Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

Moosashi

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

I think what you mean is that I can't post or you're going to wind up with a knot in your panties again.
Are you going to try to tie them? How bout if you try not to deliberately push my buttons and I'll try not to overreact?

P.S. Judicial tests and elements of judgement aren't law, they're interpretation.
Interpretation of what? What statute, what piece of legislation are they interpreting? And don't say they're interpreting each other's opinions, because that just proves my point.



 

Moosashi

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

I don't know of any in the States.
There are dozens, if not hundreds of common laws that are not written in any statute or ever passed by a legislature. I gave one classic example: Negligence. Is anyone going to come out and tell me that it is not against the law to negligently damage people and property because the legislature never passed a statute against it?



 

Moosashi

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

In general, anything the state can or can't force you to do.

Or possibly the sum of the rights and obligations of a person and the rights and obligations of the state.
I think we're in general agreement. Certainly under my definition or either of yours "Only the legislature makes law(s)" is a false statement. I think your second definition is better for "The Law", but not "a law". Rights are circumscribed by laws, but they are not laws themselves. From that perspective, a law is simply a rule that protects a right or rights. How does it protect them? With the force of the state.



 

Yaboosh

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

There are dozens, if not hundreds of common laws that are not written in any statute or ever passed by a legislature. I gave one classic example: Negligence. Is anyone going to come out and tell me that it is not against the law to negligently damage people and property because the legislature never passed a statute against it?

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0827/SEC03.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0827->Section 03#0827.03

Florida just because I am most familiar with Florida state code.



 

Moosashi

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

First, that's a criminal code. There is more to law than crime.

Second, it's the crime of child abuse you've linked to, not the tort of negligence. It's not surprising that there's a statute on child abuse because there was probably no such thing in common law.

Third, if you read carefully, the language used to formulate components of the statute is drawn from ancient common law. If anything, you've demonstrated that judges write laws of their own and statutes, and that legislators merely clarify and interpret the common law.

Fourth, did you try searching for negligence? EDIT: Or better yet, let's bring it back to square one? Does the plaintiff in our original case allege Blizzard has violated any statute?

Finally, did I not say that there are surely statutes than people can dredge up that duplicate, modify or otherwise relate to judge-made law? You'll find that the behavior those statutes prohibit has been against the law for a lot longer than those statutes have been in existence. One of the legislatures jobs is to reign in the courts when they start interpreting the common laws too weirdly (but of course, the whole reason the legislature is compelled to do this is because judges have a lot of power to make the law). There might be a particularly odious decision that prompts the legislature to set in stone exactly what the elements of some such common law tort are and what they are not. Indeed, there's probably a slow conversion going on in our legal system from common, judge-made laws to statutes. But this conversion is far from complete, and even when it is, the original authors of all those laws will have been judges.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

Man, wait until at least third year. You're embarrassing yourself.

Except it's the Judiciary that clarifies what is actually said.
The legislature saying "that's what I said but not what I meant" doesn't work because the players change.
They pass clarifying legislation.

Keep an eye on the prop 8 deal, and we will see which branch tells whom what they can clarify =P
Constitutional issues are different of course. In that case they are interpreting legislation which applies to the legislators.

Are you going to try to tie them? How bout if you try not to deliberately push my buttons and I'll try not to overreact?
??

I don't get it, what's in it for me?

Interpretation of what? What statute, what piece of legislation are they interpreting? And don't say they're interpreting each other's opinions, because that just proves my point.
Legal opinions are formed about legislation. All the ones that are deemed relevant.



 

Garbad_the_Weak

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

Indeed, there's probably a slow conversion going on in our legal system from common, judge-made laws to statutes.
Well, its already happened. During the codification movement, many parts of judge made common law were lifted directly from opinions and codified. For example, look at the Law of General Obligations of New York State. In this case, legislation (which drei seems to conflate with law) is a derivative of the common law.

But for purposes of your argument with Drei, the point is the law existed before, during, and after the codification. It was created by a judge, and codified simply to make it easier to find, complete with cites to the original decisions. It didn't change its nature, make it more enforceable or valid, or anything else. Its hard to imagine why someone would say its now a law because the legislature "reposted" a common law and then turn around and say the OP wasn't law.

But just to give Drei some ammo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Hudson_and_Goodwin



 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

That was interesting reading.

Nulla poena sine lege... I was trying to think of that before.

One should also note that if the legislature really chafes at an established legal precedent, they can always pass legislation that effectively abolishes it (assuming they have the power to do so in the first place, constitutionally). So this idea of ancient case law being somehow antithetical to the separation of powers is pretty silly. I'm sure generations of lawmakers have been clawing at their hair over negligence, thinking "goodness, if only there was some way to challenge those dastardly judges on this issue!".
 

Moosashi

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

This case apparently has to do with the court's authority to define its jurisdiction over a crime. Notice that the legislature would still depend on the court to define the behavior that actually constituted the activity to be legislated against.

Even if the case you cite supports the assertion that courts are effectively prohibited from making criminal law, you have the entirety of civil law yet to deal with. Negligence is not a crime, it's a tort. So how can I be forced to pay for my negligent activity if it's not unlawful?



 

Moosashi

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

So this idea of ancient case law being somehow antithetical to the separation of powers is pretty silly.
Indeed. So silly that entire legal systems have been founded on the principle. See France. What a silly country.

I'm sure generations of lawmakers have been clawing at their hair over negligence, thinking "goodness, if only there was some way to challenge those dastardly judges on this issue!".
Yeah. I suppose they pass statutes of limitations just for fun of it.



 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

The legislature doesn't depend on the legislature for any such thing, they can make the laws as specific as they like. It's just that legislators tend to be barely literate idiots who leave massive gaps in their laws that need to be interpreted like crazy.
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

Yeah. I suppose they pass statutes of limitations just for fun of it.
There were "statutes of limitation" at common law, too. If you haven't run into the doctrine of "laches" yet, look it up.



 

buttershug

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

This case apparently has to do with the court's authority to define its jurisdiction over a crime. Notice that the legislature would still depend on the court to define the behavior that actually constituted the activity to be legislated against.

Even if the case you cite supports the assertion that courts are effectively prohibited from making criminal law, you have the entirety of civil law yet to deal with. Negligence is not a crime, it's a tort. So how can I be forced to pay for my negligent activity if it's not unlawful?
How does contempt of court fit into this? If the person doesn't pay a court ordered payment that would be contempt of court?
Is contempt of court ever criminal?


@Dondrie legislatures have teams of bureaucrats to help with wording laws.
But the politicos probably don't always listen.



 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

And sometimes they deliberately make shell legislation to appease voters but not actually have any real consequences.

The Founders could've used some of those teams... look at the grammatical train wreck that is the Second Amendment for example. That's another way it can happen - laws get introduced but then get put to the torture in parliament until what comes out the other end is mangled and nonsensical. In fact I seem to recall that judges can completely discard legislation if they deem it to be so badly written or vapidly targeted that it's impossible to apply.
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blizzard Sued By South Carolina Inmate

How does contempt of court fit into this? If the person doesn't pay a court ordered payment that would be contempt of court?
Is contempt of court ever criminal?
Failure to follow a court order is contempt of court. Also, disrespect for courtroom decorum and disobedience in court can be grounds for contempt. And yes, it can be criminal. There's a lawyer in Ohio doing 4 months in jail for dropping the f-bomb.



 
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