Best pvp wb maul weapon

[Voice]

Best pvp wb maul weapon

I'm curious to see which peopler perfer

 

[Voice]

whoever voted other please specify ......

 

[Furo]

Other: 3x 40/15 Ias Jewels, 2x Shael Rune, Lo Rune. 85% Ias on PB = 5 Frame Maul with decent dmg and DS, its basiclly Pauls old phase, works pretty well on Mauler.

 

[Voice]

Doh forgot to add custom pb . Thanks for explaining btw.

 

[ToThePoint]

how can that phase be considered better than a 3 ed.ias shael caddy?
perf caddy 170-219
perf phase 72-82 with 20DS
assume 6 30max and 117 max in charms for best case with phase
base damages :
caddy 170-516 = 343 average
phase 72-379 = 225 average
with 20ds (best case again for phase no other DS) = 270 average = lots lower.

This poll is basically a 5 frame vs 4 frame poll as these are arguably the best weapons which richish people can get.

 

[Weltkriegpally]

how can that phase be considered better than a 3 ed.ias shael caddy?
perf caddy 170-219
perf phase 72-82 with 20DS
assume 6 30max and 117 max in charms for best case with phase
base damages :
caddy 170-516 = 343 average
phase 72-379 = 225 average
with 20ds (best case again for phase no other DS) = 270 average = lots lower.

This poll is basically a 5 frame vs 4 frame poll as these are arguably the best weapons which richish people can get.

Mayhap you better take a look at your charm mods again. I am pretty sure 10+max grands can be gotten, and the ar/damage on those is superior to that found on smalls. Now I am not arguing the point that a 5 fpa phase is superior to a caddy, only that some of your statement is incorrect.

--welt

 

[ToThePoint]

Mayhap you better take a look at your charm mods again. I am pretty sure 10+max grands can be gotten, and the ar/damage on those is superior to that found on smalls. Now I am not arguing the point that a 5 fpa phase is superior to a caddy, only that some of your statement is incorrect.

--welt

Mayhap you are bitter.. but anyways using a 10max or a 14 max will lose alot of life and will be best case for neither.
Even using 14s and 4s for the phase and 3max scs for the caddy it is still inferior in terms of damage output.

 

[Kirby Hunter]

I'm curious to see which peopler perfer

O_O are maul bears stil alive?
And id go with the custom phase
I have 3
15 ed 4 shael ed/ias
15 ed 4 shael ias/ar
15 ed 4 shael ias/res >_<

 

[Voice]

O_O are maul bears stil alive?
And id go with the custom phase
I have 3
15 ed 4 shael ias/ar
15 ed 4 shael ias/res >_<

These are only worth using on fc bears since you are getting your damage from a skill not the weapon itself. Thus using one of these on a mauler is sucide.

@ToThePoint I got interested and ran some numbers in a excel spreedsheet that I made for wb damage on 5 frame phase vs. caddy using about 6-7 different gear setups that I been looking at and here are some basic numbers that I got.

Best damage I can get out of phase w/o charms but with gear on a titan build is: 487.35 - 751.1175

Best for caddy is: 1551.825 1782.675, titan build again and both are using fortitude.

Now however I took the liberty of adding your preciousl 3/20's and here are the damage numbers I got back.

pb 487.35-2304.225 (Average is 1396 When rounded)

caddy 1551.825-3338.775 (Average is 2446 when rounded)

You might think this proves your point but I have yet to take into account that the pb is based on 85% chance for ds (20 guilliums, 30 hl, 15 gores, 20 pb) While caddy is only based on 45% chance.

Which basically means it comes down to will ds go off enough at 5 frames for it to be worth it. B/c if it does go off consistently it will bump the pb damage average to 2791. I think this weapon may have its uses but I would still rather go 4 frames if using pb and caddy if going 5 frames.

Okay I'm done rambling ....

 

[ToThePoint]

These are only worth using on fc bears since you are getting your damage from a skill not the weapon itself. Thus using one of these on a mauler is sucide.

@ToThePoint I got interested and ran some numbers in a excel spreedsheet that I made for wb damage on 5 frame phase vs. caddy using about 6-7 different gear setups that I been looking at and here are some basic numbers that I got.

Best damage I can get out of phase w/o charms but with gear on a titan build is: 487.35 - 751.1175

Best for caddy is: 1551.825 1782.675, titan build again and both are using fortitude.

Now however I took the liberty of adding your preciousl 3/20's and here are the damage numbers I got back.

pb 487.35-2304.225 (Average is 1396 When rounded)

caddy 1551.825-3338.775 (Average is 2446 when rounded)

You might think this proves your point but I have yet to take into account that the pb is based on 85% chance for ds (20 guilliums, 30 hl, 15 gores, 20 pb) While caddy is only based on 45% chance.

Which basically means it comes down to will ds go off enough at 5 frames for it to be worth it. B/c if it does go off consistently it will bump the pb damage average to 2791. I think this weapon may have its uses but I would still rather go 4 frames if using pb and caddy if going 5 frames.

Okay I'm done rambling ....

To show that caddy is better than that 5 frame phase you dont need to calc final damages.
Any added DS favours the caddy as each time you add DS the relative increase in damage decreases. So phase is at its best in terms of DS at 0DS from other sources.
If phase is beaten at this point it cant get better. It was beaten so my point is proved.

There is no 'if it goes off consistently'. You cant say that unless its 100% so its all time averaged.
Also i dont see why you compare 85% phase with 45% caddy seeing the phase only has 20% but i guess this was just small typo or something.

They are not 'my precious' 3/20s - i dont use them and wont but on the forum they are very commonly used and are comparable to legit max/life for calculations.

In terms of damage over time caddy is way ahead of 4 frame phase (around 30%) but i found that i often got interupted due to slow attack speed and less stunning so i think 4 frame was better.
Calcs cant really show which of those is best - only experience.

 

[Voice]

Calcs cant really show which of those is best - only experience.

I'm lost .... calcs cant show which is best between 4 frame pb but can vs. 5 frame. :scratch:

Not taking into account the extra ds between the two doesnt make any sense since many forumers will argue the best way to get more damage is not to use ed jewels but stack ds. (Point ds = damage)

Also to also to almost dismiss the 5frame pb all together is kind of wrong. I know I forgot to mention it in poll (was tired when I made poll), but its like dismissing the estar in the best pvp fury weapon. Sure many people will deny it because they have no experience with it but doesn’t mean that it still can’t be competitive (Like garbad said took 1st and 3rd on uswest dvd duels in 09). The same can be said for the 5 fps pb, it was arguably the best maul weapon in 09 and to just dismiss it b/c caddy does more solid damage is preposterous especially when you are gaining 20 ds which isnt easy to come by with a lot of builds, (esp. if wearing angelics etc.)

Basically you solved the problem for me .... 'experience is the key'. I know some non-forumers who have edc's on mules b/c their pallys win a lot more with erazor. Theoretically this should not be the case but in reality it is. The same can go for the pb ....

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Sigh...Sillly Little bears....trust the vets...

phase

60-68, + 0-117 max (scs), + 0-240 max (4 30 max armor, one in storm, 3 in helm, generic bear setup). 60-425, avg 242.5 at 4 frames.

caddy

170-197, + 0-117 max (scs), + 0-240 max (4 30 max armor, one in storm, 3 in helm). 170-554, avg 362 at 5 frames.

In the time a caddy can get 4 hits, the phase gets 5 (least common denominator). This means the damage over time is 1212.5 vs 1448. 84% as much damage over time and you get the additional chance of crushing, ow, and more chance of getting hits off before your horrible fhr/fbr kick in.

Phase is clearly the best bear weapon, as vic and others have said many times.

The only other viable options I know of is grief phase, 7 frames, 36-796, 20% deadly, average 499, over time, 1996.8 vs 1697.5 phase. Easier to gear around tho, giving you potentially better other mods (I ran the calcs with the same armor and helm, but you would probably use Guilgs and fort, boosting your dmg much higher). Still, 7 frames is far too slow for pvp imo.

Garbad

 

[ToThePoint]

I'm lost .... calcs cant show which is best between 4 frame pb but can vs. 5 frame. :scratch:

calcs can show which is best 4 frame weapon or which is the best 5 frame weapon but comparison between 4 and 5 frame has other things to consider such as block/stun/fhr/OW/CB etc. When comparing like with like they are ignored.

Not taking into account the extra ds between the two doesnt make any sense since many forumers will argue the best way to get more damage is not to use ed jewels but stack ds. (Point ds = damage)

It DOES make sense - the case with no DS favours that custom phase as when you add DS the higher base damage gets more benefit. The phase was worse in its best light so will be worse in a worse case.
example:
100 with 50% deadly vs 150 with no deadly.... both end up with 150.
now add 50% deadly to both so its 100 with 100% and 150 with 50%... its 200 vs 225. Its the same for the phase vs caddy.
Thats the reason it is dismissed - its an inferior weapon and afaik costs more.
The only mods which vary are damage and deadly - those can be taken into account easily with calcs.
the case of baranas is different due to bonus ar, stats, ele damage - alot harder.
Deadly strike is not that amazing if you have no damage to get crits on.

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Btw, I grossly understated griefs dmg. It should be 436 min, not 36.

Garbad