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Boycott Demon Hunters!

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Flux, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Flux Submitted a news story

    Boycott Demon Hunters!

    [caption id="attachment_383468" align="alignright" width="232"][​IMG] Item Sets: PTR start vs. finish[/caption]A fan infuriated by the item changes on the PTR for patch 2.2 has has ordered a strategy both illogical and counter-productive, urging players to boycott Demon Hunters! Let's see his argument:

    Its Time To BoyCott The Dev's Bread & Butter Class

    Seriously! I hate to say this and even Suggest it but We all know that DH's are the Bread and Butter In this game. DH is the only class that Doesn't get hit with Nerfs and since the Developers Let Other Classes Join their DPS Level then it time for the Players to Prove a Point.

    You have to ask yourself do you want to play "Demon Hunter 3" or do you want to play "Diablo 3" Look at the threads! these prove my point:



    Tyvalir: Hey all, just a quick reminder:

    One of the main reasons we have a PTR is that it provides us a place to test ideas and changes that are still in development in an environment that approximates the live game as well as seek feedback from our community.

    This process only works, however, if the feedback we receive is shared in earnest and with the goal of improving the game experience. This post and its core suggestion works against both those concepts. Not only is it disingenuous to encourage your fellow players to falsify their feedback, but it works to diminish the value of said feedback and its potential impact on the design process. For everyone. =/

    In the future, please try to keep your feedback-related discussions focused on specific issues you're facing, providing as much detail as you're able. And, please, keep it honest. Any additional threads that incite others to post spurious claims or anecdotes will be locked or removed.[source]http://diablo.incgamers.com/blizzard-tracker/devthread/us/16717252030[/source]


    I didn't follow every link provided, but all that I looked at were fairly generic, "my class should be more awesome" complaints. Imagine that, complaints about something in Diablo 3 in the B.net forums. Unpossibru! Also, consider that when players do boycott a class, the devs take that as evidence that class needs a buff and they give them new and awesome items. Witness the comments in this week's tavern talk about how they saw the Monk go from one of the least played to the most played classes in 2.1, thanks mostly to the lure of the Gungdo Gear bracers. So yes, speaking as a DH fan... everyone plz boycott!

    Logical consequences of a boycott aside, let's look at the larger issue and the fan passion. (And ignore DH fans like me who are annoyed by changes to Natalya's during testing, and hate that the new DH set is arbitrarily limited to work with just Multishot.) The devs addressed the big picture on the Tavern Talk, stating pretty strongly that, (paraphrasing Wyatt, but check the transcript or watch it around the 1:12 point), but basically, "if you can't handle big changes in balance over the course of patch testing, don't follow the PTR."

    They were arguable ham-handed about it this time, with the Barb's IK set 6P bonus granting a ginormous +500% damage, which was then trimmed all the way down to +100% in the next patch. (Leaving the Barb very strong, but not godlike.) Which caught players' eyes. The Wizard's Tal Rasha set also got nerfed from the start of the PTR, but those two sets and all the other vanilla sets are still considerably more powerful in v2.3 than they are currently.

    Do you guys think the devs know more on long term balance matters than fans can see in just a few weeks of testing? Does anyone really think that one class is specially favored, for whatever reason? (And yes, most of us thought this about the Barb back in D3v, when spin2win was obviously the strongest build for about 16 months straight.)

    And should the PTR be handled differently, with more gradual tweaks and maybe even a dev plan to start out weak and then steadily buff sets and items over the course of the PTR, so players would get a "getting stronger" warm feeling in their tummies, rather than a "it was expectation, now it's reality" reaction to a big nerf late in any PTR testing cycle?

    Click through to review some of the visual literature on PTR item set expectations vs. live patch reality:



    [gallery link="file" ids="383462,383463,383464,383465,383466,383467"]
    Continue reading the Original Story
     
  2. Turbojugend

    Turbojugend IncGamers Member

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    off topic, but @ pics = lolz
    on topic, i like changes because otherwise you'd be playing one style forever and that would be boring.
    change is good
     
  3. Timesink

    Timesink IncGamers Member

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    I don't think one class is favored. I think the problem is Blizzard looks at the whole game and "serious" players look at one thing: group, high-level GRs. To them that is the only thing that matters. Solo play, group rifts, bounties, ubers...none of that exists in the game in their mind.

    Current 4-person GR meta is a zDPS WD locking everything down, probably a crusader (not sure, don't play group grifts), and 2xDH or maybe 3xDH. I think someone posted on the PTR forums that in the top 100 (1000?) 4-man GR groups with the best times there isn't a single wizard. Why? Because wizards do a fraction of the damage a DH can under those circumstances. DH's are fragile but being fragile doesn't matter if a WD is perma-CCing everything for you.

    Blizzard doesn't care really. For one, they said in the tavern talk they plan on eliminating perma CC. If group GRs become about toughness a little then DH representation will drop a little. Two, Blizzard says they don't look at leaderboards to balance classes. Which means they are fine if the class composition of 4-man GR50+ isn't even across classes.

    Personally I don't care much either. I just want builds that are fun and viable. Do I think it is a little silly that a single cluster arrow with 5 sentries out can do more damage than an entire wizard (that's the claim anyway)? Sure. It is a little annoying to group with 2xDH as a wizard and have them blow up the screen before I can cast. I'd like the classes to be closer in damage but they are never going to be balanced.
     
  4. LukDeRiff

    LukDeRiff IncGamers Member

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    It is certainly a tricky topic. I think it is better to err on the side of making things too powerful because then people acutally test them, the devs see how players approach the set mechanics and the likeliness that bugs will be found increases dramatically.

    On the state of the DH, there seems to be some bug with Strafe - Icy Trail. Regardless after some testing the damage seems very, very high. I am not sure whether the Devs actually know more about the state of balance but I am not sure how high of a priority balance within class and overall class balance is for them. Wyatt also said something like "we do not tune the game around the leaderboards" which stunned me because what else would you balance around ?

    There is certainly some class imbalance but I think it is widely blown out proportion (apart from the poor WDs). DH, Barb and Monk seem to be relatively even, with wizard and crusader being roughly two GRift levels behind. We will see what 2.2 brings after people got a couple of months in and really testet things and min maxed everything.
     
  5. RobotWizard

    RobotWizard IncGamers Member

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    To perfectly balance all classes, you would have to homogenize them and make them all similar.

    For an example of this, Barbs now have a "cheat death" passive, and in fact, all the cheat death passives are becoming more similar to each other. Time was, if you saw a hardcore Barbarian running around, you knew that guy was HARDxCORE because they didn't have a cheat death passive.

    The alternative, which is keeping the classes very distinct and still balancing them, requires a lot more work and a lot more minute adjustments. In Starcraft, they are able to achieve this (more or less) and their patches adjust things in 100ths of a second. In D3, they're making HUGE changes every patch, so we're nowhere near zeroing in on "perfectly balanced" classes. I don't see this ever getting better, either, since D3's development style is to keep putting out new items and updating the sets. To fine tune for balance, they would have to effectively freeze these big changes and just do small tweaks, which would be boring for most players.
     
  6. RobotWizard

    RobotWizard IncGamers Member

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    I think what's much more likely is that they'll try to keep the classes within a few GR levels of each other (in solo), but that there will always be one class that outshines the others. As they keep making changes, that honor will jump from class to class.
     
  7. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    Hahaha. Post of the Decade.

    After they nerfed the Demon Hunter, What She Did next will Melt Your Heart!
     
  8. sneakytails

    sneakytails IncGamers Member

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    Wizbear! (noun) : A wizard who does less damage than a volley of cluster arrows. (typically, the loaded for bear rune)
     
  9. Darkmere

    Darkmere IncGamers Member

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    Yeah everyone just sit tight for a few months until Blizz decides someone else should be top dog for a while, then play that. It's a constant cycle - twinkle toes barbs, CM wizards, jade docs, pony show saders, now M6 is tops. eventually someone else will get the arbitrary boon, it's only a matter of time.
     
  10. Timesink

    Timesink IncGamers Member

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    Agreed. I think the latest fountain of tears on the PTR forums is because DH has been tops for about a year and now another 4 months or so with S3. The maturity level of the complaints is laughable but it is grounded in a little bit of truth.
     
  11. dezzo

    dezzo IncGamers Member

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    plenty of PTR stuff are port over to live with very little iteration after the last few tweaks even if they are unpopular.

    the op doesn't seem to understand that the recent m6 changes is a nerf. you need kridershot to finish the m6 build now when in the past you could just use a crafted legendary and still able to clear high tier rifts.

    i didn't really like the change to m6 but understood that it is required because the old m6 "was too easy".
     
  12. ADest

    ADest IncGamers Member

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    What's sad is the Devs come off just as clueless as random B.Net OP. The WD and Wizard were supposed to be greatly boosted in this patch, and I had big hopes for Delsiere's. Don't expect any real progress in this game until after the last expansion. I expect the coming of the next expansion will greatly change the meta from where it is now just like how RoS ended the days of whirlwind barbs, vacuum Monks and Crit mass Wizards running MP10 Crypt forever and ever to hit Paragon 100...
     
  13. HFDOH

    HFDOH IncGamers Member

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    Boycott DH this is the most ridiculous comment I have seen here until today, what's next ?? boycotting Crusaderen because they rush through everything and everybody.
    Is simply too far out
     
  14. ExTiNcT SaNitY

    ExTiNcT SaNitY IncGamers Member

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    DHs are considered OP probably because they start out very powerful, doesn't face tank. They can just throw up their Towers and spam, other classes needs really really good gear in order to both survive and dish out decent damage, but Imo Barbs win in the end, when they get the gear, get the Paragon etc, then they're a freggin powerhouse of destruction and least not speed.
     
  15. Steven Hazani

    Steven Hazani IncGamers Member

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    Tal set was still a weaker unwieldy DH even before it was nerfed hard (and the Meteor boots nerf mattered more anyways).
     
  16. mjinspace

    mjinspace IncGamers Member

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    Clearly the original poster didn't live through the hell of playing DHs during D3v...
     
  17. mjinspace

    mjinspace IncGamers Member

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    I am not sure what planet you were on...
     
  18. mjinspace

    mjinspace IncGamers Member

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    Actually, I've switch my opinion.

    PLEASE! Everyone else (but me, of course) stop playing DH right now! That way Blizz will think the class is under powered and buff them even more!

    kthnxbye
     
  19. mortuus

    mortuus Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    wizards are already op lol.
     

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