Baal compared to Pindle

Sint Nikolaas

Diabloii.Net Member
Baal compared to Pindle

Well, it's done, I did 50 baalruns to counter the 500 pindle runs I did about a week ago. Why 50? Well, 50 baalruns took me about the same time as 500 pindle runs.
I will list all the stuff first and then compare the best finds witht the best finds from the pindle runs.

2. Milabrega's Orb
6. Sander's Superstition, Howltusk, Crowcaw
7. Ormus' Robes (inferno)
8. Cranebeak, Sigon's Wrap
9. Naj's Circlet, Blacktongue, Goldwrap
11. Skin of the Vipermagi, Rogue's Bow
13. Angelic Wings, Clegleaws Tooth, Tancred's Crowbill
15. The Gavel of Pain, Tal Rasha's Fine-spun Cloth, Sureshrill Frost
16. Trang-Oul's Claws, Crainte Vomir, Credendum, Sureshrill Frost
17. Isenharts Cage, Cathan's Mesh, Gheed's Fortune, The Diggler, Soulflay
18. Rattlecage
19. Cathan's Mesh, Whistan's Guard
20. Eaglehorn, Hellcast, Iratha's Coil
21. Sigon's Sabot, Isenhart's Parry, The Ward
22. Pompeii's Wrath, Bloodrise
24. Ribcracker, Tal Rasha's Fine-spun Cloth
25. Sazabi's Mental Sheath, Widowmaker, Venomward, Goldwrap, Cathan's Seal x2
26. Isenharts Case, Duskdeep
27. Milabrega's Rod, Milabrega's Orb
28. Venomward
29. Warshrike, Hwanin's Splendor
32. Lance of Yaggai, Culwen's Point
34. Tancred's Spine, Isenhart's Case, Athena's Wrath
35. Boneslayer Blade, Griswolds Heart, Thunderstroke, Sanders Taboo, Nord's Tenderizer
36. Executioners Justice, Rakescar
37. Tal Rasha's Horadric Crest, Iceblink
38. Civerb's Wand
39. Trang Oul's Guise, Buriza-Do Kyanon
40. Soul Harvest, Cloudcrack, Shadowfang, Sazabi's Mental Sheath, Cathan's Seal
41. Blastbark, Tancred's Spine
42. Skullsplitter, Darkglow, Hellplague, The Battle Branch, Deathspade
43. Berzerker's Hauberk, Arcanna's Head, Gleamscythe, Arkaine's Valor
44. Arctic Horn
45. Sanders Superstition
46. Tancred's Skull, Doomslinger
47. Immortal Kings Forge
48. Rockfleece
49. Cathan's Visage
50. Alma Negra, Hwanin's Blessing

So.. pretty good findings here. I'll list the best:
7. Ormus' Robes
8. Cranebeak
17. Gheed's Fortune
20. Eaglehorn
29. Warshrike
35. Thunderstroke
36. Executioner's Justice
39. TO's Guise
43. Arkaine's Valor
50. Alma Negra

To remember, my best findings from Pindle are below.. with their run number.
That's it. Quite a long list, but also alot of useless stuff. So, the best things put aside:
41. Ormus' Robes
155. Andariel's Visage
183. Steel Pillar
202. Dracul's Grasp
317. Taebaek's Glory
346. Lycander's Flank
426. Viperfork
458. Gerke's Sanctuary

It's Baal 10 - 8 Pindle. Both had items in the list that aren't high classed but very usefull and both had a load of crap in there too. To me they score about the same. Make your own judging out of this. Remember though, not all these items came from Baal himself, some of them came from a random bosspack somewhere in the chamber.

To me? Well, I just enjoy running Baal more then running Pindle. Pindle is faster and presumably better, but now I've done this comparisation (I know it's not that big.. only 500 / 50) I'll stick to Baal. More diversion, you actually have to do something and Baal can drop everything in the game (which matters for my grail).
Have fun you MF'ers. May this help you out.

EDIT: Here is the pindle thread. The Baal runs were also done by my level 96 sorc with 515 MF.
 

gravitysrainbow

Diabloii.Net Member
Just a thought though- is it "right" or however you want to put it to attribute the drops from the boss packs to baal? I'm not exactly sure either way.

i've read the posts and articles and i know what pindle is supposed to be. but in my D2 career, i've had better luck from baal than i have from pindleskin... unfortunately, since pindle is right there.

anyway- good job running!
 

maxgerin

Diabloii.Net Member
Nice job, Sint! :thumbsup:

As for me, I'll go with Pindy any day.
Sure he can be boring to death, but I did find a good number of TC87 items from him.
And you don't risk killing your character that much compared to Baal.

There are only 2 items Pindy cannot drop right? Azurewrath and Tyrael's?

Good luck to your future runs! :)

--maxgerin
 

kabal

Diabloii.Net Member
I must say that I'm a little surprised at the results. IMO you had some pretty good luck with Baal while your Pindle runs are more in line with what probability dictates. I think that if you take a larger sample of runs (50 Baal runs might take 3 hours, but it's still a small sample size) you'll see that Pindle really pulls away in terms of number of high TC sets/uniques dropped. If someone can dig up the results thread for the last MFO here, we can compare the results in each category.

Btw, are the Baal runs for the MFO at the other place? :)
 

spec

Diabloii.Net Member
just a few questions:
did you go out of your way to kill boss packs in the wsk?
what player setting(s)?
what was the average time per run?
 

jjscud

Diabloii.Net Member
gravitysrainbow said:
Just a thought though- is it "right" or however you want to put it to attribute the drops from the boss packs to baal? I'm not exactly sure either way.
Obviously a minnion drop is not truely a baal drop, but if you are simply looking for items then its items/time that you are usually interested in. In this case to compare baal runs to pindle runs, you should count minion drops and other boss pack drops along the way.

When scoring for MFOs, usually only baal and his 5 minion packs count towards the baal category.

Edit: Nice info, thanks
 

mn4nu

Diabloii.Net Member
maxgerin said:
There are only 2 items Pindy cannot drop right? Azurewrath and Tyrael's?
Pindle cannot drop arachnid mesh either. He can drop everything else but those 3.
 

whomhead

Diabloii.Net Member
Interesting work Sint!

On a side note, the character you use will have a huge effect on the results. For example, a Hammerdin with Enigma can run Baal very quickly and safely, but he will be pretty much incapable of running Pindle. So logically, for that character it makes much more sense to run Baal. With a sorc, as you found, the race is probably pretty close.
 

tweety

Diabloii.Net Member
I think you were pretty lucky with that TC 87 in only 50 runs from Baal. From my experience Pindle drops better, but thats mainly true for TC87 items.
Another difference is that Pindle runs are more safe and you can easily do them while watching TV or some other light entertainment, but Baal runs take a little more concentration.

Nice comparison, but I think you need more runs to be conclusive :) Good luck!
 

cft

Diabloii.Net Member
Hmm, good information. I honestly don't think I'd done 50 baal runs in all my characters combined (I have very few Mat/Pat/Guardians... used to play HC and they died off, now have lots of half-finished chars in NM or midHell)

To me, Baal is pretty scary, he's likely to hit my sorc with that cold V and if it gets pushing her back and then re-hitting her, it's dangerous. WSK is really bad with the OK's for any melee, and the gloams are bad for anyone with low hps.

I wonder if my high-dex blocking builds are more dangerous than a high-vit no-blocking build would be; (talking sorcs/necros here mostly).
 

Derrick1001

Diabloii.Net Member
cft said:
Hmm, good information. I honestly don't think I'd done 50 baal runs in all my characters combined (I have very few Mat/Pat/Guardians... used to play HC and they died off, now have lots of half-finished chars in NM or midHell)

To me, Baal is pretty scary, he's likely to hit my sorc with that cold V and if it gets pushing her back and then re-hitting her, it's dangerous. WSK is really bad with the OK's for any melee, and the gloams are bad for anyone with low hps.

I wonder if my high-dex blocking builds are more dangerous than a high-vit no-blocking build would be; (talking sorcs/necros here mostly).
I personally keep dex base and pump vit as much as possible. I don't really have any problems that way. For Glooms, remember that Lightsabers, Thundergod's Vigor, and Guardian Angel are all good for keeping the lightening damage in a managable range.
 

Sint Nikolaas

Diabloii.Net Member
spec said:
just a few questions:
did you go out of your way to kill boss packs in the wsk?
what player setting(s)?
what was the average time per run?
1. No, I teleport trough the Keep levels and only kill some random (easy killable) bosspacks that are within the chamber.
2. Baal's minions on p8, Baal himself on p1 with his drop on p8 again :D
3. I'm not sure here, I did about 10 runs before this actually started and it came down to about 5 minutes per run. Then I picked my 500 pindle runs, made that up for about 250 minutes and set the number of baalruns at 50 to achieve the same time. Obviously I ran a little relaxter now.. but for the comparing results that doesn't matter much.

jjscud said:
Obviously a minnion drop is not truely a baal drop, but if you are simply looking for items then its items/time that you are usually interested in. In this case to compare baal runs to pindle runs, you should count minion drops and other boss pack drops along the way.
I've seen a couple of people say this. When I run baal, I can't just kill baal. Same thing with pindle, you also kill the undead around him.
I see both the runs as ''MF-runs'' pindle has a really short run where you don't encounter more enemies beside him and his crew. If you do a baal run you encounter alot more monsters beside baal. IMO everything in the run counts.
True, in the MFO only baal and his minions are counted towards the baal category, but that's because the WSK is counted in the lvl 85 catergory. If I want to compare my baalruns with my pindleruns, I compare EACH drop.

IIRC from the ''best'' drops, only Eaglehorn, Warshrike and Thunderstroke aren't dropped by baal.

EDIT: @ whommy 2 below: Yep he's right :) a bit cheesy, however I could finish baal off on p8 aswell and since I do his minions on p8 I don't see the point in giving baal gazillion hp.
 

ahcw

Diabloii.Net Member
Sint Nikolaas said:
2. Baal's minions on p8, Baal himself on p1 with his drop on p8 again :D
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that works. Once the monster spawns as P1, he'll stay P1 even if you change the setting midfight.

Otherwise, good to hear that Baal drops good stuff, I've yet to see it :lol:
 

whomhead

Diabloii.Net Member
You're wrong. :)

The hitpoints and experience are determined at the time that a monster spawns. However, its item drops are determined when it dies. So, if you spawn a monster at a low players setting and then kill it at a higher one, you fight the low HP monster and get players 1 experience, but a players 8 drop. It is generally considered cheesy in that it exploits game mechanics.
 

ahcw

Diabloii.Net Member
whomhead said:
You're wrong. :)

The hitpoints and experience are determined at the time that a monster spawns. However, its item drops are determined when it dies. So, if you spawn a monster at a low players setting and then kill it at a higher one, you fight the low HP monster and get players 1 experience, but a players 8 drop. It is generally considered cheesy in that it exploits game mechanics.
Well, you learn something new everyday I suppose. Thanks for correcting me whomhead :)
 
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