(Barbarian D3) Whirlwind and Attack Speed.

[altermaven]

Alright, I just need to determine something. Does weapon attack speed correlate to the same amount of fury drain, or does fury drain faster with faster attack speed? Need to see if I should be worried once I get both BK weapons on her. And if the latter happens, what's the best way to mitigate fury drain?

Using Wastes 6, I know using Wind Shear is one way, but at 40% stock CHC, I want to go away from that in the higher GR and start Blood Funnel. Maybe I should invest in IK 2? Having a consistent source of fury generation through the Ancients seems pretty interesting, but are there better ways without investing in IK 2? (Belt + One Item, then use RoRG to get the rest of the Wastes benefit, which is what I'm doing for Wastes 6 atm)

If IK 2 is the best route, then it's not so far -- I just have to gamble the belt.

(If this needs to be moved, Please move it. Sorry!)

 

[tougeznut]

It depends mainly on your goal. Maintaining fury is easy enough unless you're attacking a single target for an extended period of time.

Your fury drian is your attacks per second * fury cost of t he skill. If you have reduced resource cost (not recommended) then it's the same number * (1-(rcr%/100)).

It's not recommended because the fury spent usually benefits you somehow. If using IK4 bonus, then it speeds up the cool down of your ancients/wotb. If using IP belt then you get more healing from life per fury spent. The only good time to have rcr is when speed farming bounties in T6 and you're skipping a lot of monsters.

 

[altermaven]

Alright, thanks for the insight.

I was thinking IK2 mainly because I can upkeep Ancients, and that would provide me a steady Fury intake esp. against rift guardians. However, that would cramp me from using the IP belt (Pride of Cassius), which would mean I won't benefit as much from Ignorance Is Bliss rune for Ignore Pain.

On the other side of the coin, having IK2 means I can have Ancients and just use IP for getting out of Jailer moments. Valid point about RCR being a bane, though. I'll try not to use it.

 

[PrvtPiLe]

Some other common sources of gaining fury to keep up the WW train is to use Reaper's Wraps (this in conjunction with Battle Rage: Swords to Ploughshares will fulfill any resource requirements you could possibly need, except maybe on single target - also this is being changed in patch 2.3) and/or Weapon Master passive with works with both BK swords and IK weapon.

 

[ZappaFan]

Alright, thanks for the insight.

I was thinking IK2 mainly because I can upkeep Ancients, and that would provide me a steady Fury intake esp. against rift guardians. However, that would cramp me from using the IP belt (Pride of Cassius), which would mean I won't benefit as much from Ignorance Is Bliss rune for Ignore Pain.

On the other side of the coin, having IK2 means I can have Ancients and just use IP for getting out of Jailer moments. Valid point about RCR being a bane, though. I'll try not to use it.

Jailer isn't a problem with IK2 because you can easily keep WotB up 100%.

EDIT: DOH, brain-cramp on my part, never mind...

 

[altermaven]

Jailer isn't a problem with IK2 because you can easily keep WotB up 100%.

That only works if you actually got IK4 or a setup with ORtZ, which I have neither of. IK 4 + Wrath 6 will require RoRG, which means you won't be using any other ring except for Unity if you happen to run into a pair + follower immunity token.

As I only have one Unity, and the Templar immunity token, I'm pressed for options. BK provides some hefty regen, but while whirlwinding you're effectively spending 0.5 Fury per half-cycle, so roughly 2 minutes of spinning will get you drained quick. Was thinking of Weapons Master, but would that be better tha Unforgiving (or the null Fury drain passive + fury regen)? Considering the spin speed, I might try it.

 

[tougeznut]

Regarding wastes 5/ IK 3:
You need weapons master and unforgiving if you're using any WW other than lightning rune. If you're running the lightning then you can manage your fury well enough up to the RG, and then it gets a bit tricky without the ancients providing you fury or a regen passive.

Ring wise you don't *need* unity until gr44 or so. You can manage well enough with good toughness, striding giant, ancients fury, and physical healing WW. So, you have the option of a CoE, SoJ or whatever else suits your fancy.

I think you can probably even manage high 30s with ancient's fury and insanity with enough toughness and healing WW. Barbs are tough mothers.

Re: pride of Cassius
With enough CDR (~57%) you can keep up IP 100% only if you have a 6 second belt and use the 7 second rune IIRC. Without Orotz (read: non-seasonal) you're going to have wotb up only 50% of the time, so it's not really a viable option past gr40 since you're only getting one source of 50% DR. Plus you're probably going to only use wastes 6 and want to use BK swords over IK 2 with a RoRg. If you're not using an Orotz then your only real option in high GR is 5/3.

I'm not sure what your goal is with the barb though, so this may all be useless info for you.

 

[altermaven]

I have effectively reached the goal with my barb and that is to hit upper GR30s so I have an effective chance of activating gems, while also getting more-than-sufficient blood shard intake. I have a few back-burnered classes - a gen monk, zuni WD and unhallow DH, which are sharing one activated GoE atm - and it's more the useful I have gems ready for them. Barb can handle Rift 36 quite well, and BK had allowed me to ditch Unforgiving in favor of Weapons Master to help sustain the fury pool.

I have just some trash leg rings, but importantly they have crit chance, mainstat + socket, though I really wish I could get inherent CHC+socket so I can roll mainstat or junkstat into CHD. She's currently using a +6 PoC, and not only am I using it for problematic affixes, there's also those blasted armored destroyers! Stunlock, joy! >_<

For the record: she's using reaper's wraps. I don't dip severely enough to warrant S2P on battle rage, as usually my war cry brings it back up to reasonable levels (Impunity) and I am using threatening shout (whichever the % to drop globes rune is, I forget right now). 5/3 only seems ultimately viable if you wind up having a fair amount of attack speed, but not too much that your fury goes faster than suitable replenishment. But my BKs (High damage, +10% Damage, Mainstat, Socket w/ F.Royal Emeralds) along with full 6 seem viable for the moment. I was considering making way for 5+RoRG and using other boots or Leoric's Crown (LC for the increased CDR if I get that) to help toss things up. Fire Walkers, Profane Paulds, heck another IK piece to get IK 2 would be nice (I got belt).

 

[tougeznut]

Grats!

I'm curious what you mean by this:

5/3 only seems ultimately viable if you wind up having a fair amount of attack speed, but not too much that your fury goes faster than suitable replenishment.

In my experience playing above T6 I have very few fury issues with 5/3. The rorg provides 7% ias. I use no RCR%. CDR comes from only shoulders, helm, and paragon. I can keep wotb up 100% from just whirlwind. I usually do rend to snapshot attack speed when I get into huge mobs and that gives me anywhere from 1-6 seconds wiggle room.

Where, specifically, do you encounter fury issues? I'd like to help you troubleshoot if possible.

 

[altermaven]

The only time I start to dip Fury is between mobs (where no hits are done) and Rift Guardians which don't use elemental attacks (Bloodmaw, Perendi excl. Rock slide, Stonesinger). Superstition helps me 75% of the time otherwise during RG fights. But it's usually the melee attackers that don't trigger the fury gain as often.

 

[tougeznut]

Hmm, I've never used superstition. My standbys are usually:

Nerves of steel
Rampage
(Non-lightning WW)
Weapon mastery
Unforgiving
(Lighting WW)
Ruthless
Berserker rage

When you attack bosses do you WW around them in a circle or go back and forth through them? The latter is annoying, but the better option in regards to damage and fury gen.

 

[altermaven]

I actually do go through the RGs, better chance of dust devils hitting them often. I'm not sure if I need superstition at this point considering I can maintain with weapon mastery - and considering I use blood funnel as my WW rune, I am contemplating using something else.

The passives I run now are Ruthless, Weapons Master, Superstition and Tough as Nails. Thinking of ditching Superstition for Nerves of Steel, esp. in higher rifts.

EDIT 11 July 2015: It appears one of my buddies running a different clan has hit the theoretical ceiling with his Wastes+BK setup, and is actually contemplating going for 5/3 IK instead. I think I want to take that route as well - any suggestions as to weapon stats? Should I go attack speed instead of damage? How about offense paragon? I think that it's better that more hits = faster fury spending = faster cooldowns.

Not ditching my BKs though - I can have them for running up to Rift 36 reasonably, and I can T6 bounties pretty fast.