Battle of the Melee sorcs

[Amortization]

Battle of the Melee sorcs

I would like to start a discussion about melee sorcs. There are a few variants I am interested in. Which build do you think is best for pvp and pvm. I am primarily interested in pvp but I will also take advice about pvm.

I have mostly been thinking of option 4 because it allows for an attack that adds damage (vengeance) and still allows for using better block shield. Option 5 is also interesting but it would do less damage per hit than with vengence.

How does the damage of vengeance with masteries compare to the holy shock and holy fire aura damages?

1. Passion + dual dream - fast Zeal attack. flexibility with armor choice but low block shield and lower damage per hit than dual auras or vengence

2. Hoj and dragon + dual dream - massive dual element damage but slow attack, low block shield, and very specific gear requirements

3. Kingslayer + dual dream - vengence attack for tri element damage and holy shock. flexibility with armor choice, but low block shield and slow attack

4. Kingslayer + other items - vengence attack for tri element damage. allow for using higher block shield and better armor and helm but slow attack speed and lower damage than using dream

5. Passion + other items - fast zeal attack. allow for using higher block shield and better armor and helm but lower damage per hit than using dream or kingslayer

6. Hoj and dragon + other items - added fire damage. able to use diferent shield and helm but slow attack and less damage than using dream.


Also, how exactly does block work with energy shield. I seem to be reading different things. Can you block while using es? In pvp is energy shield and telekinesis recommended or just maxing vitality?

One last question, Vengence uses base weapon physical damage to determine elemental damage, right? Would adding a phoenix shield help the base damage that vengence uses to calculate the elemental damage?

 

[lumpor]

Re: Battle of the Melee sorcs

god, I'm tired, but I'll answer your most important questions:

Vengeance elemental damage gets boosted by this:

Enhanced damage % on the weapon
+ min/max damage that's not on the weapon

Other types of damage (like grief or fortitude armor) don't work. Wartravs and bloodfists, together with an etheral botd zerker, might work well. Oh right, zerkers suck for sorcs, cause they're slow

Phase blades don't do high enough damage to be a good base for vengeance

Sorcs get a speed boost with polearms and two-handed axes, and those weapons do more damage

Basically, a silver edged axe is best for vengeance. Can get 9 fpa and does lots more damage

You can read the kingslayer sorc thread i started a while ago. I would link if I wasn't so tired

Passion + dreams is the most cookiecutter choice, or you could also be a bearsorc for even faster attack but no teleport

Sorry can't write more

 

[sirpoopsalot]

Re: Battle of the Melee sorcs

Block works just fine with ES... first your character checks to see if the attack hits successfully, then your blocking is checked, and if the attack does hit & isn't blocked, ES will work like normal. Otherwise, the attack never made it to the point of causing damage, so there's nothing for ES to do.

In regards to Vengeance, Asmo has a guide in the Paladin forum that gives details about what does and does not boost the damage... I'll edit that in momentarily, then return to some of your other points...


Edit1:
Full Avenger Guide: http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=517192

This means, that only certain things that add to your physical damage, will also count towards Vengeance elemental damage. These are;

- Enhanced or min/max damage from socketing in the weapon.
- Min/max damage from socketing in off weapon equipment.
- Min/max damage from items or charms.
- Weapon and item added damage that reads "adds xx damage" such as Butchers pupil, War traveller boots and Blood Fist gloves.

What doesn't count towards Vengeance elemental damage;

- Auras enhanced damage such as Might or Fanatism.
- Weapon added damage that reads "damage + xx" such as Grief rune word and The Redeemer. This has been tested in game to not work.
- Factors such as Deadly Strike, Open Wounds or Crushing Blow.
- Strength. Vengeance works from weapon damage only.
- Off weapon enhanced damage such as socketed jewels or Lion Heart, Fortitude or Duress rune words.

These types of effects work with the physical part of your Vengeance damage, but not the elemental parts.

Edit2:
Actually, I can't judge how Vengeance compares to the high-end runewords, since I don't have those runes.

But I did make a Vengeance sorc, and found two things that you might want to consider:


1. I used an IronWolf (Cold) for a merc, and he was an awesome companion. He won't kill anything on his own (in Hell), but Vengeance will allow you to do that indescriminately with your sorc. What he will do is freeze a lot of enemies solid, making things very safe.

2. I went with a two-handed weapon for my Kingslayer (Silver-Edged Axe). With the frozen enemies from the merc and the higher base-damage from the two-handed weapon, she was a real powerhouse while staying relatively safe. In single player, 1-hit kills against non-FI's were the norm (even some champion-types were 1-hit KO's), and most FI's were killed in 2-3 hits... and as a bonus, sorcs attack faster with most two-handed weapons compared to their one-handed counterparts.

<--- combined, these made for a very interesting, fun, and unconventional sorc. I definitely enjoyed her more than my Passion/ES/max-block melee sorc.


If you're up for some reading, I do a contrast & compare of the 3 Enchantresses I have tried (2 melee, 1 ranged) here.

 

[Amortization]

Re: Battle of the Melee sorcs

Thanks guys for your input. I'm gonna do some testing with the different setups. If anyone else has any input it is appreciated also.

 

[rickster]

Re: Battle of the Melee sorcs

I currently have build #1 and it's pretty solid for pvm (i must note merc has infinity). I didn't care about block since I went max TK/ES. I've had very few deaths, but lots of close calls due to mana burn and MSLE monsters. The armor I use is treachery which helps me hit the last zeal breakpoint and fade is nice when my ES breaks due to manaburn, i get max resists when it procs. I've done a little bit of pvp with this build. I've gone about 50/50 with vs my friend's windy and bone necro. I get wrecked by hammerdins but i figure that's mostly due to my inexperience dueling. I keep managing to tele on top of them. So I can't really give any real informed opinion on upper echelon dueling.

I might also try a dual dream build with guardian angel so it's easier to get max block.

I soon plan to obtain the items in build # 2. I've read that it isn't that great for pvp though since your attack speed is terrible and the aura's get sorbed.

But yeah, dual dream with passion is pretty solid for pvm.