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Barb without BO viable?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Origin, Mar 26, 2004.

  1. Origin

    Origin IncGamers Member

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    Barb without BO viable?

    Would this Barb be viable at all in hell?
    20 Warcry
    20 Conc
    20 Mastery
    20 Iron Skin
    20 Shout
    rest in 1 point wonders and prereq's. no BO whatsoever.
     
  2. skilledlord

    skilledlord IncGamers Member

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    u might actually survive but i find it pointless, bo is one of the main reasons fer a barb. tat's y he can sustain so much damage.
     
  3. HouseBaenre

    HouseBaenre IncGamers Member

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    I agree with skilledlord, its might work, but whats the point? Its like a sorc w/o Tele or a pala without a aura.
     
  4. royalsego

    royalsego IncGamers Member

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    BO is the reason barbs are different from pallies...

    BO = one of the best skills in the game!
     
  5. Zero-unit

    Zero-unit IncGamers Member

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    Most life you could get alone based on a Vita barb is prolly 2.5k Life thats it. Pretty easy to kill.

    [email protected]~
     
  6. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    sure. it seems to me that at around 800-900, all my non-barbs can survive hell. there are a lot of classes doing it.

    my own attempt at it came with a double throw barb in early beta. seemed ok, but from pure scratch i didn't have decent weps (crafted flying axes. :()
     
  7. Rascargil

    Rascargil IncGamers Member

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    i think it's all fine. high defense means you'd hardly ever be hit by ar-based attackers (so long as you don't run). sometimes it's even more useful than having tons of life, like say a 6k life werewolf lagging will die first than a 1000 life barb that gets hit only 7%. ofcourse take into consideration you have full resists here.

    it also has warcry, so easy crowd control there. and i don't think a sorc without tele or a pally without aura is a good analogy. a werewolf without oak sage is not as good either as those have really sucky defense to start with.
     
  8. Red_Zone

    Red_Zone IncGamers Member

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    put at least 1 point into and 1 into battle command because your synergies will make them last longer. Hey, its better than having nothing at all and you can using echoing weapons to boost it higher.
     
  9. Zhidkoe

    Zhidkoe IncGamers Member

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    Just don't understand why?
    To be different from the rest?
    It'll just make you the same but worse...


    Bo is awesome!
     
  10. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    Barbs get:
    4 life per Vitality Point
    Passive Defense Bonus via Iron Skin
    Passive Resistance Bonuses via Natural Resistances
    Passive Faster Run / Walk Bonus via Increased Speed
    They also get a passive AR/Damage bonus via Mastery

    Alas, you should still get more life, more damage and more defense than a paladin for instance.

    Only real reason to use BO is:
    More Life
    More Mana

    Conc is mana friendly (somewhat at least). Puming defense would most surely be viable if you can spare more stat points into vita. Requires a bit better than average gear to pull off.

    The question in the matter was if a barb without BO would be viable. I see no reason why it wouldn't. The only thing you'ld have to worry about are monsters with elemental attacks. But as mentioned above, barbs can get deasant resistances without sacrificing gear.
     
  11. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir IncGamers Member

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    Even done baal runs in hell?

    So damn little barbs there, you'd like any barb that gets there without BO to be banned from b.net permanently :)

    In other words: think about teamplay a bit as well :)
     
  12. insenothepunk

    insenothepunk Banned

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    Gah. A barb with out BO. Isn't that like a sin or something.
     
  13. boochie61

    boochie61 IncGamers Member

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    Ok taking the hypothetical, yes you could do it. Like so many have said here, why would you do it? Now my guess is this is a tank dueler right. That's the only explanation I could think of for this build. You've not only written off bo, for the extra life, but the synergies per level 10%. This seems to be ignoring anything about even a dueler build, since max life seems critical there as well, and you have no protection against elementals with defense and don't have enough life to survive any type of dueling level sorc, nec, or druid skill. If this is pvm, everything in hell is elemental on act 5 practically, and you have no chance for survival without bo. I mean the defense on this would be impressive, don't get me wrong, but defense doesn't do squat against elemental attack in hell, or against an angry sorc, so I don't see the point. With a botd ethereal colossus blade you'd only make about 4k one handed without the synergies (I can make that with a cruel berserker with only a shael and synergies), thats not enough with no bo for one hit kills, so you'd be at the mercy of both pvm and pvp out there. Without the synergies for bo and bash, what kind of damage are you expecting to get?
     
  14. JohnofTesh

    JohnofTesh IncGamers Member

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    Your build could be viable depending upon how you allocate your stat points, but you ought to put 1 point in battle orders.
     
  15. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    If a Barb without BO can't be viable, then any class without CTA wouldn't be viable.

    Or does the majority here seem to beleive that all a barb can do is Whirlwind around...?
     
  16. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    well, a lot of classes don't have to melee. i had a 400 life sorc in .09. (actually like 2xx, but i put all my life charms on her.)

    a throwbarb would be best, imho, but they only gave dt 1 synergy + mastery, so there's really no place to put the points.
     
  17. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    A Barb without BO would still get more Life and Defense than a Zealot Depending on skill choice, in this case Concentration, which would most definetly top most regular pallys. Since a barb get 4 life per vitality point, instead of 3. Of course barb swords cost slightly more in terms of reqs, but max block and stormshield would probably cost just the same as a BO barb, so that's not really a valid point to argue from.

    Double Throw + Double Swing + Mastery is good enough. You're forgeting about something called Tactis and Playing smart. You can't tank and single-hit but 4.5 frames Dual Throw kills pretty fast. And you can still play at a safe distance.

    Battle Cry is probably more viable than War Cry though, as it basicly gives yo 50% extra life vs. melee. And one should not understimate the power of Grim Ward.

    I had a Strength Bear in 1.09. My main intention was duelling but Europe was pretty poor on PvP Druids. So I cleared cows with him. Many commented my speed. And even with base vita I got 2.5K life.

    It requires godly gear to work out a barb with base vita and no BO. But that can be done too. Life isn't really that important. In 1.09 more than 1K life in PvM was an overstatement. In 1.10 you need slightly more and better resistances. But that's about it.

    I have to agree that it's underpowering youself not to use BO, but in the issue at hand, whether it is viable or not I see no reason. Whirlwind gives you an edge over all other melee characters.

    If someone still claims that a Barb without BO wouldn't do any good at all. May I remind you all to read the stats and skills of the Paladin, Assassin, Druid, Amazonand all other melee derivates. None of them have BO and still manages quite well.
     
  18. wisedoor

    wisedoor IncGamers Member

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    for a PvM thrower, BO can be safely exchanged by Grim Ward.
    Throwers play like a zon that deal more damage, run faster, have more resists and don´t have a valk (but Grim Ward makes up for it against most stuff)
     
  19. boochie61

    boochie61 IncGamers Member

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    ok that is true, but no one has really answered my question. Is Origins build type valid, the answer remains no. He doesn't use any synergies, so his damage will suck. War Cries are fine in a smaller amount, level 20 doesn't make any sense (with min mana, and no mana regen gear, it's not a usable option. Too high of mana burn, and again with no synergies, no damage, only stun basically. Again I ask, what is the purpose of this build origin, pvp, pvm, or just to show you can build a barb without bo) If anyone act 5 hell sneaks through the war cry, then hes dead, plain and simple. Melee barb - pally's holy shield - bo - synergies = dead barb. He has to have some plan other than building a barb just to show he could do it. In 1.10 synergies are everything, and to ignore that fact is just plain stupid. Ok, origin, here's the scoop, you want to build a barb without bo. You need to do something to keep yourself from being hit. Put some points in battle cry, back off to a level 5 war cry, max bash to at least get some synergies on conc, back off a few on iron skin and shout, make sure you have at least one in grim ward if this is pvm, none if pvp. Now you have a no bo barb that'll work. The build you propose just won't be very good, but this one probably would work ok for a max def build. Prepare to hot key, because you're going to be busy with this build.
     
  20. Kaffe

    Kaffe IncGamers Member

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    The question was whether the barb would be effective in Hell. I safely assume that is Hell PvM, not Hell PvP.

    Otherwise, with correct gear, synnergies isn't all that necessary (for a melee that is), remember the mastery. Concentrates synnergies give very little anyway, especially with a bar weapon. If anything, slap some points into berserk for higher magic damage.

    Otherwise have to agree on most points there.
     

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