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Best MF Sorc?

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by Papasmurf90, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. Papasmurf90

    Papasmurf90 IncGamers Member

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    Best MF Sorc?

    Okay,

    Finally decided to bite the bullet and I'm just going to make a Sorc to use as my MF character. I just don't know what to build. Orb/TK, Meteorb, Blizz, and FW Sorcs all seem like popular options. What would you guys recommend for the MF'in hotspots?

    I'd probably like to go with a build that doesn't require a ton of good items.

    Thanks.
     
  2. bigD72

    bigD72 IncGamers Member

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    Take your pick...

    Really, they'll all do the job.

    The FW sorc is a bit dated though.

    If your going to run everything Meteorb.

    If you don't have good items to keep you alive, Orb/Tk.

    If you have mediocre items to keep you alive Blizz.
     
  3. Ironwill

    Ironwill IncGamers Member

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    Just wondering why would you play a MF Sorc in HC.

    Seems to me like you are taking helluva risk, when you could make a MF Necro is more safe IMO. Obviously you are going to sacrifice safety gear for MF gear the sorcy seems like the most item dependant when it come to her safety in HC (shield, +life, +resist, etc..) since she has nothing to stop a direct hit.

    A necro has his minions buffers
    An amazon has her evading skills and can get up to 3 minions
    A barb has a gazillion hits pts, natural defense and insane armor
    A Pally has godly shielding and resistances
    An assassin in most cases (trapsin) never directly exposed, plus has an additional minion
    The druid same as a necro.

    What does the sorcy has to protect herself from a direct hit?
    Her gear. If that gear is not up there to deal with Hell you might get in trouble.

    But if your whole point is to actually play a sorcy because that what you want to play disregard what I just said ;).

    Otherwise, you might wanna reconsider your choice.
     
  4. LuckyDwarf

    LuckyDwarf IncGamers Member

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    Energy shield. Patience. These two things will carry a sorc to greatness.

    Lucky
     
  5. bigD72

    bigD72 IncGamers Member

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    Well, if you're building a sorc to mf without twinking. One primarily stays in NM and farms andy and meph. They are easy to get to, surrounding enemies pose little threat.

    The only gear that I required to do hell mfing before leaving nm was a wizspike, skin of vipermagi, and whitstans. All of which are easily obtainable from NM Meph. Before finding those 3 things however, I managed to find even better stuff to trade off for more/better gear.

    It's not really about how much mf you're wearing, it's about how quickly you can kill safely. Getting a sorc with a decent fcr bp a few points in e-shield and 1X-20 points in tk and basically any killing skill will do fine for viability as far as mfing. Now, granted you would "want" atleast 200-300 mf, get an ali baba, a rhyme shield, and a 3 p topaz helm and you've got all the mf you need until you find better stuff, (if you've quested you've probably found 2 mf jewels to put in the baba also.)

    So really, she's not item dependant at all to mf nm where most of the mid-range "useful" items can be found. I found 2 Heralds of Zakarum from NM Meph, an Occy, couple of lidless, skin of viper magi, several useful set pieces.

    So now the main point of using the Sorc, teleport. I average 4 minutes on a meph run and 2 minutes on an Andy run teleporting. If I were to use a summoner, probably closer to 25 minutes all together, thats ~20% as many runs. So over an hour I've done 10 with the Sorc and 2 maybe 3 with the necro.

    Granted the mf sorc WILL DIE, but if you build her right, she'll only die to nasty named monsters or a conviction MSLE bremm (RIP my original mf sorc.) The necromancer I would say has probably 1% chance of dying compared to the Sorc, but that benefit doesn't outway the speed the sorc provides in my opinion.

    [/rambling]
     
  6. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    I wouldn't say that. I make a Cold/TK Sorc at the beginning of every ladder season and I don't think I've lost a single one. If she's built to run Andy and Meph, and you stick to those areas (with possibly the occasional Ancient Tunnels run), you'll be fine. It's when people start getting foolish that bad things happen, like trying to kill the Council on your way to Meph or trying to tele Baal runs for friends before you're equipped for the trip. Build her for what you want to do and stick to the plan; you should be fine.
     
  7. Papasmurf90

    Papasmurf90 IncGamers Member

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    Okay, thanks. I guess I'll just build her for Meph and Andy. For an untwinked character, you would recommend Orb/TK? If so, I'll just go with that. Anyone have a guide for an Orb/TK build?

    Thanks.
     
  8. Rekoc

    Rekoc IncGamers Member

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  9. Papasmurf90

    Papasmurf90 IncGamers Member

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    Thank you. Going with the Orb/TK for Andy and Meph.

    Quick question, in the guide he just says enough Str and Dex for end game items and max block. Since I don't really know what I'm going to be using, what's a good number to shoot for for Str and Dex?

    Thanks.
     
  10. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    Nope... NM Meph cannot drop a wizardspike. NM Baal can, and has decent chances of dropping it too.
    Again, nope. She will die if one is not patient, careful, or take risks. Knowing the enemy spells/attacks is a plus too. If you can get to Hell Meph without any big trouble, Meph isn't too hard. Meph will only cast blizzard if he cannot see you (line of sight.) His cold ball and lightning are both fairly easy to dodge. His charged bolt can be teleported (carefully to remain in his sight) around quite easily.
    Although it is dangerous, it's not fatal if you know how to do it. I don't, and am happy to stay with NM Meph for duriel's, HoZ, guardian angel's, etc. If I were to do it though, I'd feel fairly comfortable after getting past the regular monsters. I would like some more resists though.
    My Blizzard sorc does fine while running Ancient Tunnels, and she's yet to get some more equipment (resists mainly) to do hell meph too.

    @Rekoc.
    I can't finish reading that guide. It says you want level 32 cold mastery? Level 17 is good enough after skills.
    Also, level 20 teleport or warmth? 1 point in both of these are fine. +Skills will get them high enough. You're a sorceress. You have plenty of mana to teleport around.
    To me, that guide seems quite excessive. Maybe take some advice from it, but if you're not sure about something, feel free to ask. I wouldn't take that to the letter.

    @OP
    It depends on where you're MF'ing. Ancient Tunnels are quite good for a cold sorc (no CI's, except for some uniques.) Blizz sorc's also go well for meph running.
     
  11. Rekoc

    Rekoc IncGamers Member

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    Its a guide...doesnt mean you have to follow everything if you dont like it, its suppose to GUIDE you in the right direction. I think it is an excelent build. 10 in warmth/tele would mean you have enough mana to cast your spells without drinking a blue pot every 5 seconds and you can have a decent merc that can survive...if you could read the rest of the guide it explains everything.

    Its mainly an untwinked guide. And this gets you a long ways...you can go on and this be a main character because if you follow it your sorc will be built very well. Any more questions just ask and I will answer the best I can.
     
  12. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    What does that mean? Don't follow everything it has to say.

    My new Guardian, blizz sorc, does fine with 1 in warmth, 1 in teleport, untwinked, SP, no telekenesis, no Static field, no Dex, Cold mastery level 10'ish, and only 1 Cold skiller.
    She has low mana, but doesn't really have many problems.

    B.netters astound me.
     
  13. Socialism

    Socialism IncGamers Member

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    1) I find that not using telekinesis slows me down considerably in almost every aspect of the game outside of killing things -- I TK waypoints, chests, stash, portals, ID / TP scrolls when I need 'em, GOLD (yes... I'm a gold fiend), monsters that are element immune so they stop smacking around my merc...

    2) Do you play on /players "more than one" settings?

    3) You don't deal with lag; we deal with spikes every now and then - therefore build as safely as bloody possible, because lag will happen, and we have a huge chance of dying because of it

    4) I'd imagine very, very few of these guys are patient - mostly because they know what parts of the game are the ones they enjoy, and they're trying to get there as fast as possible, usually. Most MFers like seeing gold, green, and yellow stuff drop. Frequently. So they can put this aforementioned stuff on characters they may/may not like to play.

    5) I'm one to talk. I've made ~8-9 fully built mf chars in my time... and never REALLY MFed with any of them. I'm lazy AND impatient. Terrible combination.
     
  14. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    1. Each to their own. It does seem like a novelty if you max it, UNLESS if you use it for a high level Energy shield. Not useful to help you survive Unless you're based around ES. I'm not even sure why you mentioned TK unless you just wanted to prove someone wrong.

    2. /players8 til they just get too powerful (usually in hell) or I forget. But keep in mind that players8 in a single player game increases the damage 1 player has to do, increases the amount of damage monsters do to 1 character, and there's no friends to help with immunities, frenzytaurs or anything like that. And these are equivalent to Ladder monsters.

    3. True enough. Maybe if lag is such an issue, one might be crazy to play HC so often. I personally would go to SC. If it's only minor, then it shouldn't be worth worrying about too much. My opinion, I don't care for yours. It won't change mine and has little relation to a this. The idea is that survivability is key.

    4. That's their own fault. If their not careful and aren't patient or rush when they shouldn't, their chars deserve to die now and then. That includes mine too, and they have, but I've learnt. HC is about being careful, not getting caught in any bad situation and not rushing.

    5. What's that got to do with anything?

    Ok, with your 1. 3. and 4/5. it's really amusing.
    You say you need to build with survival in mind due to lag (3 [true enough,]) but you say many aren't patient (4&5,) and you use telekenesis for speed (1,) a skill that doesn't help survival, but let's you do things quicker, and possibly even be even more lazy, careless and rushy in the longrun. You did not say you were based around ES, so I'm assuming you aren't. (4) and using (1) to improve your speed do not help in survival, but improve your speed and probably the chances of dying through carelessness in the long run.

    The only good point to me with telekenesis is that knockback and for that you only need level 1. I usually TK a monster to death if it's immune, and god that takes forever on pl8... My merc helps out though. :) Unless you're strongly based around ES, it's not worth maxing.

    Anyway, unless you really want to argue this, PM me. I don't care. Your opinions are yours, not mine. I have said mine, and mine work. I build my chars for survivability, utilising patience, tactic and not relying on others to kill immunities. End, period.


    Errr, whoops. Telekenesis is a prereq for teleport. :embarassed: 1 point in telek, but only to knockback immunes and help my merc out and a prereq. Roflcoptor :prop:


    Sorry Papasmurf. I thought someone would help you out on this, but since they haven't:
    That's hard to say. You might find some nice str/dex charms. I've never used max blocking, but apparently it takes away a large portion of your stats from vitality.
    As to strength, I normally aim for 50-60. +str from items usually helps me, and charms are fairly valuable too. But try to keep it as low as you can until you know what you're using. With untwinked, it may take some time.
    Duriel's shell, a nice armour requires 65, but gives +15Str. I've use Duriel's with my guardian. Got some nice resists. Lionheart is also a good armour though.
    Wizardspike needs 75 dex.
    If you need some help, look through some items, find one you may want, and get the strength requirements for that type of armour.
    Good Luck, and hope it goes well. :thumbsup:
     
  15. Socialism

    Socialism IncGamers Member

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    Ok, I really wasn't posting for an argument, was just posting to inform as per the rationale of other would-be HC energy shield / telekinesis advocates (like myself).

    I'm not faulting myself for being impatient; why would I waste my time with things I don't particularly enjoy doing (walking slowly, for example)? Telekinesis does help for survival; the only I can imagine anyone putting points into telekinesis is to beef up their energy shield. Why would you assume that I'm not using an ES build? I mean. That's. Kinda. Stupid. (as I'm sure you agree)

    Point #1 was to address your earlier post where you wrote something about having no TK (which I assumed you had no points in, and therefore no teleport either... but to each his own).

    You're right about me getting careless and whatnot. Point 5 wasn't an argument, just a self-assertion to feed my ego. Meh.

    I'm... very surprised if you've ever TKd a monster to death in hell. But whatever. Merc isn't to help out TK, TK is to help out merc. IMO, there's ES or no ES, whether or not you jam 1 or 20 points into ES, I'd put 20 into TK. That's the point.

    Great! So okay, you've shared your opinion, and I'm continually sharing mine. I'm not trying to cram mine down your throat. This isn't an argumentative piece; it's an explanatory one. "End, period."
     
  16. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    Funny story here actually. My other post I forgot TK was a prereq...
    One of my older sorc's actually didn't spend 2 points in TK/Teleport. For some reason I gave her a staff with teleport charges. :rolleyes: What was I thinking? A sorc with teleport charges on switch...
    Well, I didn't fully tk it to death. Hell Den of Evil unique is cold immune. My only non-cold spell was Telekenesis, and my merc was dying without doing any damage. About 6-7 mana potions later it died. :jig: TK was mainly to knockback though and save my merc from getting hurt, but I still consider that TK'ing him to death. Sorta, well I damaged him a bit. It's close enough. :prop: :)

    Yes, to max TK without using ES strongly is stupid, but you made no indication that yours is an ES build. I wasn't sure so I assumed you were no ES/1TK as opposed to maxES/maxTK.

    [/thread steal]
     
  17. Papasmurf90

    Papasmurf90 IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the stat help Drystan. I guess I'll should for around 70-80 str and then like 100 dex. Once I figure out what shield I get I'll add more for max block. I'm shooting for a Whistans Guard though...
     
  18. Papasmurf90

    Papasmurf90 IncGamers Member

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    Quick question, what's the Andy bug? If I remember correctly, after you kill her you go straight to Warriv and to A2 and from then on she'll drop items like it was the first time you killed her. Is this right? Would you recommend you do it?
     
  19. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    1) 17 cm is a joke. Period. It works for hybrids, but cold sorc is not a hybrid.
    2) If you advocate 17 CM on an orb or blizzard sorc that is meant to meph (at all, not solely) I will pay no attention to anything you say beyond that point other than that you are wrong and clearly don't know a whole lot about how to play a sorc.
     
  20. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    All you have to do is travel to Act 2 in the same game that you kill Andy for quest. Nearly everyone does this unintentionally anyway.
     

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