that with the exception of Shockwave the Shapeshifting tree is entirely melee. Once you're shifted your bow is essentially a two-handed melee weapon. Not what I thought this tourney was about. You could easily make a decent Fury Wolf.

    As for Necromancer poison I think he should be allowed to use it as a way to stop monster regeneration. Without proper synergies it will not all that hot. The same is true about the various elemental skills in the Druid Elemental tree.

    That said perhaps this would be a better idea:

    Restricted/Banned skills:

    Paladin:
    Fist of the Heavens is restricted to max 5 points.

    Necromancer:
    Raise Skeleton Warrior is restricted to 1 point.
    You can use a maximum of 22 points in the poison tree.

    Druid:
    Fury and Fireclaws are banned, period.
    Feral Rage and Maul can have a maximum of 5 points spent in them.
    Hunger can solely be used as a prerequisite (to prevent Hungry Bears with Chu Ko Nu's or Demon Crossbows)


    This would allow druid to diversify into Hunter/Rabid Packleaders. Who shift briefly and infects the monsters and then steps back and peppers them with arrows.
    They could also use their Feral Rage or Maul as a buff.

    Still, I'm not completely sure I like it. Being able to sidestep the AR trouble all the other characters are doubtlessly going to have might be too much of a temptation.
     
  13. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

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    what about hammerdins, you suggest no restrict at all? -.-
     
  14. Indemaijinj

    Indemaijinj IncGamers Member

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    If it were me, I'd still prefer just to ban the entire Paladin Combat and the entire Shapeshift tree.

    Less confusing, more fair.
     
  15. smilts

    smilts IncGamers Member

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    Heres a revised restriction that will pretty much make making hammer's or foh'ers pointless and reduce the affectivness of the other class none arrow shooting builds.
    Pally: may not have more than 10 points in holybolt
    may not have more than 5 points in FOH, Hammers

    Necro: May not have more than 10 points in BSpirit, BSpear, Teeth, Skele mastery
    May not have more than 5 points in Raise skeleton, Skeleton mage

    Druids: must use bow as a ranged weapon
    May not have more than 10 points in Hurricane, Tornado, Twister, Armageddon, Volcano,Fissure


    Edit: If this is acceptable I will take any other revision ideas into account through tonight and then post an actual signup tourney thread tomorrow.
    The main idea of this tourney is to take a character with restricted skills use through to hell and to at least fight against baal in hell actually using a bow as a ranged weapon. I beleave with the restrictions trying to make a pure ele will be very weak. However using Psn tree skills would be a nice way to break PI's some and a decent use of skills at that. The plan was not to make a caster but as mentioned there was no actual restriction against such. Hopefuly current revisions will at least discourage the use of Hammer's and FOH.
    I would think that since no other weapon is allowed on the char and the bow(Xbow)must be used as a ranged weapon that would discourage the use of wereforms
     
  16. rickcarson

    rickcarson IncGamers Member

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    ... and hence you kill the only other form of Bow based Paladin with any appeal.

    I quite liked the idea of a Holy Bolt Paladin (Cleric?) using a bow as his weapon of choice for dealing with things other than Undead. But without the big synergies I guess it wouldn't have been that great anyway.

    I'd be keen, but convince me that this won't be a runaway victory for the Tesladins (since you've pretty much banned any other form of sensible Paladin).

    Heck, why not also ban also the castable ranged Druid spells?
     
  17. smilts

    smilts IncGamers Member

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    I'm drawing up the final document for the actual thread now the only two skills to be restricted for the paladin are FOH, and Hammers. They are restricted not banned in the final. Castable druid spells are also restricted not banned. the only banned skills Ive decided realy would ruine the idea are wereforms for druids.
     
  18. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    Ok, this is how I read it:
    You must use a bow to attack them with.
    Thus:

    Druid:
    No shapeshifting, as it becomes a 2 handed weapon.
    No elementals, as they require good synergies and the restrictions mean you can't level up the synergies efficiently. Plus, they aren't using the bow to do damage.
    Summoning you'd want 20 spirit, and that leaves the other skills weaker.
    To me, druid seems out of the question as skills go, but with a slight advantage over barb/necro. (see note1)

    Necro:
    Few summonings, making skeletons very weak. No wands/shrunken heads to help out the +skelly skills.
    No poison/bone as they require good synergies within the same tree. Corpse explosion is the exception, although maybe this isn't using the bow to kill anything.
    Curses? Really, who wants to put 20/10/5 into 3 curses?
    To me, necro's are out as well (skillwise) (note1)

    Barb:
    A barb with a bow? The Combat tree is worthless (bow)
    The Masteries are mostly worthless. Lvl 20 increased speed anyone?
    And warcries - 20/10/5. Not a lot can be done here.
    To me, barbs are out skillwise (note1)

    Pally:
    A ranger's all I can think of, but I haven't played one. Tesladin would dominate the tourney IMO.

    NOTE1: With these 3 chars, the skills to me seem that they would have very little impact on the abilities of the character. The druid would have the advantage of a damage spirit, but other than that, it seems like they'd all be equally as weak just shooting arrows.
    The druid only has 1 tree to use though: summoning, as the other 2 aren't considered using a bow with him and elementals would probably be fairly weak.
    The other chars are greatly weakened, and have little ability to get increased damage/AR.

    To me, it's a great idea and would be fun, but it would be difficult to work out to have them all equal. The tesladin (and maybe freezadin for variety? :) ) would dominate the game, with druid spirit coming 2nd. The other two I think are almost unplayable.

    Just my opinion, but you'd have to convince me too that the chars would be equal without making them weak.

    EDIT: I'll have a read of the final one, but I can see one class dominating. GL though. Hope it works out!
     
  19. smilts

    smilts IncGamers Member

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    It might would be easier to make tham all weak rather than try to make them all stronger.
    EDIT: the only way to make it fair would be to eliminate paladin all three elemental auras make a pally ranger very strong.
    I truly believe that with the use of some summons and either psn or bone prison(wall) tactics, that necros may be the next strongest rather than druids.

    Revised use of druid skills would allow for 40 pnts in summons and 40 points in ele easy to use to get a partially syned hurri and cyclone armor rolling. That and 20 in either HOW or OS, 10 in grizzly or wolves 5 in the other, then with prereqs leaves 3 for a last skill, not much but some good distractions

    The only worry I have is for Barbs. An exception to let them choose to use 2 trees but in any order they wish as long as there are skills in each and no more than 80 skills total, just like the others. Unlike Druids who have pets to help distract and spirits to boost life or damage, or even necros who can choose to trap enemys in a certain erea for easy pickings. the only help a barb gets is to use grim ward to chase monsters away.
    So any other thoughts welcome.
     
  20. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    It would be easier to make them weaker, but then people may not join because they know they won't be viable in early hell or late NM. Also, the tesladin still seems to have an advantage as it has an attack that increases his damage. Druid too has his HoW.
    Sorry if that seemed harsh as it wasn't intended that way. I can't see any of the classes being even though, and there'd be a dominance in pally's. Maybe instead of a race to Baal, it should be a style competition or [insert something incredibly awesome which only 1 in a million would think of here.]
    Just my thoughts, and I'd help you out if I could, but I can't see a solution. I hope someone does though. :sad:
     

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