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Bowcomparison for pitrunning Strafeazon

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by sasja, Feb 19, 2004.

  1. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    Bowcomparison for pitrunning Strafeazon

    I've made a pure Strafeazon, especially tailored for the upgraded Buriza, to mf in the pits. She works quite well, but even with maxed Penetrate, her chance to hit is too low in full mf - in part, of course, because her dex suffers from the str req of the Colossus Crossbow.

    A little late, I then decided to do some number crunching to see which bow is the best for an mf-zon in the pits to decide the best bow to build a pitrunning Strafeazon around - would the extra damage of an upgraded GSA with its inherent AR bonus beat the ITD Eaglehorn, or would the extra strength requirement make it less desirable, how much do the +stats on BotD really mean etc. An mf bowazon doesn't wear a lot of ias or other damage enhancers that bowazons normally get to wear - instead she'll stock up on mf gear. That means it's actually easier to compare the bows. A usual setup would include the +skills from shako and Skullder's and possibly ias from Goldwrap (another setup would be tal's armor, helm and belt) and perhaps Stealskull. So the setup to test would be about +3 skills, with 0, 10 or 20% ias from gear. I thought I'd share my findings with you, because even though they are for a special case, a lot of people seem interested in that special case.

    This is the ranking at clvl 85, if Goldwrap is your only ias source - but with the few mentioned exceptions, the order is the same for 0 or 20% and for higher levels than clvl 85 - the percentage is the bow's damage output as a percentage of the best bow's damage.
    1. 100% Breath of the Dying Crusader Bow
    2. 79% Windforce (shael - 77% if clean)
    3. 77% Goldstrike Arch (shael or clean)
    4. 69% Upgraded Goldstrike Arch (shael or clean)
    5. 69% Eaglehorn (shael - 59% if clean)
    6. 59% Upgraded Riphook (shael) (if you have 0 ias from gear, though, this is the worst bow)
    7. 59% Buriza (shael - 52% if clean) (overtakes Riphook at clvl 87)
    8. 50% Upgraded Buriza (shael - 44% if clean)
    9. 46% Upgraded Witchwild String (2xshael)

    As you can see, I've just about picked the worst possible bow for the purpose, though of course I'm not counting the saved points in Pierce. Among the affordable bows, Goldstrike is the best, getting more ahead of Eagle by the level (67% to Eagle versus 78% to GSA at level 95). A perfect GSA is quite rare, though.

    I was frankly so surprised that BotD was better than wf, especially this much better, that I checked the numbers at character level 99 with 80% ias from other gear (enough to make a shael'ed wf hit 9/2), and even though wf gains on it, BotD is still in the lead (wf has 93% of BotD's damage output). What really hurts the wf is low AR. The str, dex and vit bonus on BotD plus lower requirements and the lower strength requirement of the crusader means that you have 111 more points in dex on a BotD Strafeazon, which increases your damage nicely but especially does wonders for your chance to hit. The raw damage output of the wf is 4% higher than BotD, so if you could get the AR to match wf would be in the lead. However, in my mind this shows that BotD bows are very worth making and in fact beats all unique bows.

    Those were the results, now for the small print.

    Assumptions and limitations
    • As I would want to wear as much mf as possible, I only ran the numbers with 0% ias from gear, 10% (Goldwrap) and 20% (Goldwrap+Stealskull).
    • No AR, dex or str bonus from gear is included as the best mf gear doesn't have much of these - Nagel rings have a little AR, shako a little of all stats and War travs +10 str. I tried to rerun the numbers with these added, and they didn't change the results significantly.
    • Vitality is supposed to be at 100 (a comfortable place, imo)
    • The Strafeazon's strength is assumed to be exactly the strength required for the bow
    • Every other statpoint is supposed to go into dex, including the Lam Essen's quest points
    • The creature I took as representative of pitruns is the Bone Warrior (monster level 83, defense rating 1616 - numbers from d2data - if they're wrong, I'd of course like to know).
    • All bows have been assumed to have perfect stats.
    • Extra damage to undead/demons has been counted at half value, as it's about half and half in the pits, meaning for instance that GSA has been counted as having 450% ed (250% ed + 200% to both demons and undead)
    • Next-delay has not been considered
    • Strafe and Penetrate have been assumed to have skill level 23 (maxed plus shako and Skullder's)
    • To give WWS a bonus for the 2% chance of amp, I've multiplied its damage with 1.3 (a bit arbitrary, and probably too much, but as it doesn't do well anyway, it's not that important).
    • I haven't looked at which other nice mods a bow may have - pierce, knockback, etc. - this is purely for damage output and hit rate.

    To read the tables:
    • Read commas as points in the tables
    • bs=bull s.. no, I mean base speed
    • bd=dase damage
    • sreq=strength requirement
    • cth=chance to hit
    • as=attack speed
    • ss=Strafe speed
    • dps=damage per second
    • rdps=real dps, or dps*cth/100
    • %=the bow's damage output as a percentage of the best bow's damage output
    • the five last rows concern a case where you have 80% ias from gear (this was actuall only to compare BotD with wf at higher ias - not really relevant here)
    • the five rows just before that concern a case where you have 20% ias from gear
    • the five rows just before that concern a case where you have 10% ias from gear
    • the five rows just before that concern a case where you don't have any ias from gear
    • the first table is for clvl 85, the next for clvl 90 and the last for clvl 95 - most pitrunners will probably be around these levels
    • some random spaces have been inserted in some of the columns - they're not in my text, so I don't know how to get rid of them - however, if you just squeeze all numbers in one column together, they should form the right number.

    Used formulae:

    AR = (dex * 5 - 35 + 5) * (1 + Penetrate bonus)
    damage = base damage * (1 + enhanced damage + (possible max dam / 2)) * (dex / 100 + Strafe enhanced damage bonus + 1) * 0.75
    chance to hit = min (100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * clvl/(clvl + monster lvl), 95)

    Code:
    clvl 85
    			bs	bd	sreq	dex	ias	ed	dam	AR	cth	as	ss	dps	rdps	%	as	ss	dps	rdps	%	as	ss	dps	rdps	%	as	ss	dps	rdps	%
    extra ias										0	0				10	10				20	20				80	80			
    wf			10	39	134	271	20	250	981	4703	75	13	3	6131	4598	75	12	3	6288	4716	77	11	3	6453	4839	79	9	3	6812	5109	61
    wf shael		10	39	134	271	40	250	981	4703	75	11	3	6453	4839	79	11	3	6453	4839	79	10	3	6628	4971	81	9	2	9083	6812	81
    BotD crusader		10	39	78	382	60	500	1047	6940	86	10	3	7074	6083	100	10	3	7074	6083	100	10	3	7074	6083	100	9	2	9694	8336	100
    Goldstrike		10	30	95	305	50	450	836	7549	83	11	3	5500	4565	75	10	3	5648	4687	77	10	3	5648	4687	77	9	2	7740	6424	77
    Goldstrike shael	10	30	95	305	70	450	836	7549	83	10	3	5648	4687	77	10	3	5648	4687	77	9	3	5805	4818	79	9	2	7740	6424	77
    Upgr Goldstrike		10	39	134	266	50	450	773	6565	81	11	3	5085	4118	67	10	3	5222	4229	69	10	3	5222	4229	69	9	2	7157	5797	69
    Upgr Goldstrike shael	10	39	134	266	70	450	773	6565	81	10	3	5222	4229	69	10	3	5222	4229	69	9	3	5368	4348	71	9	2	7157	5797	69
    Buri			10	44	110	290	80	200	845	5041	76	14	4	4225	3211	52	14	4	4225	3211	52	13	3,5	4747	3607	59	13	3,5	4747	3607	43
    Buri shael		10	44	110	290	100	200	845	5041	76	13	3,5	4747	3607	59	13	3,5	4747	3607	59	13	3,5	4747	3607	59	13	3,5	4747	3607	43
    Upgr Buri		10	61,5	163	237	80	200	756	4100	72	14	4	3780	2721	44	14	4	3780	2721	44	13	3,5	4247	3057	50	13	3,5	4247	3057	36
    Upgr Buri shael		10	61,5	163	237	100	200	756	4100	72	13	3,5	4247	3057	50	13	3,5	4247	3057	50	13	3,5	4247	3057	50	13	3,5	4247	3057	36
    Eagle			10	39	97	328	0	200	694	7526	95	15	4	3401	3230	53	13	4	3540	3363	55	13	3	4337	4120	67	13	3	4337	4120	49
    Eagle shael		10	39	97	328	20	200	694	7526	95	13	3	4337	4120	67	12	3	4448	4225	69	12	3	4448	4225	69	12	3	4448	4225	50
    Upgr Riphook shael	-10	31	76	324	50	220	504	5644	78	9	3	3500	2730	44	9	2	4666	3639	59	9	2	4666	3639	59	8	2	4846	3779	45
    Upgr WWS shaelshael	0	36,5	89	311	40	170	540	5413	77	10	3	3648	2808	46	10	3	3648	2808	46	9	3	3750	2887	47	8	2	5192	3997	47
    
    
    clvl 90
    			bs	bd	sreq	dex	ias	ed	dam	AR	cth	as	ss	dps	rdps	%	as	ss	dps	rdps	%	as	ss	dps	rdps	%	as	ss	dps	rdps	%
    extra ias										0	0				10	10				20	20				80	80			
    wf			10	39	134	296	20	250	1062	5147	79	13	3	6637	5243	79	12	3	6807	5377	81	11	3	6986	5518	84	9	3	7375	5826	64
    wf shael		10	39	134	296	40	250	1062	5147	79	11	3	6986	5518	84	11	3	6986	5518	84	10	3	7175	5668	86	9	2	9833	7768	86
    BotD crusader		10	39	78	407	60	500	1091	7384	89	10	3	7371	6560	100	10	3	7371	6560	100	10	3	7371	6560	100	9	2	10101	8989	100
    Goldstrike		10	30	95	330	50	450	876	8181	86	11	3	5763	4956	75	10	3	5918	5089	77	10	3	5918	5089	77	9	2	8111	6975	77
    Goldstrike shael	10	30	95	330	70	450	876	8181	86	10	3	5918	5089	77	10	3	5918	5089	77	9	3	6083	5231	79	9	2	8111	6975	77
    Upgr Goldstrike		10	39	134	291	50	450	814	7196	84	11	3	5355	4498	68	10	3	5500	4620	70	10	3	5500	4620	70	9	2	7537	6331	70
    Upgr Goldstrike shael	10	39	134	291	70	450	814	7196	84	10	3	5500	4620	70	10	3	5500	4620	70	9	3	5652	4747	72	9	2	7537	6331	70
    Buri			10	44	110	315	80	200	912	5484	80	14	4	4560	3648	55	14	4	4560	3648	55	13	3,5	5123	4098	62	13	3,5	5123	4098	45
    Buri shael		10	44	110	315	100	200	912	5484	80	13	3,5	5123	4098	62	13	3,5	5123	4098	62	13	3,5	5123	4098	62	13	3,5	5123	4098	45
    Upgr Buri		10	61,5	163	262	80	200	821	4544	76	14	4	4105	3119	47	14	4	4105	3119	47	13	3,5	4612	3505	53	13	3,5	4612	3505	38
    Upgr Buri shael		10	61,5	163	262	100	200	821	4544	76	13	3,5	4612	3505	53	13	3,5	4612	3505	53	13	3,5	4612	3505	53	13	3,5	4612	3505	38
    Eagle			10	39	97	353	0	200	739	8076	95	15	4	3622	3440	52	13	4	3770	3581	54	13	3	4618	4387	66	13	3	4618	4387	48
    Eagle shael		10	39	97	353	20	200	739	8076	95	13	3	4618	4387	66	12	3	4737	4500	68	12	3	4737	4500	68	12	3	4737	4500	50
    Upgr Riphook shael	-10	31	76	349	50	220	527	6088	82	9	3	3659	3000	45	9	2	4879	4000	60	9	2	4879	4000	60	8	2	5067	4154	46
    Upgr WWS shaelshael	0	36,5	89	336	40	170	565	5857	81	10	3	3817	3091	47	10	3	3817	3091	47	9	3	3923	3177	48	8	2	5432	4399	48
    
    clvl 95
    			bs	bd	sreq	dex	ias	ed	dam	AR	cth	as	ss	dps	rdps	%	as	ss	dps	rdps	%	as	ss	dps	rdps	%	as	ss	dps	rdps	%
    extra ias										0	0				10	10				20	20				80	80			
    wf			10	39	134	321	20	250	1145	5591	82	13	3	7156	5867	83	12	3	7339	6017	85	11	3	7532	6176	87	9	3	7951	6519	67
    wf shael		10	39	134	321	40	250	1145	5591	82	11	3	7532	6176	87	11	3	7532	6176	87	10	3	7736	6343	89	9	2	10601	8692	89
    BotD crusader		10	39	78	432	60	500	1135	7827	92	10	3	7668	7054	100	10	3	7668	7054	100	10	3	7668	7054	100	9	2	10509	9668	100
    Goldstrike		10	30	95	355	50	450	916	8812	90	11	3	6026	5423	76	10	3	6189	5570	78	10	3	6189	5570	78	9	2	8481	7632	78
    Goldstrike shael	10	30	95	355	70	450	916	8812	90	10	3	6189	5570	78	10	3	6189	5570	78	9	3	6361	5724	81	9	2	8481	7632	78
    Upgr Goldstrike		10	39	134	316	50	450	854	7827	**	11	3	5618	4943	70	10	3	5770	5077	71	10	3	5770	5077	71	9	2	7907	6958	71
    Upgr Goldstrike shael	10	39	134	316	70	450	854	7827	**	10	3	5770	5077	71	10	3	5770	5077	71	9	3	5930	5218	73	9	2	7907	6958	71
    Buri			10	44	110	340	80	200	981	5928	83	14	4	4905	4071	57	14	4	4905	4071	57	13	3,5	5511	4574	64	13	3,5	5511	4574	47
    Buri shael		10	44	110	340	100	200	981	5928	83	13	3,5	5511	4574	64	13	3,5	5511	4574	64	13	3,5	5511	4574	64	13	3,5	5511	4574	47
    Upgr Buri		10	61,5	163	287	80	200	887	4987	80	14	4	4435	3548	50	14	4	4435	3548	50	13	3,5	4983	3986	56	13	3,5	4983	3986	41
    Upgr Buri shael		10	61,5	163	287	100	200	887	4987	80	13	3,5	4983	3986	56	13	3,5	4983	3986	56	13	3,5	4983	3986	56	13	3,5	4983	3986	41
    Eagle			10	39	97	378	0	200	786	8626	95	15	4	3852	3659	51	13	4	4010	3809	53	13	3	4912	4666	66	13	3	4912	4666	48
    Eagle shael		10	39	97	378	20	200	786	8626	95	13	3	4912	4666	66	12	3	5038	4786	67	12	3	5038	4786	67	12	3	5038	4786	49
    Upgr Riphook shael	-10	31	76	374	50	220	551	6532	85	9	3	3826	3252	46	9	2	5101	4335	61	9	2	5101	4335	61	8	2	5298	4503	46
    Upgr WWS shaelshael	0	36,5	89	361	40	170	591	6301	84	10	3	3993	3354	47	10	3	3993	3354	47	9	3	4104	3447	48	8	2	5682	4772	49
    
    
    
    Wow, it took almost as long to publish these results as it took to make them - hope you enjoy :)
     
  2. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    An excellent and very interesting comparison. Thank you very much

    I upgraded my 248% Goldstrike assuming that would significantly increase damage output, which it sure did. But I sort of cheated with the strength by using a Lionheart Armour and Wartravs to give me a lot (35 anyway) of the extra strength for "free" ... of course mf suffers but I dont have a Skullers anyway :lol:



    Incidently, I think that the level of a Bone Warrior in the Pit will be level 85, the level 83 refers to when it is in the Glacial Trail perhaps. Not a big difference and the relative values would not change much if I'm right.
     
  3. Frenzied Bovine

    Frenzied Bovine IncGamers Member

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    Did you take Deadly Strike into account on the WWS?

    (And Amp Damage, though i'm not sure how)
     
  4. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    Thank you :)

    Where do you get the lvl 85 from? Whether you click Bone Warrior from act 1 or act 5 you get to the same page stating lvl 83. Wouldn't it also be remarkable if the same monster arrived later on at a lower level?
    No, I didn't - I didn't quite know how to go about it, since a non-WWS Strafeazon would probably have CS at a higher level. So in the end, I decided that it was comparable to the piercing on Buriza - it saves you skill points, but doesn't figure in the numbers (should have written it in the limitations part - well, you always forget something). I multiplied the WWS's damage with 1.3 to account for the amp, though. A bit random, but as you say, it's quite hard to figure out how to include it fairly. If you think a larger factor is due, as the Deadly Strike % will be higher than the CS from skill, you can factor that in.
     
  5. Pintail-Hunter

    Pintail-Hunter IncGamers Member

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    "To give WWS a bonus for the 2% chance of amp, I've multiplied its damage with 1.3 (a bit arbitrary, and probably too much, but as it doesn't do well anyway, it's not that important)."

    Nice Work.

    I wonder how a upgraded Lycanders would fare in this comparison.

    Even though BotD looks like the better damage at mid85 to 90 levels I think the knockback on the bow makes it a more attractive option than BotD
     
  6. iceball_aarf

    iceball_aarf IncGamers Member

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    Hmm you forgot the next delay issue... that is what makes so hard to compare bows with strafe....


    Edit: just saw that you mentioned yourself that you didn´t take it into consideration, without taking it in consideration your whole comparison is flawed, sorry but the 9/2 wf will hit the first arrow, miss a couple, hit again, and that is about how it could start to act, and that would give it a seriously smaller dmg output... and well, most strafeazon´s i have seen go 20 strafe+pre reqs, 17 valk, 1 into each other passive&magic, and 20 cold arrow + 20 freezing arrows, available by char lvl 79, at that lvl with the +3skills you suggest + 1 from annihilus an amazon will have 42% CS (multiply all dmg by 1.42) but a WWS amazon will also get 79% deadly strike for a total of 87% chance to do 2*dmg, it still won´t match a top of the line bow, but it ceratinly fares better than the spot it currently occupies...
     
  7. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    Thanks :)
    Yes, I guess Lycander's deserves a mention.

    The knockback is a very nice feature of the Windforce, but remember that BotD also has a few extra tricks: pmh, poison nova (if you're not suffering from a slow connection) and life leech.
    It's true that the next-delay is not touched upon, but as you can see from the tables, all the bows (except Riphook or when reading the 80% ias column) actually fall in the same next delay cateory, so to speak - if one Strafe arrow hits, the next will miss, but the one after will have a chance to hit again (that covers a Strafe rate of 3-4). So the next-delay is the same disadvantage for all the bows. If you are looking at the 80% ias columns, the same is almost true - all except the Buriza and Eagle have a 2 frames Strafe.
     
  8. iceball_aarf

    iceball_aarf IncGamers Member

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    That is only because you choose the sockets that way... there are other options, for example 2 +18 min dmg jewels on the WWS could make it *slower* but *more dmging*... that is what i am trying to say, it does make a difference...


    Edit: i would like to continue my WWS example:
    2*+18min dmg jewels make this bow hit 125-126 dmg, 125.5 avg

    damage = base damage * (1 + enhanced damage + (possible max dam / 2)) * (dex / 100 + Strafe enhanced damage bonus + 1) * 0.75

    lets see using only +3all skills and taking into account the DS:

    dmg= 125.5*(dex/100+strafe enhanced dmg +1)*0.75*(1+ 38/100CS + [100-38]*79/100 DS)
    dmg= 125.5*(311/100 + 115/100 +1) *.75 * (1.86)
    dmg= 920.**
     
  9. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    Even with no IAS and the slowest bow possible, you can't Strafe slower than 4 frames with a bow (only crossbows can be that slow) which is in exactly the same category as 3 - if one hits the next will miss. And as WWS has a base speed of [0] it can't Strafe any slower than 3 frames. So really, no, it doesn't make a difference.
     
  10. iceball_aarf

    iceball_aarf IncGamers Member

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    I editted and added an example with WWS... there are differences.

    Edit again: also with knockback and slow bows you can add *about 1 frame* to the time it takes for the next arrow to hit.
     
  11. FattyMcGee

    FattyMcGee IncGamers Member

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    -too bad you didn't take into account using a LoH... that would have given the other bows a boost in dmg/sec against the GSA, and most likely that's what any bowazon will be using in the pit.

    -I'm pretty positive it's more than just 1/2 of all monsters in the pits that are demons/undead.

    -the reason why the Bone Warrior is actually lvl 85 in the pit, yet you saw it as lvl 83 is because 83 is the base mlvl in hell act1, but in 1.10 the monster's mlvl is affected by the area which they are in... that is, the alvl supersedes the mlvl.

    --fatty
     
  12. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    I haven't taken the Deadly Strike into account, as the higher level CS that most non-WWS Strafeazons will have will partly compensate for this.

    Let me repeat: the next-delay issue is not a problem with the shael socketed WWS. WWS with 2 shaels Strafes at a 3 frames rate - exactly the same as without. So whether you have knock-back or not, you will have exactly the same next-delay problems with or without the shaels.

    About other socket options: Of course, this bowcomparison is very limited, countless possibilities will not have been touched upon. In your example you count the Critical Strike, which is not counted elsewhere, making the result incomparable to the others - and the reason I haven't included it is exactly, as said, that a non-WWS Strafeazon would have a higher CS than a WWS Strafeazon.
    I'm sure Chancies are popular, too.

    Me, too. As I said half of each.

    Well, I did look the concrete monster up, not just the mlvl in act 1. You're very likely right, but I'd love a reference on this.
     
  13. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    <double post deleted>
     
  14. iceball_aarf

    iceball_aarf IncGamers Member

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    It isn´t 18/2 *2, look, +18 min *2 into WWS adds +36 min dmg, it takes min dmg to 125, but 125 is higher than the max dmg of wws thus the max becomes 125+1= 126, the bow does 125-126= 125.5 avg... really try it out yourself and double check the calcs...

    About having a higher lvl CS:
    Not true, you are making a bowazon that can only deal phys dmg? what do you expect to do with immunes??... and you also want to have max penetrate, remember that, the zon i proposed is the most standard strafer i have seen, then you will have to choose to go penetrate OR CS, not possible to max both really... if you go max penetrate you will end up the zon by about lvl 99... i see that you double checked the calcs and took the actual dmg of the upgraded WWS out of the answer :)


    Amp dmg: well, it´s 2% chance to remove 100% phys resist of the target, unless it is immune, in that case it will remove 20% of it´s resists... to account it as 2% chance to deal double dmg just multiply the final dmg i calculated by 1.02, small indeed....
     
  15. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    If you want to compare your numbers to the others in the table, you shoudn't count the CS, nor the DS.

    Well, thanks a lot for the appreciation of the effort it is to make such a table. I'm ready to applaud you if I see a complete table from you with all possible socketables where you've tried out every one of the combinations out yourself!
    As there are no PIs in the pits, I'd recommend a pure Strafeazon. PIs in the game can be dealt with using Atma's or WWS on switch, or just by questing in a group.
     
  16. iceball_aarf

    iceball_aarf IncGamers Member

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    hush hush, don´t be so harsh, i meant double check the calcs that YOU DELETED... i had time to see them, you know?, in those calcs you where doing a wrong assumption of how to handle the +min dmg of the sockets of the WWS, and thx for the idea ;)
     
  17. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    As you know 1.10 moved monsters around and some appear as guest monsters in other areas with a level based on the area they are in rather than the area they originated from. The Pit is a level 85 area while the Glacial Trail is a level 83. This is an important consideration when determining what treasure class a monster drops as well as the chance to hit ... so I hope Bone Warriors are indeed level 85 in the Pit :D. Obviously the Champion versions of Bone Warriors are 2 levels higher and the Mini Bosses and their minions are 3 levels higher, but that does not affect your analysis since you are targeting the vanilla Bone Warrior.
     
  18. JoJeck

    JoJeck IncGamers Member

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    :scratch: err, why wouldn't a Zon using the Goldstrike, like me, use the LoH as well? I do use them in fact and those demons just vaporize. The undead tend to be slower anyway so %ED Demons is a very important mod on the Bow and the Gloves.
     
  19. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    Ok, thanks. Fortunately, whether they're 83 or 85 won't change anything much in the calculations.

    I did a quick check of the addition of LoH, which don't appear to change much. Here's the table:
    Code:
    			bs	bd	sreq	dex	ias	ed	dam	AR	cth	as	ss	dps	rdps	%
    extra ias										30	30			
    wf			10	39	134	271	20	250	1405	5631	78	11	3	9243	7209	83
    wf shael		10	39	134	271	40	250	1405	5631	78	10	3	9493	7404	85
    BotD crusader		10	39	78	382	60	500	1416	8308	**	9	3	9833	8653	100
    Goldstrike		10	30	95	305	50	450	1174	8596	85	10	3	7932	6742	77
    Goldstrike shael	10	30	95	305	70	450	1174	8596	85	9	3	8152	6929	80
    Upgr Goldstrike		10	39	134	266	50	450	1111	7475	83	10	3	7506	6229	71
    Upgr Goldstrike shael	10	39	134	266	70	450	1111	7475	83	9	3	7715	6403	73
    Buri			10	44	110	290	80	200	1197	6035	79	13	3,5	6724	5311	61
    Buri shael		10	44	110	290	100	200	1197	6035	79	13	3,5	6724	5311	61
    Upgr Buri		10	61,5	163	237	80	200	1108	4908	76	13	3,5	6224	4730	54
    Upgr Buri shael		10	61,5	163	237	100	200	1108	4908	76	13	3,5	6224	4730	54
    Eagle			10	39	97	328	0	200	963	9010	95	13	3	6018	5717	66
    Eagle shael		10	39	97	328	20	200	963	9010	95	12	3	6173	5864	67
    Upgr Riphook shael	-10	31	76	324	50	220	701	6757	81	8	2	6740	5459	63
    Upgr WWS shaelshael	0	36,5	89	311	40	170	755	6481	80	9	3	5243	4194	48
    
     
  20. iceball_aarf

    iceball_aarf IncGamers Member

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    K, this is my last post here so you can enjoy it sasja, it doesn´t take into account the next delay issue just because it is very hard to try and find a way to model it, i used the build i proposed with 8 extra points into CS just because those 9 points would be what takes my build from finished to lvl 85 and it would benefit all bows (yes, even the WWS), for dexterity i used your numbers and when there was a possibility to socket something i would take out the shael rune and add a 40%ed/9dext jewel except on the case of the WWS.

    I used +4 all skills in my small calcs(2 harly, 1 skullders, 1 anni).

    I also did an small run adding the extra dmg to demons/undead for two other sub comparison´s, the final numbers where like these, the gloves used where LoH:

    Bows// Avg dmg // Dext // Final dmg //Demons // Undeads

    BoTD Crusader // 200.5 // 382 // 1457 // 2062 // 1457
    Windforce // 284.5 // 280 // 1717 // 2576 // 1717
    GSA // 117 // 314 // 754 // 1390 // 1036
    U GSA// 152 // 275 // 908 // 1734 // 1275
    Eagle // 186 // 337 // 1250 // 1812 // 1250
    U Riphook // 111 // 333 // 741 // 1076 // 741
    Buriza // 237 // 299 // 1485 // 2200 // 1485
    U WWS // 125.5 // 320 // 1005 // 1471 // 1005


    As you can see i have no idea how to set up right the tables here inside the forums, also like i said that is only an small comparison(at least i admit this ;) ) and it takes into account CS, DS and AD(in a more conservative way than the *1.3, i just thought of it as an extra 2% chance to do twice the dmg, so it would be the normal formula used to calculate dmg * 1.02 at the end)....

    Feel free to pick apart the post as in the fact that i didn´t care to do a comparison of weapon speed, or how i didn´t explore many other socket possibilities and the like, really feel free... because i know that this comparison and almost any comparison possible of bows will be flawed because of the same common problem of next delay... and for that we must only give big thx to blizzard.
     

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