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Best HCL PVPer

Discussion in 'PvP' started by d00m2k, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. d00m2k

    d00m2k IncGamers Member

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    Best HCL PVPer

    I'm going to make a new Hardcore Ladder PVPer. On the HCL, you basically have to deal with Hammerdins, Light/Fire sorcs, Chargadins, BvCs, BvBs and Windies.

    A lot of BM happens in HCL. Essentially, there are no manners: in a life or death situation, you can use whatever you have. Pride/Infinity mercs, Juvs, lifetap, etc...

    Which is why 1 hit knockouts, or close to 1 hit builds, reign supreme. Sorcs can 1 or 2 hit a lot of people who don't have the proper resists/absorb. Hammerdins hitting 13 - 15K damage can one-shot barbs. While Windies are usually TPPK, a few still PVP fairly well when they reach 5 - 6K nados. Chargadins, with their max block and huge defence rush up one shotting characters with 20 - 25K one hand damage. BvCs whirl to death most casters.

    What character build could take on all these? I initially thought necro, but a necro isn't going to one shot anyone, and they require very good gear to save resists and get +skills. Windies usually can't put up the damage either. I don't want to make a sorc that someone can just change their rings and absorb. And boy do I want to be able to kill Hammerdins...there are SO MANY of them.

    I narrowed it down to BvA or Chargadin. But, I'm not sure BvAs (or WW barbs in general) can kill someone fast enough that they aren't going to drink a juv, or save exit, or teleport away and drink. Maybe necros/sorcs/windies. Not only that, but how can a Barb come close to beating a Hammerdin? Those hammers will do around 2K damage each, which means a couple flying out at rediculous speeds will put an end to almost all chars but big barbs. Can Barbs beat hammerdins? Exile Smiters? Chargadins?

    My second thought was a chargadin. Huge damage, AR, defense. Lock onto somebody, and hold down that mouse button waiting for a desynch or little lag or not enough FCR/FHR and they are gone. But can they beat a good WW Barb? What about an exile lifetap smiter?

    And now another option I'm thinking of it exile smiter. They seem to be able to beat barbs and chargadins, but how could they ever beat a sorc? I assume tele-smite, no idea how well that works.

    Anyways, these are my ideas. I'm sure you guys have better ideas, or maybe tactics to allow BvA to beat Hammerdin, or smiter/chargadin. Any help is appreciated.
     
  2. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

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    As a HCL dueler, I'd suggest a zerker. Well built, they're damn near impossible to 1hit KO. With teleport (enigma, or my personal favorite, a rare tele amulet), you'll be able to 1hit a lot of hammerdins. You probably wont beat a WW barb, but if you build him well enough, and drop a point in WW, you wont be 1hit by them, and will be able to beat the lower end ones.

    Zerk's high, hard to negate damage at 9frames is a great way to rack up some hcl ears.

    -Matt
     
  3. ToThePoint

    ToThePoint IncGamers Member

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    best hcl dueller is one with 16 slots for rejuvs
    after that the guy that can click 'pot pot pot' fastest
    after that the guy that can get back to town fastest
    finally, after that the guy that can kill something

    thats ignoring tppk and chickeners
     
  4. SicHalo

    SicHalo IncGamers Member

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    I think HC is best with 1 hit ko builds, i.e the zerker barb + the charger.

    Something basically build with 1 hit ko abilities CS zons and Foher might work but chances are ppl will stack u out and abs u completely as no-one want to die and almost everything goes in HC.

    Not even hammer is enought cuz vs barb or high life chars it take 3 + hammer for kills as a 15k hammer does 2500 dmg and a barb can hit 6k-8k range depending so that 3-4 15k hammers.

    A barb can beat all those builds, charger prolly the easiest with WW smiter, technique, i.e clipping Whirls etc, hammerdins i seen i HC good zerker can take out hammerdins or with ww, using long whirls etc.

    Using amp wands as well or graveldepain on switch.

    A well built hammerdin is sturdy as well but windys will give most trouble...
     
  5. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

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    A hammerdin will beat the majority of people in a duel game, and probably pick you up some nice ears, however a good barb will destroy it. Basically, a hammerdin is gonna get some kills, but dont expect to beat good barbs. Barbs on the other hand will have a harder time finding duels, but when they do, if built and played right, will kill better duelers. (and are much more expensive)
     
  6. jsyou

    jsyou Banned

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    i dont think a click fest of zerk and rejuvs makes you a good dueler, hc only have 2 kinds of barbs zerk fest or amp + ww. good barbs are almost none existent on hc(duelers to be more specific)
     
  7. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    I'd start with an eBotD GPA WW Barb, Gavel on switch. It's not normally going to be a 1-hit KO build, but the damage you can do per second in one good whirl is pwnarific. At this point in the season it's so ridiculously cheap and easy to make, and if it's not successful enough for you, you'll at least get an idea of what you're up against.

    'Grief' Smiter would also work (unblockable + auto-hit = very good against Hammers).

    CS Zon is a decent option but much more expensive.
     
  8. d00m2k

    d00m2k IncGamers Member

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    Hey PhatTrumpet (I think I've seen youin op xbananax),

    Could you be a bit more specific? For BVA, I think my skills will be
    20ww
    20mastery
    20shout
    20 leap
    1nat res
    1speed
    rest shout if I get that high.

    For stats, I understand just enough str/dex to wear the different combos for different opponents. But what would those combos be vs. the different chars and builds?

    For casters, I could see something like:

    arreats
    nigma
    Ebotd zerk
    Highlords
    Tgods
    Absorb rings (2x dwarf, raven, wisps)
    Goreriders
    Trang's gloves?

    Look good?

    I'm much less experienced vs. melee builds (as my only other PVPer was a BvC), both in tactics and gear. Maybe you could help me out (GPA?)
     
  9. jsyou

    jsyou Banned

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    these stuff you say wont even work vs good duelers but then it might just work on hc



     
  10. jsyou

    jsyou Banned

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    gpa is great pole axe its a bad option for a ww barb



     
  11. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    You obviously speak from experience...



     
  12. jsyou

    jsyou Banned

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    my experience in hc dueling is that there is no duelers only chickeners and juvs drinkers, 99% of the time you will see everyone chicken in duel games or just duelers wanna get their ego up by pking someone else

    i just dont see the point of hc dueling where you spend wealth on a char then goes to see who juv better or can 1 hit better

    this gets worst on high level dueling where everything imaginable will be used against you



     
  13. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

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    Or obvious lack thereof.

    I'd go on to argue this point with you, but you took care of it yourself with the rest of the sentence.



     
  14. jsyou

    jsyou Banned

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    no theory craft, i really duel in hc befor its just a bunch of people getting up top notch gear using 1-2 hit cookie builds, juving here and there to avoid death



     
  15. Sgraffite

    Sgraffite IncGamers Member

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    So to not be a hypocrite you didn't juv, and that's why you no longer play hardcore?
     
  16. jsyou

    jsyou Banned

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    everyone was doing the same thing why woudn't i juv? i just find it pointless thats why i stop playing it,

    i just dont really see the point of hc duels if both players want to see who is better they should do it in a seris of first to 5 or 10, not died once and have to rebuild all over again so he could just duel again



     
  17. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    Well, I'd have to agree. I don't see much point to high-level HC PvP either. But the OP wants advice, so we're trying to give him some.

    I know of two people who absolutely terrorized games using eBotD Ghost Spear WWers. I know of one guy who took out a number of "godly" hammerdins using a CS Zon. There is no "best" build out there, but I have seen at least two (besides Hammerdin) that can work.

    @ OP: I think your damage will be too low if you go the 'Enigma' leap+tele+triwhirl route. I'd probably just use 'Fort' and accept the fact that you'll have to get lucky against Sorcs (or just stay away from them altogether).
     
  18. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

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    edit: nevermind
     
  19. jsyou

    jsyou Banned

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    make a blizz sor with a infinity merc you'll kill anyone 1-2 blizz if you see any stackers dont bother with it go find the next victim
     
  20. d00m2k

    d00m2k IncGamers Member

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    Ha good thing you guys aren't paying attention to the actual thread. I forgot to include BO.

    My skills for BVA would be:
    20ww
    20mastery
    20bo
    20shout
    rest in leap
    1pt res/speed

    If there was a build that would rock hammerdins + other barbs/pallies, I'd go for that. Besides, you can always just absorb sorcs...even with your resistances dented from conviction you won't be knocked out in a hit or two.

    So is there a build that has the advantage to taking out hammerdins/chargadins/smiters/Zerk/WW barbs?

    I'd even settle for something that can KO hammerdins...but I don't know if anything can. I do see barbs doing extra long WW against hammers...does whirlwind somehow avoid the hammers?
     

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