Latest Diablo 3 News
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by dirkdig, Sep 9, 2006.

1. ### MerickDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Jun 22, 2003
Messages:
6,862
1
Trophy Points:
466
Eh, I got FFX and FFX-2 for 15 bucks each, I can't complain.

2. ### FreetDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Jun 24, 2003
Messages:
4,180
9
Trophy Points:
466
Close but no cigar.

If the water is the current then gravity would be the voltage. Voltage is the force that causes the electrons to migrate through the conductor just as gravity causes the water to flow in a river.

And I have to add one more thing here. It really burns my *** when someone says "it's not the volts, but the amps that kill you"

The amount of amps traveling through an object is soley dependant on Ohm's Law. Have you ever checked an automobile battery by shorting the positive and negative terminals with a screwdriver or plyers? If you do this to a good battery sparks will fly and you will burn the end of the screwdriver where it touched the battery. But if you touch the pos and neg terminals with your fingers, you won't even feel a shock. Again, blame it on Ohm's Law.

Ohm's Law states that the amount of current (amps) passing through an object is solely dependant on resistance and voltage (actual formula is I=E/R where I=current E=voltage and R=resistance). If the voltage stays the same but the resistance is less then more current will flow. If the resistance is the same but the voltage increases the current will increase.

The screwdriver in the previous example is less than one ohm in resistance. So the 12 volts in the battery (actually around 13.6 volts in a good battery) has little resistance and allows a great amount of current to pass. If you lick your fingers and touch the two leads of an ohm meter you will see that the average resistance in a human body is around 50k (50,000) ohms. In the case of the battery the screwdriver will pass more than 13 amps where the body will pass around .00025 amps. Not enough to even feel.

So, as you can see, current is totally dependant on voltage and resistance. So current without voltage doesn't even exist. To say the amps are what kill you is a misnomer.

Even though most people probably won't even read this I still feel better now. :smiley:

3. ### JohnnyBanned

Joined:
Jun 22, 2003
Messages:
9,101
0
Trophy Points:
0
Its an example given by a man with more electric engineering knowledge in his pinky than you have in your whole body

Though ofcourse it isnt the EXACT same thing its a good example.

4. ### ThyiadModerator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

Joined:
Mar 3, 2006
Messages:
15,022
239
Trophy Points:
488
I read it. I don't understand it, but I read it. Happy now? :wink3:

Joined:
Aug 30, 2005
Messages:
757
0
Trophy Points:
255

Reistance is futile.

6. ### bg1256Diabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Oct 16, 2004
Messages:
4,436
1
Trophy Points:
466
You must demand a refund and a new laptop. If you have any documentation whatsoever concerning the Geek Squad's advice, that should suffice. And don't just take it when they tell you no, because they will. If you make a big enough scene, Best Buy will do something for you. They care a lot about their appearance in their store.

Slightly OT: CompUSA has much better technicians than Best Buy. I did a little research awhile back and discovered that the Best Buy Geek Squad techs have almost no training whatsoever. They have basic, minimal training. The CompUSA techs aren't all that much better, but I try to buy electronics there instead of Best Buy when I can...

7. ### FreetDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Jun 24, 2003
Messages:
4,180
9
Trophy Points:
466
My degree is in electronics and worked in the field for 15 years. I know something about this stuff.

8. ### ffejrxxDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Nov 26, 2005
Messages:
6,286
13
Trophy Points:
166
iv swapped the guts on many power supplies (due to compaq putting 110w power supplies in ther boxes that cant fit a standard one), never been shocked yet :knock on wood:

9. ### Raistlin MajereDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Jul 14, 2004
Messages:
3,617
2
Trophy Points:
255
So much anger in this thread, so much hate....

10. ### QuietusDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Mar 11, 2005
Messages:
5,470
3
Trophy Points:
346
And so much information! :thumbsup: thanks Freet!

Joined:
Nov 27, 2005
Messages:
4,322
1
Trophy Points:
466
I'd file a complaint with the BBB as well. You do not want those guys knocking on your door if you're a business owner. And, as has already been said, don't take "No" for an answer from Best Buy. Piss and moan and complain until you get the store manager. Just make sure you have documentation on Geek Squad's advice, and then documentation on how your buddy fixed the laptop. And then threaten them with a lawsuit.

12. ### CandidusMortisBanned

Joined:
Nov 4, 2005
Messages:
208
0
Trophy Points:
0
I haven't really had a problem with Best Buy, but I've never really had them fix anything. The biggest problem that I had was with a rebate that they messed up. I ended up going to BB, talking to a manager, and walked out with \$70 in cash when the turned my rebate directly into cash.

13. ### StoutwoodDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Mar 17, 2004
Messages:
3,695
0
Trophy Points:
255
Voltage is certainly an issue. Your skin is roughly 300 Ohms, so if you get a 30 Volt shock, then I=V/R and you hit the death zone of .1 Amps.

Still, if someone manages to kill themself on a computer, I'm glad that they have been removed from the gene pool.

14. ### CandidusMortisBanned

Joined:
Nov 4, 2005
Messages:
208
0
Trophy Points:
0
IIRC, it has to be .1 Amps across the heart, and even then, it doesn't mean death. It isn't just an issue of Volts or Amps, it's both. Certainly the insides of a power supply can kill you, I think the large capacitors in mine were 400 volts. I've purposely been shocked with 10,000 volts before, in science class. That was interesting, holding the instrument in one hand, and a flourescent lightbulb in the other, and watching half of it light up. Again, IIRC, it takes 10,000 volts of electricity to jump 1 inch, no?

15. ### MerickDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Jun 22, 2003
Messages:
6,862
1
Trophy Points:
466
Haven't I heard that the BBB just puts businesses with complaints in a book? I haven't heard anything about them doing something worthwhile.

16. ### StoutwoodDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Mar 17, 2004
Messages:
3,695
0
Trophy Points:
255
Yeah, it's across the heart, but considering you are grounded through your legs, it usually goes through there when you get shocked. But yeah, if you are just turning a bolt with a wrench and you accidently complete the circuit, you won't die. The death zone is about .1 - .3 Amps, so anything within there should kill you or severely damage your heart. Once again, voltage won't necessarily kill you. If you grab onto two sides of a 500 Volt DC circuit with high internal resistance, you'll be fine. I beleive E_max for air is around 3 million Volts/meter, which makes it about 76,000 Volts to make a 1 inch spark.

Joined:
Nov 27, 2005
Messages:
4,322
1
Trophy Points:
466

I'm pretty sure that they do quite a bit more. I'm not sure about thier actual powers, but I think that they'll point you in the right direction and would be able to offer legal choices to help you on your way. Plus, it looks really bad to have your business name on the bad list from the BBB.

18. ### buttershugDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Feb 13, 2005
Messages:
8,207
5
Trophy Points:
255
That 300 Ohms might be a rough average but there would be huge variation especially in the hands.
A blacksmith probably had closer to 30K Ohms resistance in his hands.
I tried to think who might have the most callouses and scar tissue.

edit: I just realized we are not talking about the exact same thing skin resistance. I'm thinking you meaning across a single layer of skin. But you would really need to count two layers, and blood probably doesn't contribute much.

19. ### DondreiDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Aug 1, 2005
Messages:
36,859
33
Trophy Points:
469
That's what I was thinking. Although you mean a misconception rather than a misnomer; a misnomer is an incorrect name for something.

20. ### MerickDiabloii.Net Member

Joined:
Jun 22, 2003
Messages:
6,862
1
Trophy Points:
466
Checkmate.