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Better to hold Infinity or Put on Merc?

Discussion in 'Sorceress' started by Keldon Hero, Sep 4, 2006.

  1. Keldon Hero

    Keldon Hero IncGamers Member

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    Better to hold Infinity or Put on Merc?

    I have been reading up on building an Infinity Light sorc and see two distinct possibilitys on the forums. Either to hold infinity your self say a scythe or give your merc a nice eth infinity. I'm posting this poll to find out which is better all around for pvm all opinions are welcome.
     
  2. Xenon[XoA]

    Xenon[XoA] Banned

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    If you're going to be chaosing a lot, plan on holding it. Reviving that stupid merc every 30 seconds is annoying. Even if its a low damage infinity on merc, he still ends up killing himself - or it still means a trip to town to Jamella, which slows the runs a lot. Especially since 1/2 the smartasses think its a good idea to run ahead, while you do so.

    If you're going for pvp lightning, stick it on a merc, and build for orb/shield (ideally hoto/spirit).

    If you're building nova, wearing it's best option, pvp or pvm.
     
  3. Uchiha Sasuke

    Uchiha Sasuke Banned

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    What about baaling/general mfing.
     
  4. Xenon[XoA]

    Xenon[XoA] Banned

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    Stick it on a merc? More damage.
     
  5. Uchiha Sasuke

    Uchiha Sasuke Banned

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    But you get the -5x.
     
  6. Xenon[XoA]

    Xenon[XoA] Banned

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    Also have 5 less skills, kill speed, fhr, life/mana (tankability). The -res is more effective for spells like nova, because they have a lower max damage (3.1k ish, wielding infinity) than lightning would if you were to wield it (25k+?). Yet nova still kills effectively despite the low max, because of the area of effect. It's personal choice more than anything else, but for lightning orb/shield/merc infinity'd be more efficient for rushing hell.
     
  7. Keldon Hero

    Keldon Hero IncGamers Member

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    Im going to be pvm mainly baal, Pits ect. I never saw the point of chaos runs over other runs why are they so popluar now. I always found baal, meph, or pits, to be more productive. Iam i wrong or are they just over rated.
     
  8. melianor

    melianor D3 Wizard Moderator

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    moderator note: This vote is not very useful since it depends on many factors, wheter you use Infinity on your char or on the Merc.... :(
    Please watch out when you make polls. At least provide more options next time.

    thx, meli
     
  9. lagalot

    lagalot IncGamers Member

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    Chaos sanctuary yields well for mf its alvl 85 same as wsk.Only thing with chaos is your 100% gauranteed of oblivion knights, bane of all melee and mercs.Running baal is like 1:3 chance of oks and then often you can run past them on lvl3.

    Holding an infinity on your char, even if its a temporary switch, means you dont have to worry about merc dying due to iron maiden curse and you can break light immunes yourself.

    Thats a relatively rich option though.
     
  10. Keldon Hero

    Keldon Hero IncGamers Member

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    What other options would you want? Infinity in Stash, own the ground, iorn golam. I have infinity and want to use it so a made the pole to try to figure out how i was going to use it.
     
  11. lagalot

    lagalot IncGamers Member

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    Man if your not planning on doing chaos runs then stick the infinity on your merc..best bet..:thumbsup:
     
  12. WrathTalon

    WrathTalon IncGamers Member

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    Gents, you know how I'm going to vote here. Always carry the Infinity yourself.

    The simple reason is the runeword's godly -(45-55) Enemy Lightning Resist mod, which you don't get if it's on your merc.

    Even if you carried a Spirit shield and a perfect Eschuta's, the extra damage you'd gain from the 5 plus-skills and the FCR would almost never match the extra damage you gain from the -5x enemy resist mod on Infinity.

    Only if a monster has relatively low resistance to lightning are the setups comparable. The more resistance to lightning the monster has, the more dramatically the -5x enemy resist mod helps your damage, because of the way that it stacks with Conviction.

    For example, against a monster with average lightning resistance--such as a Venom Lord in the Chaos Sanctuary--your damage will be "only" 45% higher (!) if you hold Infinity yourself than if your merc carries it.

    But against an Abyss Knight, Night Lord, Storm Caster, or Stygian Harlot, your damage will be 294% higher (!!!) if you hold Infinity yourself than if you give it to your merc.

    On the other hand, even if you have a PERFECT Eschuta's and PERFECT Spirit, their combined 5 plus-skills and 75% FCR will only increase your chain lightning damage by roughly 46% and your lightning by 56%. And if you use any other orb/shield combination (such as Lidless, Tal's, WizSpike), your damage will be less than this.

    In almost every case, then, you're better off holding Infinity yourself.

    The fact that this gives you total independence from your merc is just icing on the cake. If he dies (Chaos, anyone?), you'll STILL have Conviction and -5x enemy light resist.

    This also gives you much more freedom for what to do with your merc. Now you can give your HF freeze merc an Insight instead (for near invulnerability if you're running ES). Or get a Might merc and give him Doom (for both Holy Freeze and a faster killer). Or--my favorite--get an A1 Rogue merc and give her an Ice bow (for Holy Freeze on a merc who will never die to maiden). So many new possibilities...

    But like I said, the new-found independence from the merc is just icing on the cake. The cake itself is that, on average, holding Infinity yourself will give you FAR more damage than any other orb/weapon/shield combo possibly can.

    Nor does carrying Infinity diminish your safety at all. You can still run ES (and now give Insight to your merc), for almost total invulnerability. Or forget about ES and pump all the attack synergies instead, relying on gear with resists, PDR, and FHR to keep you safe.

    Maybe I should write a guide to the Infinity-toting, fully-synergized lightning sorceress...
     
  13. Xenon[XoA]

    Xenon[XoA] Banned

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    Eschutas is a poor example of a lightning weap, Hoto is much more efficient =/

    It's not purely about damage though. You gain much more in terms of dR, life/mana/resists, than if you carted it by hand. Ie, Survivability. While maintaining cast speed. The faster you cast, the more damage you get in overall, so while a slightly lesser max damage may be a turnoff, with a faster cast rate, it's more damage overall. If you wield infinity on main, in order to keep up to the 117fc lightning bp, you are faced with 2 consequences pretty much. Fork out lots of runes for the efficient highend gear, or your survivability suffers.
     
  14. WrathTalon

    WrathTalon IncGamers Member

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    Duh, how'd I overlook Hoto? :rolleyes: Yes, it would be more efficient than Eschutas.

    But as for FCR, I think it's overrated. Sure, I know that a faster cast rate gives more damage overall. My calculations above were NOT based solely on the simple damage per attack. They include the total extra damage output attained through higher FCR; I figured them in.

    Achieving maximum FCR is nice. But it's overrated as an end-all in itself. It's important, but not always THAT important. And in this case, it's not important at all. Holding Infinity yourself, you'll get 40% FCR just from Arach and Magefist. That gives a 15-frame lighning attack. Even with maxed fast cast, at the 117% FCR breakpoint, you'll only get a 12-frame attack. 12-frame is only 25% faster than a 15-frame. So, go to all the trouble to hit the last 117% FCR breakpoint, and you'll be dishing out only 25% more damage than you would with a simple 40% FCR. 25% more damage may sound like a lot--but it absolutely pales in comparison with the extra damage from the -5x enemy resist mod on Infinity. That's why the problem of how to achieve a 117% FCR while holding Infinity is a false one. It's false because there is absolutely no need to have lots of fast cast when holding Infinity. Cradle it in your arms yourself, settle for the "measly" 40% FCR you get from just Arach and Magefist--and you'll still dish out much more total damage over time than you would wearing Spirit and Hoto and putting the polearm on your merc.

    And I just don't think compromised survivability is a real issue. True, if you go the ES route, you'll probably need an Insight for the merc--but holding Infinity yourself is what allows you to PUT the Insight on the merc, and this gives you near invulnerability. Xenon, YOU're the guy who included this in your guide--I know you know this. :smiley: And if you don't go ES, then a CoA, CoH, and Shadow Dancer, along with Maras, will give you all the survivability you need: 35% PDR, maxed resists (assuming the standard accoutrements of anni and torch), and 60% FHR. You'll still teleport in perfect safety, even with only 40 FCR, because of the PDR and the fact that you've reduced your hit recovery in half. And with this gear, and any merc beside you, you can tank monsters yourself. Most of the time they won't even get close, and even in 8-player games, they won't have enough time to pose any real threat to you before you sizzle them.

    Sure, this is high-end and very expensive gear. But I figure that anybody with an Infinity will probably have access to this other stuff as well... If you happen to have Infinity but no Insight or Coa, then putting it on your merc and grabbing a Hoto is probably the better (i.e., safer) option, true. But all the shortcomings of carrying an Infinity yourself (loss of fast cast, resists, plus-skills, life, mana) can be either made up for in gear (such as resists) or don't matter in the big picture (such as FC) because the piddly loss in FC is more than made up for by the massive damage bonus of Infinity's -resist mod.
     
  15. Xenon[XoA]

    Xenon[XoA] Banned

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    Mana burn was a major problem with the nova sorc though :x
    While that was mostly restricted to chaosing ~ venom lords and such ~ manaburn on an esbased sorc is still a pain in the ***. It's not insta-kill or anything, but it does often crash the eshield which is rather annoying when you're midpack :s

    The only other thing was, he didnt mention if he would be rushing with this sorc - in which case, teleport speed should also be taken into consideration. Just doesn't really make sense to me, using lotsa high end gear on a pvm only character. buT i guess that's because I play mostly pvp.
     
  16. melianor

    melianor D3 Wizard Moderator

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    moderator note
    Next time you don't understand what someone tries to say, spare the sarcasm and ask. Thank you. Where to hold Infinity or not is determined by different values than yes/no...
     
  17. WrathTalon

    WrathTalon IncGamers Member

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    Ooooh, that would be scary. I always forget about this possibility. :sad2: Probably because I don't use ES myself. I went the fully-synergized attack route, relying on melee gear to keep me safe. Venom Lords still burn, but then it's only a minor annoyance rather than potentially serious. Run away at high speed (here the 35% FRW from Infinity really helps), chug one mana pot, and you're back in business.

    Ah, good point. Hadn't thought of that. Yeah, if doing lots of rushing, the higher teleport speed would be nice indeed. :scratch:

    If I ever get around to writing this build up, I'll have to be sure to include these caveats and nuances.
     
  18. Keldon Hero

    Keldon Hero IncGamers Member

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    Sorry about the sarcasm but thats my personality. Thx for all the help.
     
  19. theredpredator

    theredpredator IncGamers Member

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    I dont see how a ~50 more dmg overdoes using plus 5 skills. Its plus 5 lightning, plus 5 to all its synergies, plus 5 mastery. ALso a escutas has a facet, saying 15_ 5/5= 25. So only 25 more to match. I think 5 all skills accomplishes that. ALso you will have better faster cast rate. Thus throwing more lightning then with a infinity.

    Just give the poor merc a goal k?
     

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