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Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by sukuhdi, Nov 5, 2010.

  1. sukuhdi

    sukuhdi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    I am so excited for this game to be coming out. I was looking over the new traits and the skills they changed. The Barb is gonna be such a powerhorse in d3. I've love the barb to death, but man is he gonna be overpowered.

    - (HOTA)Hammer of the Ancients- (lvl5) does %275 weapon damage + 36 physical damage with %45 chance of critical strike.

    -Bash, at lvl 5 having %260 weapon damage, with a chance for knockback.

    Both of the attacks are pretty quick too, no real recovery time, and each only cost 1 fury orb. Using Ancient Spear to drag em in and smashing with the Hammer of the Ancients is gonna be godly.

    Compared to the other melee class in the game the Monk. Who has fast attacking combo moves, but his damage is nothing compared to the barb.

    -Way of the hundred fists,
    first- %114 weapon damage
    second- 8 strikes for %8 weapon damage
    third- area attack for %90 weapon damage.

    -Exploding Palm
    first- %45 weapon damage
    second- %70 weapon damage
    third- bleeds for 80 dmg over 7 seconds.causes 200% more dmg when moving. If target dies it explodes dealing 60-100% of its life


    Now that seems completely lopsided to me. The barb could do more damage with HOTA than the monk could do with 7 attacks from way of hundred fists. Plus HOTA has a %45 chance of crit with +36 dmg? That is amazing they made a skill with so much damage and crit. If you stack your traits right and get a good weapon and that barb is unstoppable

    If the monk is attacking 8 times for only %8 of his weapon damage, he is never gonna kill anything, let alonse take on a Barb. i dont care how fast he attacks. And i know exploding palm does some damage, but the first two hits dont even do a %100 of his weapon damage. That is incredibly weak.

    Know i love the barb, and i hope they dont nerf him cause i cant wait to give a beat down to some witch doctors, But i want it to be kinda evenly matched.

    LEt me know what do you think? Thank you!!
     
  2. AGTJ

    AGTJ Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    I think they will make all classes viable killing machines. That is the nature of the game after all. Either the barbs skill damage will go down or the monks skill damage will go up (or one or neither could happen). All depends on the trial and error of blizzard as they go along creating the monsters / events the player will find going through the game... and I think all the variable percentages/dmg's will change between now and D3's release.

    Also, where did you get those damage listings for the skills? d.incgamers wiki doesn't have specific dmgs for those skills nor does D3 database.
     
  3. MiniMonk

    MiniMonk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    The Wiki here does have the damage percentage for those skills.

    Hammer of the Ancients

    Way of the Hundred Fists

    Edit: Then again his percentage are slightly different than the wiki, but it is still similar enough. One problem tho is that he seems to be comparing the Barbarian's skills at level 5 to the Monk's skills at level 3.

    Edit 2: Another thing is that we know what Way of the Hundred Fists and Exploding Palm is at level 3(At least at Blizzcon 2009, Blizz might have changed it since.)

    While Hammer of the Ancients level 2-5 are only assumed, which means that they might not gain any of those bonuses that the wiki projects. With Bash we at least now how the skill changes from 1 to 2 and could make better assumption(which will probably still be wrong, but better compared to Hammer of the Ancients.).

    Edit 3: Way of the Hundred Fists at level three will probably be this(Assuming that all the numbers scale up like they have so far done and that these don't change by release.):

    * First hit: A short range dashing attack that deals 132% weapon damage. Grants X spirit points.
    * Second hit: Attack rapidly 10 times for 8% of weapon damage. Grants X spirit points.
    * Third hit: Attack all enemies near the monk for 95% of weapon damage. Grants X spirit points. :

    Exploding Palm(Assuming that all the numbers scale up like they have so far done and that these don't change by release.):

    First hit: 55% of weapon damage. Grants X spirit points.

    Second hit: 90% of weapon damage. Grants X spirit points.

    Third hit: Target bleeds for 100 damage over 7 seconds. Moving causes 200% more bleeding damage. If target dies it explodes dealing 60-100% of its maximum life in damage to all enemies nearby. Grants X spirit points.


     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  4. Qwink

    Qwink Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    I don't think this can be compared. You forget to factor in the recourse systems. The barb skills cost fury to use while the monk gets spirit when he uses combos. I'm sure blizzard will do a fine job in balancing all classes
     
  5. kavlor

    kavlor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    Well if a Monk is attacking fast it means he can apply other mods off a weapon fast like elemental damage or special damage(like D2s Open wounds and Crushing blow).It doesn't make sense that Blizzard would make some skills so obviously weaker there will be reasoning behind it like how skills interact with items and skill runes.
     
  6. Namik

    Namik Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    I wouldn't look on numbers at all untill Beta starts. Most of this numbers are just placeholders, as Blizzard said balancing classes is on the very end of list while making game.
     
  7. MiniMonk

    MiniMonk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    MiniMonk was going to edit his original post some more, but then the site started having long load times that he kept timing out.

    Anyway. Namik is mainly correct here. The numbers don't really mean much right now, but he will point out that if you don't like stage two of Way of the Hundred Fists, then don't use it and use stage two of Exploding Palm after you used stage one of Way of the Hundred Fists. The Monk is meant to mix and match his combo skills to get the most of what he wants out of them.
     
  8. sukuhdi

    sukuhdi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    First of all.. Sorry, I didnt realize the monk skills I listed were only lvl 3/5.
    But even at lvl 5 his attacks are pretty weak. Even with Hundred fists his 2nd hit does 10 hits for 8% damage thats still only %80 of his weapon damage. And the first 2 hits from exploding palm are less than %100 weapon damage. While the third hit from both these skills is decent, I dont think its gonna be pvp worthy.

    The monks combo skills require 2 weak attacks to build up spirit to get that third strong attack. The barb is kind of the same, he has to attack to build up his fury to use his powerful skills. But almost all of the barbs attacks only require 1 fury orb. And once the barb is in battle his fury is going to be increasing every time he gets hit or attacked, which means he will be having fury build up the whole fight.

    While the monk has to do his first 2 combo skills before he can use his 3rd attack, which puts him at a huge disadvantage. If the barb has his fury up he can spam Hammer of the Ancients or Bash over and over, plus each skill he uses will replenish most of the fury the skill cost in the first place (unless his attack misses). I think once the barb has enough fury for 1 skill, he is going to be able generate enough to keep using his skills back to back.

    Hammer of the ancients is Ridiclious, %275 wpn dmg,+36dmg, +%45 crit chance. Thats just amazing

    Wrath of the beserker- * Enter a heightened state of fury, raising several stats for 16 seconds. Monsters with damage immunities will take 42% less damage from the Barbarian's attacks rather than being immune.
    * Critical Hit: +140%
    * Attack Speed: +70%
    * Dodge Chance: +18%
    * Movement Speed: +36%
    * Fury Cost: 3 Fury Orbs.

    That is one barb your going to want to avoid,

    And I know the barb is supposed to be the brute force of diablo, and is meant to have the big hitting attacks. And i know the monk is gonna be the quick moving, fast attacking character, but it dosent matter how fast you attack if your not doing much damage.

    I have a ton of faith that blizzard will make an amazing well balanced game, no matter what. And I know that there is gonna be a lot of changes to all of the classes to even things up before the game comes out, but as of now the barb's #1
     
  9. MiniMonk

    MiniMonk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    This is one of MiniMonk's main problem.

    You don't seem to take into account that the Monk can mix and match his combo skills.

    He could use Way of the Hundred Fists(deals 132% weapon damage.) for stage one then switch to Crippling Wave(Deals 60-90% weapon damage. Enemy damage reduced 30-45% and take 30-45% more damage from attack. Depending if this skill can go higher than level 2.) for stage two, and then use Way of the Hundred Fists again(Attack all enemies near the monk for 95% of weapon damage.) or Hands of Lightning(Not sure what the stages on this is.) for the final stage.

    Also we don't know if stage two of Way of the Hundred Fists can generate Spirit for every hit. If so then that is 18-30 Spirit right there and as the only move that requires more spirit than 25 is Lethal Decoy so far, then the Monk can use Circle of Wrath(Heals 98-158 and deals 30-60 damage.) or Dominate Aura(an aura that causes enemies to take more damage. Unknown percentage.) after every cycle of combos.

    The Monk is all about speed and the buffs and debuffs that he can do to deal more damage or take less damage.

    This is the other one of MM's main problem.

    If you look up the skill you find that level 2-5 is all an assumption. Which means that either Flux or someone else who edited it in is just making a guess. Without knowing for sure what is strengthen from one level to the next then all we can do is make blind guesses. For all we know leveling it up will have it keep it at the same damage(deals 175% weapon damage plus an additional 12 physical damage, and has a 25% increased chance to critically hit. ) and only increase how long you can have the hammer.

    We also don't know if the Barb can use other skills with the hammer, or if the hammer can get benefits from any buffs you use before or after summoning it.

    While MM is glad that you acknowledge that these things most likely are going to be changed eventually. He will have to disagree that the Barb is #1.


     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  10. sukuhdi

    sukuhdi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse



    Ya, the monk can use any combo skill, But it still has to do 1 hit, 2 hit, 3 hit. Every time he is going to want to do some damage he is going to have to do a 3 part attack. I have a very strong feeling this is going to get predictable and boring. Even with mixing up the combo's I dont thinks its going to be effective. If I was dueling a monk, i would know there is a 1-2-3 hit, and would try to knockback,stun,slow, or leap outa the way before the 3 hit came.

    i love the Arena Diablo 3 video on you tube. You can really see how fast paced it is, you can see the 2 barbs going at it, and it is absoutley insane. Battle is going to be nothing like WOW, and a lot like D2. They are attacking so fast, with so many cool special effects, The Barbs in the video is kicking some major ***
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCKtBR91KsY

    I know they will even it out either way. Barb FTW



    P.S. - Mini Monk are you talking in third person? LOL, so lame

    "This is one of MiniMonk's main problem."

    "While MM is glad that you acknowledge that these things most likely are going to be changed eventually. He will have to disagree that the Barb is #1."


     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  11. MiniMonk

    MiniMonk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    Wait your talking about PvP? Now that is a something else entirely! MiniMonk doesn't know how well the Monk will be in PvP, it is still up in the air within his head.

    The Monk has a few long range combo skills and could use those to reach a baba that tries to leap away or use knockback, but that might be enough. To best of his knowledge the baba doesn't have any skills that slows down anyone, so he might have to rely on stun. The Monk will also have an ability to break stun, and they are also going to be harder to hit due to their higher dex.

    That higher dex is also going to allow the Monk to crit more often than a baba and with Hands of Lightning or cold/lightning enchanted weapons he might just turn into a char that relies on stuning the baba before he gets enough fury to do anything.

    Then again babas start with some fury right off the bat in duels, but then the Monk will probably be the same.

    MM will stop right here. He is going into circles inside as well as outside his head.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  12. sukuhdi

    sukuhdi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    lol, Mini Monk please stop talking is 3rd person, you sound like such an idiot.

    "MM will stop right here. He is going into circles inside as well as outside his head."

    lol, ****ing hilarious
     
  13. AGTJ

    AGTJ Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    Kinda wierd. The monks damage breakdown per skill level are on this main page but certain skills aren't: http://www.diablowiki.net/Monk_skills . Guess you have to click on all the skills manually for a more direct description, hm.

    Regardless, I would wait till an open beta because I think the damage percentages from skills are going to be one of the things that have a 100% chance of change between now and then.
     
  14. The Rockman

    The Rockman Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    Theres one big problem here, Blizz has all but confirmed than PvP not using the same skill table as PvE, from this it safe to say that all these skill will be changed even if their values are correct for PvE.
     
  15. ynrog

    ynrog Banned

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    Good, the barb should have an area of attack that deals massive damage when he's surrounded. Look at the The Destroyer's Slash skill in Torchlight. It can be leveled up to sexiness to deal with mobs just fine. The barb is going to have this and will truly kick arse.
     
  16. raveharu

    raveharu Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    Sorry to disappoint you but anything overpowered will eventually be nerfed down for balance.

    Looking at the direction D3 is heading with tons of customizable skills, it will take countless patches to eventually balance out the whole game...

    They won't want another "hammerdin" scenario in D3.


     
  17. Buen

    Buen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    I think there is some basically flawed math in this tread.

    For instance, 2nd level of 'Way of Hundred fists' is the most powerfull skill mentioned so far.

    Lets say both the barb and the monk attack with a standard damage og 100 DMG.
    Then 'Hammer of the Ancients' would do some 375 dmg points, with a good chance og double up as it can crit.

    Way of hundred fists would do some 1080 damage, in roughly the same ammount of time.
    Correct, it might be spread out on different enemies, but it's still damage being dealt.

    Personally I feel that we shouldn't try and go into such details just yet, since Blizzard is most likely far from finishing the game. As such, we are discussing details that won't even be relevant in the final product.

    Furthermore, the Barbarian and the Monk have way different ways of dealing damage, and i have no doubt that they will both be powerhouses.
     
  18. LittleOldLady

    LittleOldLady Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    @Buen:

    That's 8% damage (times 10), not 108%...

    So only 80 damage (but you gain resource, and if you have procs could be good...)
     
  19. Oshi

    Oshi Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    Really, really not worth looking at numbers yet. Lots will change during beta and the first few patches, let alone between now and the release. They'll aim for a style/feel with abilities, and ensure they have a useful place in the character's skillset long before they get down to the nitty gritty numbers
     
  20. Buen

    Buen Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Barb is gonna be a Powerhouse

    Yes, but immagine a basic attack doing 100 points of damage, then a 375% attack would be doing 375 points of damage total.
    Where as way of hundred fists would do 10 attacks of 108 damage, thus doing a total of 1080 damage. I maintain that my math is sound.
     

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