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Bad mannered: Absorb VS Damage Reduced

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Bionic, Apr 30, 2005.

  1. Bionic

    Bionic IncGamers Member

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    Bad mannered: Absorb VS Damage Reduced

    I was in a duel game last night with a bunch of players. I dueled a javzon using charged strike. After I killed her she said it was lame of me using TGgods due to absorb and I told her it was lame of her using SS for the damage reduced. I told her it was like the same principal but she could not comprehend. We were going to duel again with me not using Tgods and her not using Ss but I made my ww barb with the strength glitch. Since I beat her when she had SS, I imagine I would beat her with out it.

    What is your opinion on the subject? Am I correct in saying I can use Tgods to absorb her lightning damage when she uses SS to basically negate some of my damage.
     
  2. '22'Souljah

    '22'Souljah IncGamers Member

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    i think it's fair to use absorb people just cry about it though because it's possible to completely negate their damage
     
  3. mhl12

    mhl12 IncGamers Member

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    i think absorb is a lot worse than dr in many ppl's opinions b/c most chars use a lot of elemental dmg (sorcs, trapsins, etc.)

    and out of all my time on bnet, i never really heard anyone complain about dmg reduction (no offense of course)
     
  4. Bionic

    Bionic IncGamers Member

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    I think so too, its not like I had Tgods, wisp and lightning resist shield. On top of that, when we dueled it was always a close fight. Its not like I cleaned her up, she gave me problems.


    Do you guys agree that its like the same principal though?
     
  5. Throttle

    Throttle IncGamers Member

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    Generally, one absorb item is allowed. Damage reduction is generally not viewed as an absorb item, and people don't consider it bad manners to have any amount of it. In pubby duels, alot of people will use as much absorb as they can, because winning is the only thing that matters here, and if you can do so by rendering your opponent unable to do damage in any way, you are certainly extremely leet and pwnage mofo of 666ness. You get the idea.

    T-gods isn't really much of an absorb item. If you look at something like Raven Frost, it absorbs 20% damage, while T-gods only absorbs 20 actual damage. The noticable difference is the +15% max lightning resist, which is not absorb and is generally not something that people keep in mind when they think about bad manner strategies. I don't even consider T-gods a real absorb item, only things like Ravens, Wisp Projectors, Dwarf Stars and such. You don't see people calling bad manners at somebody wearing a Guardian Angel very often, do you? I know I don't.

    It usually boils down to the defeated player needing something to blame it on. In other words, he is indirectly saying "I am still better than you, and the single only reason that you beat me is because you are wearing that item". In truth, very few single items will cause you to win in an unfair manner on their own, unless there's an obvious item difference (like a BotD barb duelling an IK barb). If your opponent can't beat you because he does 10% less damage due to an item, he probably wouldn't have won anyway. Or that's my opinion, at least. Naturally, if it's a very close call, the winner having a pixel of life left after the duel, an absorb/reduction item could make the difference.
     
  6. Bionic

    Bionic IncGamers Member

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    The zon was using Tstrokes and Griffons so maybe if we dueled again she might have kill me, but I use a two handed Oath Balrog Blade and my ww is close to 7500. It would have been a good duel. I'll have to transfer some items over to my barb just in case this occurs again.
     
  7. Rangniheldr

    Rangniheldr Banned

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    Casters complain that using absorb is "noobish" etc. but do the barbs, palas, druids evercomplain about the casters wearing storm and verdungos and chopping their phyis dmg in half? No.

    Since they use dmg reduction why cant barbs ,druids and palas or even other casters use absorb? Ofc some ppl would complain that dmg reduction should be considered like a " phyis dmg resist". I think a shield or armor counts as physical resist and not dmg reduction, dmg reduction is like absorb imo.

    Another thing i would like to say is that a necro or hammerdin can get very high unblockable magic dmg, nobody can absorb or resist it BUT they can still negate the barbs, druids or palas physical dmg with a storm or verdungos, which i think is actually pretty lopsided.


    just wanted to say what i thought about this,



    greetz rang :clap:
     
  8. Bionic

    Bionic IncGamers Member

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    I agree with you, hammers and bone spear/spirit do a lot of damage, and if you try to absorb it, it wont do any good, the damage is just so high. I mean seriously, a level 50 hammerdin can kill me with 2 hammers. Thats crazy
     
  9. Jerkazoid

    Jerkazoid IncGamers Member

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    i dont see a problem with tgods
    but saying that tgods is no different then 50dr% is unbalanced

    the 50%dr is way less powerfull.

    aborb comes AFTER resistance,, and the tgods gives you the potential to have 85% resistance.
    if u maintain the max resistance with the tgods (85%) each 1 absorb can negate:
    2/.15/.17 = 78 listed lighitng dmg effectivly negated
    with the +20 absorb and 85% res ur looking at 1568 listed dmg gone (per bolt) provided u didnt have full life

    so a 2000 bolt is first cut 17% pvp = 340 pvp
    then 85% resistance (wich is exponentially stronger then 50% wich is the dr% cap for physcal dmg) that cuts 340 down to 51pvp

    the 20 absorb heals u 20life and takes the 51 down to 21pvp.......
    if u had 800 out of 1200 life, 6 of these bolts did 6 pvp dmg.

    where on earth(or hell) will 2k physical dmg be lowered to 6pvp (not counting sorcs with 95%eshield and some DR)

    i dont HLD really, but the tgods really pushes the 1 absorb limit imo bc it has BOTH good absorb AND 10%max resisatnce.. the two work off eachother way too well. however its not like the CSzon doesnt have her share of advantages

    i just want to point out how much stronger 85% +20absorb is then 50%DR
     
  10. Bionic

    Bionic IncGamers Member

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    You bring up a strong point, I know I have max resist with lightning having 85 and the rest 75.
     
  11. soc

    soc Banned

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    In this case, Tgods is okay. The zon is just pissed cause she lost.

    However, there is a big difference between damage reduction and absorb.

    First off, against casters you can max resists, raise your max resists, and absorb. Against melee you can go max block (not many builds go max block), and use 50% dr.

    Let's think about this:
    Anti-Caster:
    95% Resistance is possible
    40% Absorb is possible
    +20 Absorb is possible

    Anti-Melee:
    75% block is possible
    50% damage reduce is possible

    Not only can you take only 5% of the damage their doing (this is after pvp penalty.. really gets pathetic), You can absorb 80% of damage following that (absorb 40%/take 40%). After that, your absorbing 20 damage (another -40 damage to their already pathetic damage).

    75% Although yes blocks 75% of the time, when a hit goes through, the damage isn't reduced by block, it's still whopping a punch. 50% dr isn't even comparable to the stuff above.

    Resistance/Absorb is accounted for every hit you take from a caster, while only Damage Reduce is accounted for every hit a caster takes, because if the 75% block is passed, the damage is still very, very, real.

    P.S. To someone who said that Tgods isn't that effective. If a char is doing more than 10k light damage (or something like this, there was a thread on this) than wisps are better. But Tgods is actually quite effective because of the 1/6 pvp penalty and max resistance really cuts down their damage.
     
  12. Bionic

    Bionic IncGamers Member

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    Dang, maybe I am being cheap. LOL. I have exactly what you talk about.

    I have max resists, Tgods to raise my max resists, and absorb.

    Since we are on the pvp subject, I want to ask you pvp duelers a question. Just how full is your inventory with charms? Im always being asked what my items are and so forth, but no one asks what charms I use. My inventory is so full, I dont have enough room to pick up an ear. (gold OK. J/K)
     
  13. Jerkazoid

    Jerkazoid IncGamers Member

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    well whats the avg dmg the cs zon is hitting you with?

    dont get us wrong the CS zon still can be super powerfull, but the absorbs can get WAY out of control.

    add a 20%wisp to my previous example and it gets crazy reduction.
    each 4k bolt would do 22 pvp

    a small sample in 600dmg increments to find the avg after the negation (im sure !factorials make this easier but i dont know how to do it)
    0 = 0
    600 = 0
    1200 = 0
    1800= 0
    2400= 0
    3000=0
    3600=15
    4200=25
    4800=38
    5400=43
    6000=53
    6600=62
    7200=71

    avg pvp dmg per bolt = 23pvp *6 bolts = 138pvp per cast

    with only 75% resistance and no absrobs the cs zon was doing about 900pvp dmg a cast

    with the 85%res +20%absorb +20 absorb setup is acheiving effective about 96%reduction vs a 7.2k (6 bolts hitting) cs zon


    my duelers are ALWAYS filled with charms... never a space empty on purpose
     
  14. Bionic

    Bionic IncGamers Member

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    Im not sure what her damage was but her using T Strokes and Griffons with the -% mod probably evened out the damage she dealt when I was absorbing it. I think I said that right.

    Thanks every one for your opinion.
     
  15. Damric

    Damric IncGamers Member

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    Do people not realize that there are a such thing as resistance, +maximum resistance, and absorb when they make thier single element dueler? I laugh at sorc's, foher's, trappers, and CS zons when they b____ about the fact they cannot hurt my barb, then I kill them 1 hit with berserk (aww that 50% DR didn't help you). Little did they know I had like 300% stacked resist charms for whatever element situation in my stash.
     
  16. Neuroff

    Neuroff IncGamers Member

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    DR is the equivalent of Resistance, not Absorb. There is nothing that allows you to heal from physical damage.
     
  17. Mr.Grimmy

    Mr.Grimmy IncGamers Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I think absorb gets out of hand too. But....
    You often hear sorcies bragging about their 30k lightning bolt or 22k fireball. Show me any melee char with near this much damage in a single attack. And let's not forget that most magic is also ranged. If they can only use one element, perhaps they should have diversified... I'm not advocating complete absorbing of all their attacks but 1 item of absorb (not counting tgods) doesn't seem so bad.
     
  18. shadowwolfkb317

    shadowwolfkb317 IncGamers Member

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    i think taht DR would be compared to stacking resists not absorb. absorb, imo, is the worst thing blizzard ever created.
     
  19. chocolate31s

    chocolate31s IncGamers Member

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    Personally i dont really think u can tell a person not to stack on absorb/resist.

    I think elemental dmg does have more advantages over physical dmg, e.g.
    ar is not a problem
    generally longer range or wider area of effect
    high dmg is generally easier to achieve than physical dmg
    less item dependent

    and most important Blizzard made the rule that, "elemental dmg can be absorbed/resisted" so when ppl put on absorb gear i really dont think i have a good enough reason to tell them to take'em off.

    btw, I mostly play sorc, when i duel ppl with absorb i just tell them I cannot win against them and unhost them. (if they decide to still push me around, i get me charge/smiter and giv'em a good spanking)
     
  20. dkay

    dkay IncGamers Member

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    if someone absorbs you, change characters. simple as that
     

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