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barbarian find item skills

Discussion in 'Classic' started by KoalaBearThirtyThree, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. KoalaBearThirtyThree

    KoalaBearThirtyThree IncGamers Member

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    barbarian find item skills

    Can someone explain how the barbarian find item skill works?

    I mainly want to know if the skill level has an impact on the results? Obviously the magic find % drops off past slvl 10 (or even earlier) so I'm trying to figure out if there is an advantage of taking it up to slvl 20.

    Thanks!
     
  2. danbus

    danbus IncGamers Member

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    I don't know the EXACT figures, but if I remember there are lower percentages at higher lvls. I feel anything over 65% is nice to have. But maxxing it is overkill. IMO its better to have those skill points investing in something that will help kill faster.
     
  3. Locke07

    Locke07 IncGamers Member

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    The result quality no... that is based on what the monster you killed chances are to drop said item and the ammount of MF you have to roll the right properties. The percerntage that the monster will drop something is determined on your Find Item Skill.



     
  4. goomba

    goomba IncGamers Member

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    some have taken another route altogether, instead of killing, putting a few nat rez, and/or frw in order to keep up with, and tank with the dins doing killing in the cs runs.

    that being said, I have a baba on NL with a very high lvl item find, and a baba on ladder that hits roughly 50% item whilst wearing a one bo stick, and angellics.

    combined, I have 200 mf this route, or 300 if I put a gull in the other hand

    I can double gull, but invariabley it seems that doing so more often results in a failed 'urk'

    *shrug* the ladder baba, is still some 3 char levels lower than the NL baba, and has so far ended up with better urks, but I seem to believe that the drops on ladder are overall better as well, but that may be perception issue rather than an empircal fact.



     
  5. WarlockCC

    WarlockCC Diablo Classic Moderator

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    I started a Ladder char a while back, while walking trough the Blood More and killing things to get my first few levels, I found 3 rare rings, naturally they where quite useless, but amusing for my new char, since I didn't have anything else to wear at that low level. But I personally have never, in one game found 3 rare rings in the blood more when just starting out(not wearing any MF gear).
    So I agree with you that Ladder probably yields better drops.

    Personally, I advise maxing Item Find so more corpses yield results. That 1% you get for the final skillpoints might not seem like much, but that's one more corpse that gives you free items out of every 100. And you should be popping lots of them, not just seal bosses, but also venture into Flayer Dungeon and pop all of the corpses there.
    I maxed my ItemFind first, then my Mastery and lastly my WW(WW came even after a couple of points in Nat res and frw)
    Offcourse I did get 1 point in mastery and WW inmediately at level 30.
    My GF/MF barb was re-made because at level 10 my barb's corpse popping skills just was not enough. So I remade and maxed the itemfind, best thing I ever did with that barb. If you're going to make a barb dedicated to popping, why not max the skill ? You max a WW barb's WW skill, don't yah ? And when you got level 10 hammer on your hammerdin you don't say to yourself "This also kills them, so I'll just leave it at level 10"
     
  6. KoalaBearThirtyThree

    KoalaBearThirtyThree IncGamers Member

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    Can anyone confirm that the Find Item slvl (skill level) has no impact on the game other than the extra magic find %? I might be mixing up something or this could just be something my mind made up but I vaguely remember reading or hearing something to the effect that the slvl determines the NUMBER of item drops (as opposed to the item quality--item quality depends on mf%). If I remember correctly, the number of drops (irrespective of quality) is dependent on the number of players in the game (right?). A 4 player game will result in more drops than a 1 player game. Do I have that right? So does Find Item slvl dictate the number of item drops? In other words, even if you were in a 1 player game, a high slvl will result in more drops. Am I mixing this up with something else? *confused* ?:|


    If I may play Devil's Advocate, I guess the counter-argument to your max-skills argument is that since the barb has so many passive skills, it may be better to put points somewhere else IF that yields easier/faster kills. For example, one can also put more points into nat res or BO. Since people like me usually stop playing after clvl 80, those skill points start to count.

    Having said that, I agree with you that maxing it is probably the best if this is going to be a magic find barb. My philosophy is always to max my primary skill so if I'm going for magic find, I would be tempted to max it.



    Anyway, I'm not sure what to do with my barb. Felt like starting a barb (this will be my first post-expansion barb). Wasn't planning on making him a magic find barb but I was curious if the find item skill has changed over time. I was initially going to go with the old school WW+Leap Attack barb (I know LA isn't as good anymore but I find it fun) but maybe I should go for magic find instead. I'm not really into item finding but I have never used Find Item before so it's something different. Here is my plan right now...

    Polearm WW MF barb

    SKILLS
    20 WW
    20 Weapon mastery (polearm)
    15+ Find Item
    3 nat res (depends on my res needs)
    4 Battle Orders

    STATS
    str: 140 (grim scythe req)
    dex: 140 (grim scythe req)
    vit: rest
    energy: base

    WEAPON
    rare grim scythe (hope one of hte imbues turns out ok)

    EQUIP
    (target: magic find & life leech)
    rare items with mf, leech, res
    may wear angelic amulet+one ring but we'll see

    I realize polearm sucks (I never knew how bad they were until I recently checked Steeldriver vs grim scythe and, unless you have a very good scythe, steeldriver is at the same speed and is guaranteed to have high damage (versus random odds with imbues or drops on the grim scythe)). But I'm going with polearms just to be different. Every barb out there uses a mace so that's out. It was down to lance vs grim scythe and I went with scythe (ignoring goldy weapons, both are pretty comparable).

    Ideally, as WarlockCC suggests, I should max Find Item first (you don't deserve to be a find item barb if you don't have 20 points in it ;) ). I would liek to do that but I'm not sure I will do enough damage without max WW and mastery. THe problem is that I'm planning to use a grim scythe (worse than martel de fer or steeldriver) and it will have lower damage. I can't afford expensive stuff so we can assume it is goign to be an imbue of average quality (I'm hoping for IAS and/or 100% enchaned damage).
     
  7. RTB

    RTB IncGamers Member

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    And I have to disagree. The only thing that's different in drops between L and NL is that certain uniques in LoD only drop in ladder games. Thus, in Classic, it doesn't matter at all.

    There's no such thing. Only curiousity with Find Item is that it sets the no-drop chance to 0, so if any horkable monster can drop more than one item, it is guaranteed to do so. The council is a perfect example, each minion can drop multiple items, and thus will drop their maximum amount of items if succesfully horked.



     
  8. WarlockCC

    WarlockCC Diablo Classic Moderator

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    Style ! Cudos on that. Lance has been done aswell, so indeed grim scythe is the only way to go if you want to reap your rewards in style. If I didn't have a nice 180 dura mart I would do the same.

    Steel Driver
    Great Maul
    Bezerk attack
    IAS Frames per Attack
    0 % 23
    4 % 22
    8 % 21
    13 % 20
    19 % 19
    24 % 18
    34 % 17 <== Steel Driver has 40ias
    46 % 16
    58 % 15
    78 % 14
    105 % 13
    152 % 12
    232 % 11
    434 % 10

    Grim Scythe
    Bezerk Attack
    IAS Frames per Attack
    0 % 17
    4 % 16
    10 % 15
    20 % 14
    34 % 13
    54 % 12
    83 % 11
    138 % 10

    Indeed a grim scythe would be comparable speedwise. Unless you are using sigons gloves + other (which is not unlikely on a MF barb), then the scythe would be at 14 frames and the driver at 15.

    But I see your point about a default, no ias scythe speedwise comparing to the steel. The style though, can't beat that scythe look. And a scythe can have manaleech, lifeleech, oodles of other usefull mods.

    I have quite a few grim scythes on Euro. If you want. Like the dealer says, first one's free. :)
    You can also come level with my execbarb. I should flayer more with him, he needs levels. (not a popper)

    At level 80 you will(should) have 91 skillpoints to spread around.

    In the end you might want to aim for :
    20 itemfind
    20 ww
    20 mastery
    20 bo
    1 bezerk
    1 prereqs
    rest in nat res.
    optional : 1 in frw(costs 2 skillpoints cause of the prereq)

    With the scythes rather high statreq, you might want to fill up BO before WW.

    Also, get some gobs to add to the killing speed. Might cut into your total MF, but it will significantly help your killing speed.

    If I may adres the devil's advocate :
    The barb does have a lot of passives, but few are relevant to the killing speed. Those that are, can easily be filled to the brim while still having your Finditem full.

    As for your first paragraph in your post, you are correct, the only thing affected by itemfind is the chance a corpse will pop.
    % Magicfind on items determines the chance to get a higher quality items both when you kill and if a corpse pops.
    Monster level determines what the highest items and mods are which it can drop.
    I've been told it's far more complex then that, but this way I can at least remember it.
     
  9. goomba

    goomba IncGamers Member

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    the reason u find most baba's, item find, or otherwise using a mace/mart is the very low dex requirements allows one to be close to a vita barb, or go the other route, and split str/vit evenly. I have one of each on ladder actually. (lvl 87 and lvl 86 respectively)

    it also allows you to switch out a mart for a bh+shield if you come across a decent one, and the higher dmg not only allows you to kill pvm more quickly, but if you get hostiled by someone wanting your ear whilst mfing, you at least stand a chance of taking them out as well.

    *shrug*
     
  10. KoalaBearThirtyThree

    KoalaBearThirtyThree IncGamers Member

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    I found what confused me wit hte Find Item skill. It is a sentence from the Arrea Summit:

    "When Find Item is used on a corpse, it gives an X% chance of doing a drop as if you had killed the monster normally. The same treasure classes will be used, but the chance of a successful drop is determined by the level of Find Item, not by the number of players in game." -- Arreat Summit (http://battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/barbarian-warcries.shtml#finditem)

    What does the last part ("determined by level of Find Item not by # of players") mean? Can someone brief me on how the # of players in a game impacts magic find?

    THanks!
     
  11. Locke07

    Locke07 IncGamers Member

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    All mosnters have a chance to drop something weither it be a potion or a godly battle hammer of noob slaying, normally if you kill something the chance of it dropping anything is based on the number of players in a game... so the more players the more amount of items there will be on the ground... now with Find Item it doesn't matter weither not it will drop something because that is dependant on your FI skill... hope that helps?



     
  12. Akukami

    Akukami IncGamers Member

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    If anything, you should stop leveling your Item Find at 16 because the extra 2% you get by maxing the skill does nothing.

    - Akukami
     
  13. Locke07

    Locke07 IncGamers Member

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    Wrong... it does give you an extra 2% Chance... it's just up to you to decide if those 4 skill points are worth 2% more?



     
  14. Akukami

    Akukami IncGamers Member

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    Wrong. I said you SHOULD stop leveling it, not that it was wrong to max it. Read it again. :thumbsup:

    - Akukami



     
  15. goomba

    goomba IncGamers Member

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    partially depends on your build, and available/preferred mf gear.

    if one prefers to pop with say 200 mf, it could quite easily go with a tri topazed hat, angellic armor/ring/ammy rez/mf boots, and rez/mf gloves (or chancies and get way over 200)

    this gives you +1 from the angellics, toss on two bo sticks, buff your pop with BC, and in theory you are able to stop with item find much lower...

    my urker on NL is getting trashed at end of ladder season (he's got a nearly maxed urk, and I have found it just simply wasn't worth it. he also has other build flaws compared to my two ladder babas)



     
  16. Akukami

    Akukami IncGamers Member

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    I think I capped my GFer at 10 Item Find, and I picked up the other 2 skills from Tarn and my Amulet, making for a total of 13 with BC.

    Also, you should delete that other messed up MFer. :thumbsup:

    - Akukami



     
  17. goomba

    goomba IncGamers Member

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    the one with higher vit will be around for bh/sheild, or if nothing else to make it easier to BO chars on the other account, instead of that annoying drop thing happening when two chars from the same account hit the chat area at the same time.

    the str/vit split baba is by far the superior baba however



     
  18. KoalaBearThirtyThree

    KoalaBearThirtyThree IncGamers Member

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    Still unclear on the actual mechanics of the skill...

    How does the game depend on Find Item for hte # of drops? A one player game results in less drops than, say, an 8 player game. Similarly, I interpret this to mean that an slvl 20 Find ITem results in more drops than slvl 1. But how does that work? For instnace, is slvl 20 equivalent to an 8 player game? Or is it slvl 8? Or is it slvl 15? Or whatever?

    The main reason I'm trying to figure this out is because Find Item magic find % only increases marginally at high levels. So what is the non-mf% benefit of going from, say, slvl 10 to slvl 20? Even if the magic find % doesn't go up much, there may be the # of items drop benefit to consider...



    On another note, does it make sense to build a polearm quasi-magic find WW barb? Since polearm does less damage (I can't afford godly items and a grim scythe does not compare favourably to a Steeldriver (I alrady have one)) how viable will this build be? The key concern to me is that Battle Orders will be kind of low if I put 20 points into Find Item (as well as 20 in WW and 20 in weapon mastery). This is compounded b ythe fact that I'll have 140 in dex (Grim Scythe req) so life will laready be kind of low. Thoughts?



     
  19. WarlockCC

    WarlockCC Diablo Classic Moderator

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    When you use the Find Item skill on a corpse, you roll a D100 (hundred sided dice) If you have level 10 Find item, your chance to find = 42%
    Meaning if that 100 sided dice lands on 42 or less, the corpse will produce items again asif the monster was slain again.
    From what I understand, the game is then actually already at step two, since it has already descided to drop.
    normally, after you kill, step one for the game is to descide weather or not to drop anything, based on the number of players in the game. This step one is replaced by the level of your Find Item.
    Step two is desciding what drops and this is where the percentage of Magicfind on your items comes into play. Your MF determines the chance you have at higher quality items.
    The monster's TC determines what treasure class will most likely drop.

    We should get a Orphan in here to explain it better. :)
     
  20. KoalaBearThirtyThree

    KoalaBearThirtyThree IncGamers Member

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    Warlock, my understanding is similar to yours. I guess what I need is more information on this step (the # of items part):

    I think we can all agree that more items will be dropped with higher Find Item slvl. But what is the exact relationship? Would slvl 20 Find Item be equivalent to a 20 player game? Obviously if it is then it would be worth maxing Find Item even if the incremental mf% drops off. Even if slvl 20 "equals an 8 player game drop" then it would be worth maxing (you can literally play single player games and end up with 8 player drops on the Find Item drop (however, the first monster drop on kill won't be good and will be for a 1 player drop)).
     

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