Barbarian WW overpowered in d2c?

fredsta54

Diabloii.Net Member
Barbarian WW overpowered in d2c?

Ever since i moved from expansion to classic (a while ago) ive noticed that the ww skill seems so overpowered. for instance.

My lvl 82 energy shield sorc (max es, max telek, 20 orb, 20 cm) had 1.4k mana about 80% absorb and 800 life. had 60 block w/ a 30/20 priz shield and 60 fhr.
In most pubby games noob barbs w/ low marts// bonesnaps/ steeldriver/ and whatnot could kill her in 1 full ww most of the time(when they cuaght me cuz i lagged). And when i was hit w/ conc it would go down ~40 life. I think that the ww breakpoints on classic are bugged so that any wepon w/ ww is as fast as the next.

a 600 damage ww w/ 5k ar shouldnt own her that easy, especially since most of the barbs wrere lvl 50-60.

Fred
 

-Tempus-

Diabloii.Net Member
fredsta54 said:
Ever since i moved from expansion to classic (a while ago) ive noticed that the ww skill seems so overpowered. for instance.

My lvl 82 energy shield sorc (max es, max telek, 20 orb, 20 cm) had 1.4k mana about 80% absorb and 800 life. had 60 block w/ a 30/20 priz shield and 60 fhr.
In most pubby games noob barbs w/ low marts// bonesnaps/ steeldriver/ and whatnot could kill her in 1 full ww most of the time(when they cuaght me cuz i lagged). And when i was hit w/ conc it would go down ~40 life. I think that the ww breakpoints on classic are bugged so that any wepon w/ ww is as fast as the next.

a 600 damage ww w/ 5k ar shouldnt own her that easy, especially since most of the barbs wrere lvl 50-60.

Fred
you are a sorc, dont get hit...

20orb/mastery isnt very strong and most barbs can get high resist to cold so
your orbs would do very little dmg. i have a post in the locked "all things classic" thread where i used my sorc with 28icebolt/orb/mastery vs my barb/pal with different setups. while the orb did a ton of dmg when they had low resist to cold they took next to no dmg when i had +400% resist to cold on.

the thing with ww in d2c is that it doesnt have any breakpoints. all weapons attack at the same speed

600 dmg ww is very low even for a 1hd weapon. a barb with high str or a good weapon can hit 2k dmg (without auras/enchant) open wounds/crushing blow is going to also add a ton of dmg as will some poison dmg.

a very good barb can do ~2000 ww dmg
a very good hammerdin can do 15,000 bh dmg
a very good enchant sorc and add 1800 fire dmg to an attack (or +5k with hallcast)
an amz with max LF...
a necro with max bone skills...
a sorc with max blizzard, metero, lightning...

no a ww barb isnt overpower. the need items to do anything (like most melee builds)

-Tempus-
 

fredsta54

Diabloii.Net Member
This isnt about my orb not hurting or hurting other characters. This is about most ww barbs killing other characters in 1 ww, even if their weapon is not very good. I saw a lvl 9x sorc w/ amazing godly gear all socketed and perfect stuff.... die to a lvl 6x barb in 1 ww who had crappy items like low ed steeldriver, manald heal cathans, sigons etc. and he said he put all his points into dex cuz his frend told him 2 even tho he was using a maul . basically he was a n00b.

and as to my sorc not getting hit, if she lags, theirs nothing i can do
 

-Tempus-

Diabloii.Net Member
one ww could hit 6 times, those hits can add up fast

even a barb made badly can still have max BO and a lot of life. the barb also gets more life/point in vit then other chars. how much life did the sorc have? did they have ES and how much mana did they have. the barb also has the NR skill.

many barbs that fight amz, sorc will go with a lot of r/w so they can close the gap between them and the other char. the slow they are the more dmg they could be hit by. if the barb is smart they will have cant be frozen on so they wont slow down when running after that other char.

now if you were to talk about LOD PvP and most chars using teleport you may find thats just one of the many reasons why people come back to D2C for pvp or pvm.

-Tempus-
 

fredsta54

Diabloii.Net Member
my sorc had 800 life 1.4k mana w/ 80% energy shield. and, again, this isnt about my*deleted* orb. its about ww hurting 2 much. 60 block w/ 30 fbr. 60 fhr.





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~Aragorn
 

Necrolestes

Diabloii.Net Member
Winds of destiny

WW hits so fast and so often that even a 75% block wouldn't be enough to prevent all damage. Sorcies need to get out of the way when a WW barb starts doing his thing (you can set up a Blaze, Meteor, Hydra, Blizzard, or Thunderstorm so that as he's moving towards you, he takes some damage; if he gets too close, teleport away). The WW isn't overpowered...you just need to adopt a new strategy to deal with it (WW CAN and has been defeated before...I remember tricking one into attacking me next to about ten Venom Lord corpses - I CEd him into oblivion).
 

fredsta54

Diabloii.Net Member
If you have a mass of corpses bunched together in a p8 duel game, how does CE do in pvp if it hits em?

EDIT: if their amped
 

TheCerberus

Diabloii.Net Member
I honestly think WW is bugged, not in terms of speed, because it's been like that for a long time, but in regards to blocking.

I made a Defiant one time, and with Shout he could get 12k defense. 12k defense and 75% blocking. I'd walk, because running lowers block, to block as much as possible. Yet Whirlwind barbs still got a lot of hits in. It took them a lot longer than other characters, but what dif is 5 passes to 1 or 2 on other characters? Nothing. I should have block 75%, yet it seemed to have 40-50% hitting me.
 

-Tempus-

Diabloii.Net Member
TheCerberus said:
I honestly think WW is bugged, not in terms of speed, because it's been like that for a long time, but in regards to blocking.

I made a Defiant one time, and with Shout he could get 12k defense. 12k defense and 75% blocking. I'd walk, because running lowers block, to block as much as possible. Yet Whirlwind barbs still got a lot of hits in. It took them a lot longer than other characters, but what dif is 5 passes to 1 or 2 on other characters? Nothing. I should have block 75%, yet it seemed to have 40-50% hitting me.
the the person you fight is higher lev then you they have an easy time hitting you. 12k def is nice but how much AR did the other person have? the # of hits also depends on the range of the weapon used and how long they are in range of you.

-Tempus-
 

Fearlessone

Diabloii.Net Member
fredsta54 said:
If you have a mass of corpses bunched together in a p8 duel game, how does CE do in pvp if it hits em if their amped?
Depends on the level of CE (range), lag issues, game difficulty, whether u are in blood moor and the corpses are carvers, etc... I would guess that the 1/3 damage in pvp situations applies to CE. My necro frequently kills non-barbs this way, using lower resist (for pnova skill). But amp would be better. Why? cuz CE is half physical damage and half fire damage. Fire is probably 75% resisted on a good barb, who also prob has max bo. Some players may be wearing items that make their fireres over 75%, so with a 50% lowres curse, it may lower their 90% res to 40%. These barbs prob have a good level of IncrSpeed, so lag issues come into play. A very high lvl of CE would help to increase the prob that they are going to be within range and get hit. I havent tried decrep, which amps somewhat less and slows, that might work better.

If u are playing in an 8 person normal game and all are high chars, forget it if u got 20 carver corpses in the blood moor. Try for the zombies in a hell game.
 

BigBearCat

Diabloii.Net Member
-Tempus- said:
the the person you fight is higher lev then you they have an easy time hitting you. 12k def is nice but how much AR did the other person have? the # of hits also depends on the range of the weapon used and how long they are in range of you.

-Tempus-

The block rate has nothing to do with the char lvls. My guess is that
the object doesn't have fast enough block speed. When he/she
successfully do the 1st block and in the block animation, the block
doesn't work anymore until the animation is over.
 

-Tempus-

Diabloii.Net Member
BigBearCat said:
The block rate has nothing to do with the char lvls. My guess is that
the object doesn't have fast enough block speed. When he/she
successfully do the 1st block and in the block animation, the block
doesn't work anymore until the animation is over.
block rate no, but the chance to hit depends on your lev, the lev of what you attack, your AR, its def.

deflection mod and fhr are both very nice to have on all chars pvp or pvm

-tempus-
 

TheCerberus

Diabloii.Net Member
-Tempus- said:
the the person you fight is higher lev then you they have an easy time hitting you. 12k def is nice but how much AR did the other person have? the # of hits also depends on the range of the weapon used and how long they are in range of you.

-Tempus-
Those points are neglible at most.
a) We were the same level.
b) Angelics can get a barb up to 11k, even at 12k that's only 50% chance to hit. Not to mention that at 75% block, at most I should have 1 in 4 hitting me, even if he had a 100% chance to hit. .5 * ..25 = 1 out of every 8 hitting me.
c) It was a hammer, so least amount of hits because he wasn't slowed at all.

And Faster Block Rate wouldn't have done anything, I was using Holy Shield (2 frame FBR) and to get 1 frame you need like 200% FBR.
 
yup

ive recently just restarted d2, and ive made a orb sorc. I have dueled several barbs and noticed that ww was alot more powerfull then before several. 1 Mistake and boom Im dead. It may be possible that i dont have the proper equipment or that i havent gotten my stats right, but my point is that sometime back then i could take several hits from a average barb but now it seems much different. Just a thought.
 

Gorny

Banned
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Gorny

Banned
JoeDamned said:
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Murrogh said:
Many chars can beat baba's. bone necros for 1.
well...thats really pushing it. The necro can lower his resists. but a good barb as alot of health...too much really... From most bone necros Ive seen now and 3 years back, they just sucked and couldnt beat any1. Now that WW is overpowered a necro pretty much dies in one ww. And the necro cant tele.....

Necros could try with that slow down curse thing...what ever u guys call it good speeder barbs can bypass that.

Now Iron Maiden....nope doesnt work cuz by the time it hits ur butt you wont be alive.

Now if its a newb barb thats a different story.... just go ahead and spam your spells.... :D

Good sorcs can come pretty damn close, but nowdays babas just max out the res. :mad:
 
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