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Block or vita?

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by omgmir, Mar 14, 2004.

  1. omgmir

    omgmir IncGamers Member

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    Block or vita?

    I've decided to make my return to d2 char a meteorb sorc for MF, but I don't know whether I should go high dex block/DR or high vitality all life, no block, maybe some DR?
    I would have posted this in the sorc forum but they have a jaded view as to dying.. not exactly the same view as from my perspective eh? :innocent:
     
  2. NEURO_CKY

    NEURO_CKY IncGamers Member

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    hi there...i would definately reccomend max block over x-tra life. it will
    save you time and time again...especially with all the new ranged attackers!
    my meteorb sorc is lvl 85 now and im so glad i decided to go max block with her.
    with ss and some extra stats off an anniulus she has a bout 205 dex giving her
    75% block:). also sorcs get less life than say a druid or barb when points are
    invested in vitality,so in my opinion spending points in dex is perfectly fine
    because vita small charms will more than make up for the points that couldnt go
    into vitality.just my .02 cents.... :buddies: :thumbsup:
     
  3. baalos

    baalos IncGamers Member

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    dex over life is the best option for a sorc as long as you max block of your shield. after that, have a good balance of energy if you choose energy shield with life. My sorcs will have at least 50% damage to mana. when max block is hit then i put points into energy and life something to a 4:1 ratio.
     
  4. 0takuPryd3

    0takuPryd3 Banned

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    It depends on if you have good items or not. I say go vita if you're just starting, but if you already have some wealth you can trade off I say go max block and get, as Neuro said, higher vitality. Personally, I don't use max block but I kind of wish I had put those points into dexterity. Also, don't go too crazy on mana if you already have low life... mana burn will make short work of you.

    Anyway, this setup works for me with good items: 114 base strength (+2 from shako, 30 from SS and 10 from War Travelers), 75 base dex (+2 from shako), ~260 base vitality (+38 from Verdungo's, 10 from War Travelers, 2 from Shako) and 50 base energy. Max block is nice but there's still that chance that you'll get hit, and some monsters can kill you with just one smack.
     
  5. Dangerous Old Man

    Dangerous Old Man IncGamers Member

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    I'm making my third run at a hc ladder sorceress. I've lost two in the 80's and I'm attempting to learn from my mistakes.

    The first one died in one hit from a zombie in hell. Had a bunch of life, but base dex. It was a normal zombie in Pindle's garden - learned how hard they can hit.

    The second one died in two hits. This one also had a bunch of life, but base dex again. I know, I know - it seems I didn't learn much from the first death. Well, this time I had a bunch in ES. Thought that would protect me. Well, it did and then it immediately killed me. Got tagged by those same zombies in the same place in hell. First one knocked me halfway across the screen and my mana bulb went to zero instantly. Couldn't teleport, couldn't attack. Second zombie hit me and deeds. Thus the two hit kill - from this I learned that ES may not be my friend.

    For the current sorcie, I'm going with max block and no ES. I know I could get ES and pump telekenesis to reduce the mana drain, but with the resistance bug still alive and well, I am not going to invest the four points I'd need for it. My life has taken a beating as a result. Lvl 72 with 650 life. That's much lower than I'm accustomed, but that was the sacrifice for max block.

    Not sure if this helps, but if someone learns from my mistakes, then I guess the mistakes were worth making.

    -Dangerous Old Man
     
  6. grauengel

    grauengel IncGamers Member

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    i have a few sorcs meant only for the purpose of mf running.. i use zero dex builds on them for the simple fact of: they dont need it. mf sorcs dont need block. get a merc, get a decent lvl skill, some resist, and ok life - and you'll be fine. only worry about block if your a pvmer, a rusher, or a pvper. and for the people above.. iunno what you did wrong.. i have 4 lvl 90+ mf sorcs, 700+mana 1k-1.4k life, max resist zero block, and i do perfectly fine, and never come near to death.. perhaps get a nice merc or something tt.. and your not suppost to tank pindle TT
     
  7. Omikron8

    Omikron8 IncGamers Member

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    Vitality all the way even in hardcore. Vitality keeps you alive against physical and elemental attackers while block will only keep you alive against physical attacks. No amount of blocking will save your backside when a dozen oblivion knights unload bone spirits/elemental blasts at you.
     
  8. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Well then, why not use a 6 IO 1h weapon and a 4 IO shield for 200 extra life instead of maxing out your resists?

    Block is good if you've got the gear to support it...my new sorc is doing fine blocking with whistans that has a diamond in it.
     
  9. Cleglaw_Himself

    Cleglaw_Himself IncGamers Member

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    Well, my opinion of hardcore chars has never changed.
    Its vitality all the way for me. I just can't justify not putting points into life.
    I have 2 sorcs - 1 mainly Orb, 1 Enchantress. Lvl 77/72.
    With lots of vitality and enough dex to hold a wizardspike, a decent shield, ES, and 16+ in telekinesis, an orb sorc can hold their own in most situations. Just have to watch those mana burning packs.
    Your shield still blocks some of the time, and you have enough life to realize when you have a problem and scull a full rejuv.
    Will full block and no life, there is less of a buffer if a couple of hits get through.
     
  10. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Bleh, 2*2*80=320 life...
    We'll say that with max block you're pulling 1000 life instead of 1320 then.
    Against a pack of frenzying moonlords that 75% block might save you...the 320 extra life won't do as good a job. Yes you might get insanely unlucky with the blocking, but hey with no block you're dead regardless if they have nasty mods, with block you have a 75% better chance at surviving.
    With max resists and a tgods nothing elemental is really going to bother your sorc much, with or without ES on, so go away with that arguement.
     
  11. doubleOObubble

    doubleOObubble IncGamers Member

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    I go with no block too, but It's really up to a couple of things to do so. One thing has already been stated and that is that it does matter what kind of gear you have.

    With top gear, one is allowed a more aggressive playing style. Such a style, coupled with the many bonuses from the better gear, would probably benefit from max block. However, there is no generic "end" answer. For example the frenzytaur example above. Sure, a Harle/Verdugo/Stormshield sorc might teleport blindly (or fast anyway) and end up in/close to one of those packs. The point is, a sorc wearing Stealth armor, Lore helm and Ancient's pldge should not play a way that makes it possible to end up in the arms of that mighty frenzytaurs.

    Such a char (the lesser equipped one) really have to take it easy when progressing. In this case, other things than hard hitting melee monsters are the potential killers (ie elemental attacks). Those chars will not have the same resistst as the decked out ones, and if going for max block with lesser items, their HP will be too low. A one hit kill is a one hit kill is a one hit kill and there is nothing one can do about that.

    So, my conclusion is, that if you are really decked out, you can afford to play a bit more gung-ho and then you really have a great benefit of max block. However, if you don't have all that in gear, you can't afford playing as aggressively, and more buffer to your life might actually be a better idea.

    That's how I do it. I'm doing no-block sorceressess atm but that's only because I don't have any great items to help. If I find those super things one day, I'll really consider the max block alternative. I just find it my chars don't afford it right now!

    So, there is no end-answer here. You'll have to learn for yourself what kind of player you are and what's right for you. It'll should take a maximum of two chars to find out :thumbsup:
     
  12. ventilator

    ventilator IncGamers Member

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    From my experience with 79 Meteor sorc (Vita) and 85 CB/FO sorc (Block) plus their various now dead predecessors I'd always recommend block over vita if you've got the equip to make it work. Just maxblock with crappy resists and life so low that one unblocked hit kills you won't work of course.

    You can get away without block if you've got good enough meatshields, either from party or merc, use long-ranged spells and constantly reposition yourself, at least that's what I have to do with the Meteor sorcy. She is absolutely not able to tank and I've had quite a few close calls when I accidentially teleported into some zombies for example.

    Maxblock will make your character, sorcy or not, much tougher, and will enable her to tank together with her merc in most cases. If you plan to tank look out for good FHR.

    I'd say you should decide on a concept for your sorc first, take a look at the skills you'll use, the merc you'll use, whether you are a runner or a teleporter, if you like to tank or not and so on. Decide on the purpose of that sorc. General PvM? NM/Hell rusher? Boss MFer? SU MFer? Then take a look at the equipment you want to use. Will it enable you to reach perfect resists and high life even with maxblock? Do you want to use ES? Lightning skills? Can you go base energy? A maxblock sorcy takes much more careful planning since she'll be so tight on stat points. She is also much more equipment dependant than a vita sorc, not only in the shield spot.
     
  13. doubleOObubble

    doubleOObubble IncGamers Member

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    "Maxblock will make your character, sorcy or not, much tougher, and will enable her to tank together with her merc in most cases."

    Ventilator is one the same track here. What should be emphasized is, that a Lore/Ancient's pledge/Stealth Sorc should not tank to begin with :)
     
  14. ventilator

    ventilator IncGamers Member

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    Yes, very much on the same track and I'll happily agree with everything that you said while I still wrote my reply :)
     
  15. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Started virtually from scratch sorc;
    Now level 70, went 30-50 doing norm baal solos, 62-current doing NM baal solos
    All of the stuff I traded for items I'm wearing were found by this sorc.
    Whistan's (Traded from a raven I was lucky enough to find early in my norm baaling)
    Suicide Branch (Same as above, from Sting)
    20% viper (15 assorted orts/rals/tals/etc got me this, replaced a stealth I used until 68)
    Frosties (A few rals and a PG from Conner)
    Mask w/ 2 Perf saphs 1 perf ruby (twinked from what I had left over from classic, but easy enough to make by the time you start doing norm baals)
    +1 sorc 40% LR +17 energy ammy (gambling)
    +90 mana ring (gambling)
    Dual resist ring both around 15 (gambling)
    Nightsmoke (Someone gave me one for free, have since found a couple though)
    dual resist r/w boots (gambling)
    A bunch of small 10 life charms that I found

    With gear like that, which is easy to aquire at the current time (when ladder season first starts and the market isn't flooded the stuff isn't so easy to come across) my sorc has 54/75/54/75 resists in NM, 75% block, 700 life/600 mana. Combined with 61% ES 20 TK and 15 or so warmth she hasn't had anything resembling a near death experience. No, she wouldn't be able to cut it in hell...but once I get my hands on a wizzy my resists and mana will be looking good, I'll be able to drop the mask for a circlet with some skills, and I should be fine from there. Hopefully I'll have cubed some vita SCs by then, as the life is still on the lower side, but the 70 or so I have invested in dex (137, that's 70 over the req on a spike) wouldn't make a very large difference at all if it was in vit.
    Anyone building a sorc, planning to MF in hell rather than NM, and doesn't have access to a wizzy (or similar items) from the start, may want to reconsider their plans. Dex or Vit I don't think they have much of a chance.

    EDIT: In the past I have advised the no-block route for those just starting out...I think there's a chance I may have been wrong in doing so, unless they are starting out at the beginning of the ladder season when the lower end exceptional gear is still hard to trade for.
     
  16. grauengel

    grauengel IncGamers Member

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    TT yes everyone attempts to tank a pack of unik frenzy lords... lol

    i still prefer the no block for mf. block isnt need, sorcs arent meant to tank, and if they are, then go duel or pa or something tt
     
  17. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Max Block is very nice if you have the gear, but building to max block wihtout some gear only leaves you so close to death it isnt very reasonable.

    Ideal Max block sorc can use a Wizzy and Whitstans like Mousey. With this combo a vita sorc can go to max or near max block changing from a Vita build pretty easily with a few added items.

    Tals Belt 20 dex
    Dex Ring with rez maybe a rare, not uncommon
    WaterWalks 15 Dex i beleive
    There are also GEMS....yes gems can give you dex if you want that max block that bad. With the new "unsocket" recipe it wont cost much to throw a gem for dex in that Viper for a while until you get better stuff.
    3 sock helms can get you many things, Ruby, Top Saph, 38 life 24 MF 38 Mana....damn cheap, very good
    3-4 sock armor Topaz, Ruby, Emeralds (i think this is dex one) can be another 24 MF, 38 life, 20 Dex (I think, didnt look)

    IMO if you have NOTHING you go Vita build, hit 70, MF NM, aquire gear, save stats, roll charms and then decide the final build. I suggest ALL sorcs get the reqs for Wizzy as it is just too good an item. From there, and from lvl 70 if you pump dex from there out by 80 you have 50 more dex at 120. Add in Walks, Tals Belt, you can have 155 DEX and more than max block!

    So......it is smart to go Vita early and adjust to items that you aquire.

    I see and hear about people "building for max block" and early they start adding DEX and its just pointless. You cant even use a Shard until lvl thenty something and most caster items dont require dex. BTW, dont overlook the Shard, it is still a damn good item and Hell capable and dont let anyone tell you otherwise! Damn cheap to get and they drop a lot in Xpac.

    Dont forget about Necro Wands, it is easy to shop or find wands with NO SKILL (sorc doesnt need them) with mana, FCR, couple resists maybe.

    So, with all that, and there is a lot more that could be said, it is still solid advice to go a Vita build starting with nothing. A sorc can change to max block later, but she cannot get stats back once spent!

    Remember, 70 Dex in the lvl 60 Range isnt MAX block, but it is SOME block and SOME is better than NONE! Play according to your skills, gear, and life and resists and you will be fine with any build. Play like you have godly when you dont, you will rebuild a lot!
     

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