Bearsin help needed

[aznbboi16]

You will probably NOT keep the wolf in fhr or block animation, because blocklock and such has been fixed. Same with CS Zons. And being dodged isn't a good thing either, sorry.

Pheonix = no block or slow max block with very little vit. Did I not mention Fortitude with the 120 max shield? I swear I did. Max block with a decent level of life + the SAME +max damage and 300%ED (a bit less than pheonix) from fortitude are a much better choice than low block, poor block rate pheonix. You do realize +max mods all work the same whether it's in your shield or armor right? Have you dueled before? Ever?

Dueling in a private league? This build would be trashed in any decent non pub environment. Pub is the only place where this could get a kill and even that would be hard.

Tell you what, you go make a pvp bearsin and let us know how it goes. I'll stick to pvm with mine.

 

[Zangeif]

Wow what a condescending tone.

And coming from a pvm player lol.

Fortitude could very well be the better choice and I have never used a ladder runeword so I'm not familiar with them. You're right I missed the mention of Fortitude with the JMoD, you must have missed my mention of fortitude as an option in earlier posts as well. Phoenix does kill oak sage, and gives some max res though, granted u block 1 frame slower and lose some life.

Oh well, have fun pvming, good luck finding some shakos.

 

[aznbboi16]

Wow what a condescending tone.

And coming from a pvm player lol.

Fortitude could very well be the better choice and I have never used a ladder runeword so I'm not familiar with them. You're right I missed the mention of Fortitude with the JMoD, you must have missed my mention of fortitude as an option in earlier posts as well. Phoenix does kill oak sage, and gives some max res though, granted u block 1 frame slower and lose some life.

Oh well, have fun pvming, good luck finding some shakos.

Wow, assume more. I'm just really tired of your theorycrafting. I don't believe this build will work for pvp for something so expensive, so I won't do that. Like I've already mentioned too, using 120 max in charms will lead to a poor venom and would be a sacrifice as well. It's either very very crappy physical and poison similar to a kicker/wwsin, or crappy physical and crappy poison. I'm also not willing to lay down all the hard work and trading for something that won't work well, just because it's unique. How can I get it across to you that I will NOT be pvping with this bear (mentioned it in my first post)?

I've long been a pvper of all sorts. I lld/mld/hld, pub and private duel in 3 leagues (one of which is dead). I've had experience with just about every character you can imagine, from warcry barbs to zealots. I know what works and I know what doesn't. Not sure if I mentioned in the first post, but the reason I am making this char is because I'm tired of dueling and I just want to try this bearsin since I have the claw. If you're uswest nl, I'd be glad to show you some of my pvpers, just pm me your account and I'll pm you mine.

Even if you had never used a ladder runeword, you should know from the stats that Pheonix has no +%block. You knew that it had +%ED so...I assumed you knew it had crap block. I did see your fortitude suggestion, but I chose not to comment on it.

If you so badly want to see a bearsin pvper, by all means go make one.

I own several shakos, thanks. Good luck with your pvp bearsin. And if you ever make one, I'd be glad to crush it too. :thumbsup:

 

[Zangeif]

Well jewlers runics of quickness could take a year to get so I can't make it.

I'm well aware you will lose to casters, ww barbs, smiters, etc, but who cares. In case you haven't noticed being godly isnt about beating the field in pubbies or even in private games. Why do you think a 3os fools myth of quickness is godlier than a grief. No, it's not because it's 1 frame faster (grief is much better) it's because it's rare and can't spawn. Why do you think a 90life jewlers dusk is worth so much more than a 100life archon dusk?

Anyway go ahead and use a bvc for your duels, and own everyone. Seems like beating the field is all you care about, and we all know what wins consistently. Then you can 3xber that claw up and go own some hell bovines.

What realm are u on btw?

 

[aznbboi16]

Well jewlers runics of quickness could take a year to get so I can't make it.

I'm well aware you will lose to casters, ww barbs, smiters, etc, but who cares. In case you haven't noticed being godly isnt about beating the field in pubbies or even in private games. Why do you think a 3os fools myth of quickness is godlier than a grief. No, it's not because it's 1 frame faster (grief is much better) it's because it's rare and can't spawn. Why do you think a 90life jewlers dusk is worth so much more than a 100life archon dusk?

Anyway go ahead and use a bvc for your duels, and own everyone. Seems like beating the field is all you care about, and we all know what wins consistently. Then you can 3xber that claw up and go own some hell bovines.

What realm are u on btw?

I don't even know what you're talking about anymore...

WW barbs and smiters are both melee btw. I already gave a reason for not making this a pvp char. Not because it isn't going to own everything in sight, but because it will be a huge hassle and cost an arm and a leg for something that will probably lose to just about everything out there. Also because I'm tired of pvp and I would like to just try something weird.

I've had some pretty 2nd rate characters that I thought were fun, even if they couldn't mop up pubs. WC barb, fury/rabies wolf, fc bear and a kicker for example. They certainly aren't ones to clean out a pub.

Just because an unshoppable 90 life jeweler's dusk shroud is worth more than a 100 life jeweler's archon, doesn't mean it's "godlier." It means it's rarer and therefore worth more. Not better. Same goes for a 3os fool's mythical of quickness. Worth more, not godlier. You're just one of those people who think crazy things are uber gosu because they're uncommon (even if they suck).

Seems like beating the field isn't what I care about if I'm taking my time to make a pvmer to "own some hell bovines". Contradict more.

Seriously, learn to read. I already said, and I quote: "If you're uswest nl, I'd be glad to show you some of my pvpers, just pm me your account and I'll pm you mine."

 

[Zangeif]

WW barbs and smiters are both melee btw

Lol don't start that argument. Lets just say that if they are melee, they are in a completely different league than any other melee and will never lose to any other melee.

Anyway, please don't go bragging about how I'm a pub and then complain because you can't afford 30 maxers and a JMoD. I guess we will never know how this build would do in pvp, until someone else finds a jewlers runic of quickness. What a shame.

 

[aznbboi16]

Lol don't start that argument. Lets just say that if they are melee, they are in a completely different league than any other melee and will never lose to any other melee.

Anyway, please don't go bragging about how I'm a pub and then complain because you can't afford 30 maxers and a JMoD. I guess we will never know how this build would do in pvp, until someone else finds a jewlers runic of quickness. What a shame.

Whether or not ww barbs and smiters own melee doesn't mean they aren't also melee. They are in a different league. Zealots, melee druids and the like are inferior (gasp), live with it. Why do you think they only duel each other? Melee is hand to hand combat. I don't see ww barbs or smiters shooting anything, do you? I love how people complain "omg ww and smite aren't melee because they own me!"

And when did I ever go bragging about how you're a pub? Getting a little defensive there eh? Running out of witty comments? And who says I can't afford 30 maxers and a JMoD? I said it is a hassle (more than I am willing to go through), since they are uncommon. Somebody needs better reading comprehension skills...

If you're such a cool non pub rich guy, why don't you go buy a jeweler's runic of quickness with your endless wealth?

 

[Zangeif]

Have you dueled before? Ever?

Dueling in a private league? This build would be trashed in any decent non pub environment. Pub is the only place where this could get a kill and even that would be hard.

Yes, you imply I am a pub dueler/noob or whatever else you want to call it.

I really don't care about what the dictionary definitaion of melee is. I base my decision on gameplay balance, as it is obviously more important than what Webster's has to say. If you want to join melee only games and pwn with a Grief/SS barb, feel free, that just isn't fun for me. All the good duelers stick to dueling their own classes in palapk/druidpk/casterpk so it doesn't really matter whether pubbies argue over the definition of melee.

Anyway, affording a jewlers runic of quickness is not the issue. If one turned up on East, I would buy it and try this build. It's hard to buy something that doesn't exist though.

 

[aznbboi16]

Yes, you imply I am a pub dueler/noob or whatever else you want to call it.

I really don't care about what the dictionary definitaion of melee is. I base my decision on gameplay balance, as it is obviously more important than what Webster's has to say. If you want to join melee only games and pwn with a Grief/SS barb, feel free, that just isn't fun for me. All the good duelers stick to dueling their own classes in palapk/druidpk/casterpk so it doesn't really matter whether pubbies argue over the definition of melee.

Anyway, affording a jewlers runic of quickness is not the issue. If one turned up on East, I would buy it and try this build. It's hard to buy something that doesn't exist though.

I fail to see how my comments imply you are a pub (which is what you accused me of). I was only stating that in a private duel situation, people are rich/skilled and will generally destroy weird builds. "Noob" is a different story.

Basing melee/caster class on balance is just hilarious and stupid. Casters > smiters. What are smiters? Certainly not casters. Not melee either right? Simple fact is that melee has a set definition. Saying something is not melee when it really is is stupid. Saying it's superior to other melee and unfair would be true. I fail to see how dueling only your own class makes you "good", but whatever floats your boat.

 

[ilkori]

Re: FHR lock
It's called knockback. That animation is longer than a FHR animation from everything I have seen. Also, if you precast a shadow (which may or may not be allowed in specific rules), there is a chance that they will cast MB for you once. That would give a few seconds of fhrlock since any damage will trigger it (welcome to the Assassin class).


aznbboi16, you were going to make a bowie for a level 41 tourney some time ago, right? Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else, but I your name sounds familiar.


And, really, you two are going way overboard here. Since nobody here in this discussion has even built one, we're making idiots of ourselves. Clan_Iraq has built one, but hasn't shown himself in this thread yet. If you manage to find the thread I started as speculation, you can find his comments there.

 

[aznbboi16]

Re: FHR lock
It's called knockback. That animation is longer than a FHR animation from everything I have seen. Also, if you precast a shadow (which may or may not be allowed in specific rules), there is a chance that they will cast MB for you once. That would give a few seconds of fhrlock since any damage will trigger it (welcome to the Assassin class).


aznbboi16, you were going to make a bowie for a level 41 tourney some time ago, right? Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else, but I your name sounds familiar.


And, really, you two are going way overboard here. Since nobody here in this discussion has even built one, we're making idiots of ourselves. Clan_Iraq has built one, but hasn't shown himself in this thread yet. If you manage to find the thread I started as speculation, you can find his comments there.

KB causes a double hit recovery animation, but it is still unreliable as a source of stun and also not very desirable on a melee character because by the time you're back in range, they could very well be out of stun. Also the chances are something like 25%-50% for a KB hit.

Yes, I was going to make a 41 bowazon. I do remember you as well, I think you had a kicker. Never actually made that zon, but I did make a 41 necro whom I'm quite fond of. It's a shame Clan-Honor is dead and so many people have quit.

Anyways, I specifically stated that this would be for pvm in the first post. At first I was only discussing the disadvantages of a bearsin in pvp, but things got pushy. This is theorycrafting from both sides, yes, but sins tend to get their monster stun from mind blast and traps. A bearsin cannot use either and a shadow will be quickly killed (and unable to be recast). Another fact is that a bearsin will have poor physical damage which will be unreliable to stun. Either you make a pretty big sacrifice to use +max charms/jewels and lose your poison and have mediocre damage or focus on strong poison.

If I have some time later, I'll go play around with the skill calc and make some damage calculations with a poison focused bear and a physical damage focused bear. I will post results here. Just need to know one thing, what is the str/dex dmg modifier for claws? .75 str and .75 dex correct?

I wouldn't trust that Clan_Iraq guy anyways.

 

[ilkori]

Unless a player specifically stacks poison resistance, it is rediculously powerful when played correctly. Speederlander has done the numbers on this more than anyone else in this forum, and has a good description in his guide. Don't forget both the double bonus from Poison Mastery and the -100% PLR Hell penalty in your calculations.

The other source of damage on Assassins is typically Open Wounds. It'll be hard putting it into this build, but getting it triggered does incredible things to opponent life. The only problem is finding a good source. Shadow Dancers make incredible boots, but Gores have a small percent, and blood belts have another small percent. Draculs have an "ok" percent, but Trang's gloves are desireable for the poison bonus.

I still think that Knockback is the best way to work with this. Unlike Zealots, Fury Druids, or WWers, the Bearsin would be using an attack they can adjust after every single attack. It would almost be like smite but with 2x-3x the speed, 1/4 the knockback chance, and a lower hit chance (and blockable). Numbers-wise it's weaker than Smite, but I would be very curious how it would do against other builds.


Yep, I had a 41 kicker. It's expired now, but I'm planning on rebuilding some time. There ended up being three of us who showed for the tourney - me and two WW barbs. We were fairly evenly matched, with one of the barbs being a bit stronger, and the other a bit weaker. It is very sad that CH is dead. I wish I'd found it earlier.

 

[aznbboi16]

Unless a player specifically stacks poison resistance, it is rediculously powerful when played correctly. Speederlander has done the numbers on this more than anyone else in this forum, and has a good description in his guide. Don't forget both the double bonus from Poison Mastery and the -100% PLR Hell penalty in your calculations.

The other source of damage on Assassins is typically Open Wounds. It'll be hard putting it into this build, but getting it triggered does incredible things to opponent life. The only problem is finding a good source. Shadow Dancers make incredible boots, but Gores have a small percent, and blood belts have another small percent. Draculs have an "ok" percent, but Trang's gloves are desireable for the poison bonus.

I still think that Knockback is the best way to work with this. Unlike Zealots, Fury Druids, or WWers, the Bearsin would be using an attack they can adjust after every single attack. It would almost be like smite but with 2x-3x the speed, 1/4 the knockback chance, and a lower hit chance (and blockable). Numbers-wise it's weaker than Smite, but I would be very curious how it would do against other builds.


Yep, I had a 41 kicker. It's expired now, but I'm planning on rebuilding some time. There ended up being three of us who showed for the tourney - me and two WW barbs. We were fairly evenly matched, with one of the barbs being a bit stronger, and the other a bit weaker. It is very sad that CH is dead. I wish I'd found it earlier.

Knockback could work to the advantage or disadvantage of this build, it's all speculation. Lots of melee are uninterruptible though. Zealots, smiters, wwbarbs to name a few. The use of a giant skull also gives up a lot of great mods from a shako as well, although the 2 sockets can make that up somewhat. Lag will also probably mess things up. Smite is already affected by slight lag and a 2 frame attack is sure to whiff air a couple times before actually moving towards your target again.

Not sure who the 3rd guy was, but one of those wwbarbs was *dullshinyman. Not sure if he was the stronger, but he was the eth hone sundan barb. He quit a while back and left me his accounts. If there's anything you need for your kicker I could look around whatever mules I have that aren't expired.

 

[ilkori]

Heh, I think I've had enough speculation for now, lol.

dullshinyman was slightly weaker - no shield meant both of us could tag him pretty well. I think his equipment was a lower level also (38 was it?). The other dueler was BadLikeMe.

If I get set up on a computer with a decent connection, I may look you up about that equipment offer.