no i mean they can simply fall back however cyclone armour is recastable giving some kinda tanking and the barb is used for leap meaning the only effective dmg is the aura which can be easily stacked.. ?+ if the smiter is using salvation on the party that is more effective stacking..
Best overall 4v4 team?
- Thread starter MysticDragon
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tinncann25
Diabloii.Net Member
I guess if i was facing 4 completely stacked players...maybe ill lose haha
but other than that in a normal game if we are only talking about a hammerdin and maybe just one aura, the team doesnt sound all too bad.
yeah if it a 1 vs 4 situation yes u have a chance again it depends on how well built the hammerdin is + skill it maybe able to take down 3 of those chars but with a hammerdin vs hammerdin it can go 50/50 depending on no mistakes etc.
cuz hammerdin strong points is the ability to tank almost all types of dmg while retaining high life/fhr/and dmg even somee dr.
Uncle_Mike
D2 PvP Moderator
such comments are not welcome honestly...read the rules please in case I've failed to get the joke...
stuslegend
Diabloii.Net Member
a trapper does force Lo's thats true... but a bowzon ****s up anyone without max block and forces them to play defensive
you must be from the "other" forum.....
Uncle_Mike
D2 PvP Moderator
marcello
Banned
I voted for BvC, Windy, Hammerdin and Boner. Yes, all of the parts are quite necessary and they power each other up. Let's see:
BvC
+Provides additional Life, Mana and Defense
+Provides Leap
+Provides a lvl 24 Holy Freeze
+Can stand alone versus most characters
Windy
+Provides tremendous additional Life
+Provides you with a close-range caster offense
+Can stand alone versus most characters
Hammerdin
+Provides you with Concentration (multiplies the BvCs damage)
+Provides you with other Auras, such as Meditation
+Provides you with a short-range magical damage offense
+Provides you with an almost immortal defense via Blessed Hammer
+Can stand alone versus most characters
Boner
+Provides you with Amplify Damage and Decrepify (both multiplying the effectiveness of both the Windy and the BvC)
+Provides you with Bone Wall
+Provides you with possible summones
+Provides you with a long-range magical offense
+Provides you with the perfect defense versus melee's via Iron Maiden
+Provides the BvC with Life Tap
See? Yes, this team has little ranged offense but it's defenses are top-notch: the members have extremely high life, defense against all close-range attackers, the capability of stunning anything and everything when they get on the screen and an extremely good ranged offense.
BvC
+Provides additional Life, Mana and Defense
+Provides Leap
+Provides a lvl 24 Holy Freeze
+Can stand alone versus most characters
Windy
+Provides tremendous additional Life
+Provides you with a close-range caster offense
+Can stand alone versus most characters
Hammerdin
+Provides you with Concentration (multiplies the BvCs damage)
+Provides you with other Auras, such as Meditation
+Provides you with a short-range magical damage offense
+Provides you with an almost immortal defense via Blessed Hammer
+Can stand alone versus most characters
Boner
+Provides you with Amplify Damage and Decrepify (both multiplying the effectiveness of both the Windy and the BvC)
+Provides you with Bone Wall
+Provides you with possible summones
+Provides you with a long-range magical offense
+Provides you with the perfect defense versus melee's via Iron Maiden
+Provides the BvC with Life Tap
See? Yes, this team has little ranged offense but it's defenses are top-notch: the members have extremely high life, defense against all close-range attackers, the capability of stunning anything and everything when they get on the screen and an extremely good ranged offense.
Jerametrius
Diabloii.Net Member
hammer (conc aura, can defend zon against melee)
bvc (leap + bo, conc and amp from necro result in huge damage)
necro (amp and magic damage)
bowazon (key to the team... massive damage from conc and amp, stunned targets from the barbs leap, protection from melee from the hammer)
bvc (leap + bo, conc and amp from necro result in huge damage)
necro (amp and magic damage)
bowazon (key to the team... massive damage from conc and amp, stunned targets from the barbs leap, protection from melee from the hammer)
And that is exactly where your flaw lies. As long as your Bowazon can be killed via ranged attacks, your team is fishfood. And believe me, that is easily done.
Not to mention that your Bowazon is extremely vulnerable versus Leap + dual Dooms as it results in a pro-longed D/A/E animation or knockback or stun. Now, not only that, but Leap will also separate the bowazon from the Hammerdin, making the bowazon vulnerable to close-range attacks. At this point, the only problems are the BvC and the Bonemancer. I believe the Bonemancer can be easily taken down with a Windy and the BvC is toast against a good Bonemancer. With that, you are down to Hammerdin + Bowazon. Wanna bet who's going to win in a face-to-face tanking, a max block 50% PDR bonemancer or a bowazon?
Of course, that's in theory only, as it would require extremely high luck and planning for something like that to happen countless times over and over again.
However, I'll say that the bowazon team is quite equal to the bvc/windy/bonemancer/hammerdin team in terms of defense. So, it comes down to offense. Which can, as I already pointed out, be shattered with a careful plan.
And surely as hell I'm willing to bet that duels between a bowazon/bonemancer/bvc/hammerdin team and a bonemancer/bvc/hammerdin/windy team would be interesting as hell.
HappyAssassin
Diabloii.Net Member
I still maintain the trapper is necessary, the opening it creates with traplock are too good to pass up. Most of the kills in 4v4s come from one team member stunning while antoher kills. Windy + Trapper or Amp BvC + Trapper are murder on anyone caught outside the cover of their team.
I agree. A trapper is more essential than a bowa and windy at least. Not to mention that a trapper has relatively similar matchups against the classes that a windy is normally used against, being paladins, certain sorc builds, and other sins. Being able to mb and double team for a quick kill is too good an option to pass up. That aside, a trapper has just as many ways to integrate with a team as a windy, giving ranged offense, locking ability as well as compatibility with necros and anything with conviction .
Gandolph
Diabloii.Net Member
Well of course YOU would say that
Where's Kiba to declare that the Windy is the key to the whole team? 
inanefedaykin
Diabloii.Net Member
Nah, I'm the Wolfen Empire's windy fanatic. It's true though, the windy does all the damage and tanks all the hits. Where would any of these teams be without their level 40 oak sages?
It depends on what your team is lacking. A team that consists of a BvC, a Bonemancer and a Hammerdin has very high defense but lacks a bit in the offense. However, the best result is always the one where all team members can stand alone versus most opponents. A Trapper is pretty much toast if facing anything with 85%-95% Lightning Resistances with a ranged attack or massive life.
Double-teaming is all fine and dandy, but if you think about it, the average damage of a trapper is quite low. Yes, they do have 10 blasts and 5 traps, but the average damage of a single trap, even at 14 000 damage is a mere 7000, meaning 8925 for the whole load at 85% LR. That's the problem: the reductionable damage and the slow applying of higher amounts of damage. A windy would do ~510 per hit. I know, it's not much, but couple that with Amplify Damage and you are at 1530 per hit. And this is of course assuming 50% PDR to start with.
I'm not saying that trappers are useless or something, they can be a good part of a team, but it almost requires 1v2 situations, which is not good. Imagine a trapper facing a Bonemancer and a BvC 1v2. How will the trapper have a chance of victory when the BvC deals such high damage as 1403 per Grief hit and 529 per Beast hit? Even if they had 4500 life, they would be toast in quite a short time, even more so considering the ~800 damage added to each two whirls from the Bone spears/spirits of a Bonemancer. The first two whirls that connect will alone deal 4135 damage, which I believe is enough to annihilate almost all Assassins.
That's even more problems. You end up depending on Conviction and 1v2 situations. That means, at best, your team would look like BvC/Trapper/Bonemancer/V/T. Which does not look too good. Not that it would such either, just does not compare to some other teams.
Of course, in the end it all comes down to how the team duels. I, for example, would like a team where all the members can stand alone and wreck havoc as a team, ripping apart almost if not everything. I know, TvT's are supposed to be team-based duels, but there will always be a situation where one member of the opposing team will be facing one or more of the members of the opposing team with no other team members left. And if you ignore that fact, you are up for trouble.
Conversely speaking, a trapper basically forces LOs in the other team. I don't disagree that each member needs to be able to stand up to the other team individually, but am rather suggesting that a trapper is able to mesh extremely well with a wide range of characters, meaning the team as a whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
In a team that has access to conviction and lower resists, a trapper would be extremely useful, not to mention the ranged offense. Traplocks and mb basically force the other team to use LOs and increase fhr, while even if damage may not be devastating, it would add up with conviction and LR, and locks opponents up for a BVC tri-whirl, a tele hammer or a bone spear/mb/trap lock. A trapper holds its own well enough to stay alive against any class due to claw block, and enables 2v1 situations very well.
Of course, a trapper would not do well 1v2, but the point is that a trapper enables its team to get the 2v1s, meaning there is less of a chance to get into a situation where its team is actually outnumbered. Give and take situation, to be honest.
I would actually have a boner/bvc/mage/trapper. That way, you have a hammerdin and conviction in one, with the concentration overlapping with the bvc, while the trapper sets up killing situations for the rest, and the boner is used for utility spells. Curses, spear lock etc.
In the end, I guess it all comes down to preference and the team's style, but hte argument for a trapper is just as sound as that for a windy, in my opinion. It all boils down to whether or not the team can execute to get ahead in the numbers game.
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