Blade Fury Analysis

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

You'd rarely hit high defense characters with BF, even with Angelics.
I don't know if you meant only for his setup, but I often use BF against high defense Paladins while they're locked up from stun. It's a good way to apply OWs from afar.


 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

This is not a Furysin guide. The equipment I listed in that demonstration was just that. A demonstration of how to get over 10k Blade Fury. I expect an actual build will use different gear. Though, for armor, Fortitude is the only thing I would consider using, ladder or not.
I hope that wasn't directed towards PvP.


 

Ceramic Weasel

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I don't know if you meant only for his setup, but I often use BF against high defense Paladins while they're locked up from stun. It's a good way to apply OWs from afar.
I use BF on my Ghost sometimes just to get people to move. Smiters mostly. The hit rate is crap, and it locks me in place, but when they're not taking the offensive these things don't really matter, and like you say, I can (eventually) deliver OW.

I don't believe a pure Furysin is viable for PvP, however, since even with heaps of AR gear (Fool's claw, Angelics, Visionary) you're not going to get much more than 6-7k AR. This will make it difficult to hit high defense characters unless they're running, in which case you really don't want to be going through BF's long windup and getting locked in place. LLD is the possible exception to this.

Of course, I could be wrong. I've never really tried it. But again, this isn't a Furysin guide, just an analysis of the skill with a view to maximizing it's damage. Hence, Fortitude.



 

5zigen

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I've already done some calculations for this based on onderduiker's tests. Using the same equipment as the 10k Furysin example, a level 40 Sentinel should do 6,347 damage. While I haven't tested it myself, onderduiker's tests show that it does use AR, but unlike BF, it gets the +%AR boost from CM.

Also, as you said, it has a 25 frame nextdelay, so its damage potential is further reduced. I suppose the optimal use for it would be against tightly packed groups of monsters, with a long enough path so that it takes at least 1 second to complete a circuit. I think I'd rather max out Death Sentry.
I was thinking more of a pure blade sentinel focused build (even though it forecloses the use of death sentry, to some extent) at the exclusion of blade fury.

A setup like...
Fury Eth Claw w/ +3 (if that's possible) or +3 traps +3 sentinel claw
Fort armor
Pheonix shield (won't proc firestorm)
Gore riders
CoA w/ 2x 40% ed jewels (or +3 traps w/ 2x 40% ed jewels circlet)
Highlords Ammy.

I guess maybe it's still entirely pointless, but I wonder how it would work in general.

Also, How would Lance Guard w/ 40% ed jewel stack up to Tiamats w/ 40% ed jewel and 80% ed Mosers? (assuming you aren't Deadly Strike capped)



 

Ceramic Weasel

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Perhaps not entirely pointless. The ability to use Phoenix is a redeeming (pun not intended) quality of Blade Sentinel. With the above setup, 175/90 str/dex, a lvl 87 Might merc, and lvl 40 BS (probably requires an inventory full of Trap GCs), we get the following:

Stats Bonus = 1.98
Lvl 40 Blade Sentinel = 181 avg
Lvl 28 Claw Mastery = +143%
Lvl 27 Might (Merc) = +300%
Fortitude = +300%
Phoenix = +400%
Jewels = +80%
Chance of double damage = 22+(1-22/100)*(33+33+15) = 85%

Weapon Half = 219.5 * (1 + 1.98 + (300+400+80+300+143) / 100) * 1.85 * 0.375 ~= 2316
Blade Sentinel Half = 181 * (1 + 1.98 + (300+400+80+300+143) / 100) * 1.85 ~= 5093

Total damage per Blade Sentinel = 7,409

That, of course, is subject to 25 frame nextdelay and a 2 second casting delay. Not that impressive against a single target, but against groups it could still work.
 

Rawness

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

A Jah'ed upgraded ethereal Heastriker should be pretty sweet... My question is: How does it do damage wise?
 

Kordova

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

whats your take on an edestructionDemblade?

*edit* ahh i didnt think of the reduced dmg from CTC's procing.
 

Ghoulz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

So deadly strike is important. What's the best weapon if you can't afford eDeath zerker?
 

Kordova

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Imo the upped headstriker is a decent choice, i wouldnt jah it tho, prolly ber for the cb. i use one on a lld build that failed, so im lvling it up all the way to 90, its 46 now and uses headstriker, with very good results...needs ML and LL though.


(Eth Would be ok also, no zod required.
 

5zigen

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Imo the upped headstriker is a decent choice, i wouldnt jah it tho, prolly ber for the cb. i use one on a lld build that failed, so im lvling it up all the way to 90, its 46 now and uses headstriker, with very good results...needs ML and LL though.


(Eth Would be ok also, no zod required.
for a weapon to really shine as far as BF goes, Jah is probably the best rune you can use.

ITD is the best mod you can get as there are no other skills that increase blade fury AR.



 

Ceramic Weasel

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I hadn't thought of Lanceguard, but yes it is a very good choice of shield if your DS/CS isn't already maxed out.

Headstriker has all the DS you'll ever need, but very little else. Seeing as how DS is capped at 100%, I'm not sure it's really worthwhile. With just Gores and a Lanceguard, any 'Fury' claw can get 75% chance of doing double damage.

Lvl 25 Claw Mastery (22% CS): 22+(1-22/100)*(33+15+20) = 75%

With the added bonus of CM +%ed an ethereal Fury Suwayyah easily outdamages an ethereal Headstriker. It's pretty good as a temporary weapon, but I'd set the bar higher for end-game gear.

Destruction is a poor choice. The only 1H weapon it'll go into is a Phase Blade, so it's already off to a bad start. Then all the CTCs with casting delays render it almost useless.

As for the eDeath Zerker... When you punch the numbers into the equation, an ethereal Fury Suwayyah with +3 BF staffmod actually comes out on top. It's only the 50% CB that gave Death the edge in the live tests. By it's very nature, CB can't be factored into the equation since it depends entirely on what you're attacking.

The best cheap alternative to Death would probably be Fleshripper, socketed with an Eth, Jah or Lo, depending on what you can afford and personal preference. Lacerator also does okay if you can solve the whole AR issue.

I personally prefer claws, particularly if you're going to skimp on +%ed on other equipment. If you can't get a decent amount of off-weapon enhanced damage, investing skill points into BF just isn't worthwhile.
 

onderduiker

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

ITD is the best mod you can get as there are no other skills that increase blade fury AR.
Although Claw Mastery's +% AR doesn't apply to Blade Fury, that of other skills like Enchant, Blessed Aim, Fanaticism and Heart of Wolverine does: +% AR from items also applies.

This is because CM applies a different stat (passive_mastery_melee_th) to the other skills and items (item_tohit_percent).


 

Kordova

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

ITD is the most important mod pvm i belive, but it is useless in pvp, Btw i got on my Bf sin and she is a beast at hld's. max block, max dr, high 80's or 90s fhr, near 8k dmg. Bs(sentinal) is REALLLY affective vs blizz sorcs, witch give me the most trouble, even with raven/snowclash.(fade used not bos)

i suggest this build for anyone who likes noncookie builds and enjoys highly versitile chars.
 

Ceramic Weasel

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Perhaps I was too quick in dismissing Headstriker. After playing with the numbers some more, I see that with particularly high levels of BF (40+) and huge amounts of off-weapon +%ed (820%++), the extra 20-30% DS begins to overtake the moderate benefits of CM. Still, it's a balancing act. DS is useless without +ed% to make it shine.

i got on my Bf sin and she is a beast at hld's.
I'm delighted at the prospect of a Furysin kicking butt in PvP, but I have to remain skeptical.

Perhaps the people you fought just weren't very good, or were caught completely offguard by your unusual build? Is it possible that when you started throwing shuriken and Blade Sentinels around, your opponents just laughed so hard that they got careless and died? These aren't the sort of skills that I would expect to do well in the fast-paced environment of HLDs. Anyone with a decently fast teleport or more than 20k defense shouldn't have a problem beating a bladesin if they were taking it seriously.

But I'm far from an expert on this, so I'd really like to hear about your PvP experiences. Specifically, the equipment setup and tactics that you use.



 

theBanger

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

5zigen said:
for a weapon to really shine as far as BF goes, Jah is probably the best rune you can use.

ITD is the best mod you can get as there are no other skills that increase blade fury AR.
I've been messing around with the numbers on a furysin for a while, (since probably about 2 months or so ago), and I'm surprised why no one has yet to make any mention about CoS with BF, as that was my very first consideration for solving the AR issue.

Originally I considered CoS because I thought that BF being a one point wonder and all, would better benefit from extra points in CoS rather then itself. As it turns out, BF isn't just a 1 point wonder. But even still, BF does not gain an AR bonus from itself, hence the problem of hitting stuff. Enter CoS; at level 28 the -def% caps at -95%, and lasts 35 seconds. Since so few monsters have +def%, -95% will literally give you 95% chance to hit. ( Or something like that.) Level 28 does not seem hard to hit for a twinked sin, and even lower levels of CoS in untwinked could still help huge. If making an untwinked furysin, I would consider maxing this skill for sure.

In PvP, the duration works out well because constantly casting CoS would make you vulnerable to attacks, and make it more difficult to attack. This would not help against some classes, but slay most others. Barbs and Dins might rape you, but I don't think Blade Fury is the skill of choice in dealing with BvCs or smiters anyway. In PvM the duration can be used to your advantage, simply round up as many monsters onto the screen as you can, then cast CoS, and fury away. Also, I'm not saying that CoS makes AR useless, I would still consider having as much as you can, especially against masses of stone skinned monsters, just mentioning this because Jah seems an awful waste to use when this option is right there, and won't work on these bosses either.
 
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Ceramic Weasel

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I use CoS almost exclusively as my "curse" of choice, and cast it at the beginning of every battle. The problem with this skill, however, is that you can't cast it again until the timer runs out on the last one you cast. At level 28, 35 seconds is a looong time to be waiting around, particularly when you're killing things so quickly with a high damage BF. I get frustrated even with the 15-20 second timer on my 1pt +skills CoS.

The other problem is that the -% will first attempt to reduce the skill enhancements of your enemy. This makes it fairly useless in PvP, because that Paladin with the level 48 Holy Shield isn't going to be reduced to 5% of his defense, but instead the bonus he gets from HS will go from being +730% to +635%.

One way around this might be to use a Shadow Warrior, since they can cast a separate CoS, which can then be overridden by your own. That way, if you take turns, you can effectively half the waiting time between casts. If you're willing to put up with these eccentricities, then yes, it can certainly solve your AR needs.
 

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I'm delighted at the prospect of a Furysin kicking butt in PvP, but I have to remain skeptical.

Perhaps the people you fought just weren't very good, or were caught completely offguard by your unusual build? Is it possible that when you started throwing shuriken and Blade Sentinels around, your opponents just laughed so hard that they got careless and died? These aren't the sort of skills that I would expect to do well in the fast-paced environment of HLDs. Anyone with a decently fast teleport or more than 20k defense shouldn't have a problem beating a bladesin if they were taking it seriously.

But I'm far from an expert on this, so I'd really like to hear about your PvP experiences. Specifically, the equipment setup and tactics that you use.
I think you'd actually be surprised at a well built beached whale.
 

Ghoulz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Although Claw Mastery's +% AR doesn't apply to Blade Fury, that of other skills like Enchant, Blessed Aim, Fanaticism and Heart of Wolverine does: +% AR from items also applies.

This is because CM applies a different stat (passive_mastery_melee_th) to the other skills and items (item_tohit_percent).
Would might or blessed aim from merc be better for BF?


 
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