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Blizzard on the Item Set Changes Debate

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Flux, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Flux Submitted a news story

    Blizzard on the Item Set Changes Debate

    Lots of Blue posts and tweets shedding light on the changes coming to Item Sets. First up, a series of big Blue posts about which slots the new set pieces will occupy, and how the current sets are changing were added to the original Focused Feedback thread. Blizzard on the Item Set Changes Debate:

    There's a few changes coming down the pipeline for the next PTR patch that we thought you should know in case you would like to take it into account when providing your feedback:

    The following sets will be gaining a 7th piece of the set to make acquiring the 6-piece bonuses comparable to newer sets that don't include weapons or jewelry slots. This is in addition to the pieces that have already been added in 2.2.0.
    • Immortal King's Call - Legs
    • Inna's Mantray - Hands
    • Natalya's Vengeance - Hands
    • Tal Rasha's Elements - Hands
    • Zunimassa's Haunt - Legs


    There's a number of other changes coming to various sets and legendaries that are meant as complimentary to sets, but I want to avoid this post getting too patch-note-esque. We'll be thoroughly updating the PTR Patch Notes when the next patch comes around, so please check them out once they're available![source]http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16412041974?page=20#383[/source]


    Those changes are on top of the sixth pieces most of those sets had added in the last PTR patch, so all of those sets now have 7 items, of which you must wear 2, 4, or 6 (in most cases) to get the special bonuses. (Or one less if you've got a RoRG.)

    Additional Blue posts explained why shoulders were not the new slot, and why they want gearing complexity and trade offs. Click through for those, plus a number of additional explanation Tweets from the dev team. And some heated Demon Hunter debate, since I think their current direction with the Unhallowed Essence set is making it irrelevant and a big waste of potential.



    Nevalistis: We decided against adding shoulders as one of the new pieces while expanding the older sets to 7 pieces. One of the reasons is because many builds do not currently have a game-changing legendary in their shoulder slot. Of course, this is exactly why people want the new set to be a shoulder item – it would make for a very easy choice. However, we want there to be some contention between your gear choices, which is why we’re looking more at slots like gloves, rings, and bracers. We are deliberately trying to create more difficult item choices while leaving some flexibility during the gear-up process.

    [caption id="attachment_383034" align="alignright" width="220"][​IMG] New Natalya's set pants.[/caption]In the future, we’d like to provide more shoulder options that are strong and compelling for all classes, much like Vile Ward for Barbarian as many of you have mentioned. In a similar way Patch 2.2.0 has seen a heavy focus on powerful rings, we’d like to get some powerful shoulder pieces out there in the future.

    Secondly, as many of you have noticed, some of these new set pieces compete with new items we added in 2.2.0. Items that have this conflict have been shifted around, including the Immortal King’s pants becoming bracers, the Zunimassa’s pants becoming a belt, and the Natalya’s moving from gloves to belt.

    All that said, let’s keep this thread focused on your set feedback rather than upcoming changes. :)


    So Zuni gets pants that directly conflict with the new Zuni pants that are not actually part of the set. Can't win for losing -_-
    Before we get off track - try not to take the above change in a vacuum. As mentioned, there's a lot of other changes coming, I just don't have the ability to list them all right here, right now (I'd essentially be writing the patch notes, which is already being worked on by one of my colleagues).

    Rather than focusing on just this change, treat it as additional information when considering your feedback.


    Thanks, but how does changing the "Zuni pants" aka Cloth of Transcendence help at all when the piece that was added to Zuni were gloves?
    Zunimassa's has both gloves (currently available) and new pants (coming next PTR patch).

    Is the cloth of transendence (pants) moving to belt, or is the new set piece going to be the belt?
    My apologies, it often gets me all confused too because of the way we refer to things internally. I'll try to say this as directly as possible, using Zunimassa's as an example:

    Compared to how it currently exists in Patch 2.1.2 on live, Zunimassa's Haunt is gaining two new pieces to the set that occupy the Gloves and Legs slots. In addition, the complimentary legendary pants we added in the first 2.2.0 PTR patch are being changed to be a belt instead. Similar changes are happening for both Natalya's and Immortal King's.

    I hope that's clearer!

    So... Does this mean we can mix and match better in the future or that we're going to be required to wear more pieces of the set to get bonuses?
    The amount of items needed to activate set bonuses is not changing. Providing more options to mix and match is the intent. :)


    John Yang's been adding explanations 140 characters at a time, and here's a compilation of those from the past day:

    Jade Harvester will get new 2pc/4pc bonuses and a new complementary item to make up for the Immunity changes that affect Spirit Walk. --JohnYang

    Solution isn't to prevent Kridershot from working with Unhallowed Set, it's

    out of curiosity whats the reason behind the focus around multishot for the set? --conark

    Re: Unhallowed Set+Kridershot+Multishot. Yes, we want MS used. No, I don't want to do that by removing Kridershot from working w/ set. --JohnYang


    [caption id="attachment_381512" align="alignright" width="350"][​IMG] Unhallowed Essence Item Set[/caption]The issue with Unhallowed Essences is the huge buff to damage only applies to Generators and Multishot... unless you've got a Kridershot or Spines of Seething Hatred, since those items change Elemental Arrow and Chakram into generators, and thus make them eligible for the huge damage boost from the six piece Unhallowed Essence buff. (This makes an Ancient Kridershot BiSable, since all your Lightning Balls or Frost Arrows enjoy a huge +500% or more damage from the six-piece, while you are building Discipline, and also keeping full your Hatred which can be spent in an orgy of Multishot.)

    Months ago when this Unhallowed Essence set was first being developed, a Demon Hunter build that made Multishot powerful (as a direct attack, not just something for Sentries to fire) was really needed, since that was the initial version of Marauder's Set, when the Sentries did all the damage and the Demon Hunter stood around the corner, doing nothing but avoiding Mortars and Arcane beam while recasting Sentry every ~8 seconds.

    That's no longer the case, since the Patch 2.1.0 rebuild of Marauder's made it much more fun and much more active. The most powerful builds with that set use Cluster Arrow, cold or fire, but Multishot Fire works very well with it as well. As a result the Unhallowed Essence set doesn't really offer anything new in gameplay. I tested the set with multiple skills and builds on the PTR, and MS with Unhallowed feels very similar to MS with Marauder's. The only real diff is that one buffs the DH's damage with active Sentries while the other buffs it with high Discipline.

    As it stands, Unhallowed isn't big enough damage at the high end to replace Marauder's, and with equivalent gear I could do several GRs higher with Marauder's than with Unhallowed. In fact, the best use I found for Unhallowed on the PTR was to make a very fast and fun T6 farming build. It's better than Marauder's for that since there's no damage wind up time on a new level, and since the infinite Discipline allows almost infinite Vaulting even without Danetta's Xbows.

    I think Unhallowed is kind of a wasted set now, with all the emphasis on a Multishot skill that's no longer useless, and that at a minimum, Rapid Fire and Strafe (and maybe Impale?) should be added to the skills that reap the big damage buff from the six piece bonus. Those wouldn't make it better than Marauder's, but at least they'd open up some new builds, and make those ignored skills more than capable of efficient farming on T6.

    Whether we can get Blizzard to agree to that is another issue, but I do expect to see some changes to Unhallowed while the PTR continues, since it's not doing a whole lot that's special at this point.
    Continue reading the Original Story
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
  2. sneakytails

    sneakytails IncGamers Member

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    Change the M6 and UE spender damage bonus to say " your spenders" instead of dictating to the player and choosing the skills for them that receive the bonus.

    Let me pick the set I want, the spenders I want to use and the build I want to run.

    Stop dictating to the players. It makes no sense to force tunnel vision on us like this.
     
  3. trocadero

    trocadero IncGamers Member

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    Agree totally. Also they need to switch up elemental damages again, b/c each class has one, maybe two if they're lucky element choices. And then there's the finger breaking Tal set up.
     
  4. dezzo

    dezzo IncGamers Member

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    the dev team's obsession with RoV is killing the viability of other sets.

    natalya set shd be about boosting strafe instead.

    reducing strafe cost by half, increasing the damage of the skill and or adding extra effects and reducing the cool down of preparation.

    I do not know why DH has RoV AND Vengeance. two "ultimate" skills that people don't want to use because in all honesty, they are rather poorly designed and interfere with the fluidity of the class that needs to be always moving.
     
  5. Silverfang

    Silverfang IncGamers Member

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    That would be a change, I'd rather not see. It would take any chance of making a tall/little-ringcombo with constant Fetish Army as blockers work entirely dependent on the weapon in use. It'll probably be hard enough coping with the lack of elite damage and not specializing on an element additionally to increased pet damage.

    As I can't test right now (, well, reinstalling the ptr would pretty suck up my download limit by itself, once refreshed...), I can't really estimate the viability. I'd like to play around with a full summoner setup, though, and would already have to throw out either Slam Dance or Wave of Mutilation from my current setup anyways. (Probably the latter, as fetish sycophants summoned by the ?legs/belt? probably can't be simply recast, if in the way of the heavy hitters. I'd miss the one more active element it provides, though.) Having to trash the idea itself and staying on a RoRG based setup, as only having one dog as permanent blocker would keep the character too exposed to play any other way than kiting :) And I hate having to kite), wouldn't be to my liking. Even if the actual damage output would perhaps be better with the change made.
     
  6. Silverfang

    Silverfang IncGamers Member

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    Sorry 'bout my english, also on the other thread. At the moment I'm too stuck in thinking in german, thus the clumsiness and mistakes in my formulations. Please excuse me.
     
  7. adastra

    adastra IncGamers Member

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    What i think is great: that they're even making 7th pieces to sets at all. The fact that they're considering it is pretty awesome. And, it seems that they're listening to feedback and moving items around to slots that have more availability. What more can we ask? I know that Marauder's is so popular that it's the last on their list for change but, I wouldn't mind seeing an extra piece for that is the form a 2 handed crossbow. Yumm

    You'd still be able to wear Wreapers. but, you could then go Leoric's Crown and Cindercoat ... OR, Leoric's Shoulders for an extra life in Grifts. Yumm Yumm Yummmmmm
     
  8. XinKaishu

    XinKaishu IncGamers Member

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    I tried really hard and read your comment several times, but I could not figure out what you were trying to say as a response.
    I am sorry too. :)
     
  9. Arkardo

    Arkardo IncGamers Member

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    The pants for the IK set aren't really that useful, because you'll probably want to use the new pants that unlocks all Wrath of the Berserker runes. I'd rather have IK shoulders.
     
  10. ematanis

    ematanis IncGamers Member

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    It was said that new legendaries that were implemented with 2.2 to compliment the new sets will be moved to new slots, like the new Zuni legendary pants are being moved to bracers I think and a new set zuni pants will be added.

    This is not bad as some of the slots like bracers and shoulders have almost no unique legendaries that are build changers and they want to add some there.
     
  11. Silverfang

    Silverfang IncGamers Member

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    Yeahyeah ... Well, I tried to apologize for a reason. In short: I'd neither would like to see the two piece, nor the 6 piece bonus moved to the 4 piece bonus slot, as it would mess up the item/skill-setup imagined, when first going through the ptr-patchnotes. (Which would be little finger Zombie Dog, tall finger Gargantuans and Fetish Army made permanent due to Zunimassas 4 piece bonus.) And then I bickered around on how tough it's going to be already to bring this setup to viability and how the new zunni pants/belts legendary affix is probably counterproductive to the actual playstyle reached for, but necessary to be used. But, well ... I myself would say, that this reply looks far easier to understand. Seem to have found my english thinking cap ^^
     
  12. dezzo

    dezzo IncGamers Member

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    i agree with strafe being the focus for the Shadow set (totally forgot about the existence of that set lol).

    I don't know if this was highlighted in the past (but i did drop it whenever strafe builds were brought up) in the past, strafe was bugged. it only damages the enemy if they were not moving. Many enemy mobs that are fast moving or have dash attacks will always evade the strafe damage.

    I think this was why they increased the splash damage for Strafe as in the past whenever fast moving elite packs spawned, you would get killed before even reducing them to half health. lol

    Strafe builds all but ceased to exist when they nerfed Preparation because they needed it for "infinite Strafe". Even with Cindercoat, I couldn't keep Strafe up and needed to stop and use a generator... which means death to DH because a still DH is a dead DH.
     
  13. Silverfang

    Silverfang IncGamers Member

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    As I just saw it, a little correction: Little is Gargantuans, Tall is Zombie Dog. Had these two mixed up above.
     
  14. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    I'm doing a strafe build with Nat's on the PTR now and it's really fun. Buzzes through T6 rifts in 3-4m and I did GR33 last night without much trouble. This is in HC too, so I can't fool around.

    Nat's supports Strafe and Rapid Fire since the cooldown reduction of RoV goes very quickly with either of those spenders. Other spenders and generators CDR it also, but only as fast as you can shoot them, which is about 1/5th the pace of Strafe. It lets me recast RoV about every 3 seconds, and RoV stacks, so you can have 2 or 3 of them (or even more when Channeling Pylon) at once.

    I don't think it's a match for M6 cold cluster at the high end, but it's awesome fun for T6. With Reaper's and Blood Vengeance I have nearly 100% Strafe up time just from health globes. (At least on T6. Slower kill speed on GR31+ made resource a little scarce.) Just need a Hatred boost from Preparation and/or Companion now and then. Note that I've got M2 and a Templar, so adding a lot of regen there.

    With Taeguk's at 50+ stacks my toughness is over 20m, and I've got enough discipline for almost non-stop use of SS, so when I need it I'm around 50% uptime on invulnerability.
     
  15. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Blue quote in this post says the cloth of transcendence pants bonus is being moved to belt, and set pants are coming to zuni's.
     

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