Avengers and Runewords: What of it?

GatoMuerto

Diabloii.Net Member
Avengers and Runewords: What of it?

I am playing the 1-pt Vengance, max resist skills Avenger, and am looking towards endgame and what types of weapons are available. I have the Horizon's Tornado, Nord's, Demonlimb, and Lightsaber, but am interested in trying out one of the runewords just to set myself apart from everyone else. I am rather poor (got all my items from "pity donations") so don't have a huge supply of runes to just toss and play with (ladder). I am trying to pick just one of them but was hoping others have already done the "testing" work for me.

The following are the ones under consideration:
Beast:
Level 9 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
+40% Increased Attack Speed
+240-270% Enhanced Damage (varies)
20% Chance of Crushing Blow
25% Chance of Open Wounds
+3 To Werebear
+3 To Lycanthropy
Prevent Monster Heal
+25-40 To Strength (varies)
+10 To Energy
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
Level 13 Summon Grizzly (5 Charges)

Doom
5% Chance To Cast Level 18 Volcano On Striking
Level 12 Holy Freeze Aura When Equipped
+2 To All Skills
+45% Increased Attack Speed
+330-370% Enhanced Damage (varies)
-(40-60)% To Enemy Cold Resistance (varies)
20% Deadly Strike
25% Chance of Open Wounds
Prevent Monster Heal
Freezes Target +3
Requirements -20%

Famine
+30% Increased Attack Speed
+320-370% Enhanced Damage (varies)
Ignore Target's Defense
Adds 180-200 Magic Damage
Adds 50-200 Fire Damage
Adds 51-250 Lightning Damage
Adds 50-200 Cold Damage
12% Life Stolen Per Hit
Prevent Monster Heal
+10 To Strength

Hand of Justice
100% Chance To Cast Level 36 Blaze When You Level-Up
100% Chance To Cast Level 48 Meteor When You Die
Level 16 Holy Fire Aura When Equipped
+33% Increased Attack Speed
+280-330% Enhanced Damage
Ignore Target's Defense
7% Life Stolen Per Hit
-20% To Enemy Fire Resistance
20% Deadly Strike
Hit Blinds Target
Freezes Target +3
 

GatoMuerto

Diabloii.Net Member
Beast has the fanat aura, which would be interesting to stack ontop of conviction/vengeance, but is the pure %ED that you miss made up for with the fanat aura? I do want speed (main problem I have so far with veng), just wondering on other's experience with it.

Doom would allow me to get rid of the holy freeze merc I am currently using, and the PMH is great, freeing up another equipt slot (using that belt, cant remember which one), but is the -cold resist superflurous with conviction?

Famine also has great damage added, which is added to with conviction, and seems to be the best overall with it's set of stats, but not sure.

Hand of Justice was the last one, just because it was the fire version of doom, with better damage. I don't like the "when level up/ when die" abilities, though. ITD is fun, although once again conviction makes that rather... unneeded.

On top of that, if you have used one of the following with an Avenger, can you mention what TYPE of weapon it was in? IE scourge, berzerker axe, ect.
 

Loboleal

Diabloii.Net Member
Let's make a simple analisy taking a Berserker Axe as base weapon for all that Runeword and let's see the elemental damage output for each one before Conviction:

Berserker Axe: 47.5 Avg dmg.
1 pt in Vengeance, 20 in each Resist aura (+270% * 3 Elem damage)

Beast:
47.5 * 3.7 = 175.75
175.75 * 2.7 = 474.5 * 3 = 1423.5
Total elemental avg damage: 1423.5
9 fpa (20% more IAS to reach 8 fpa attack)
Total elemental avg damage per second = 1423.5 * 2.7 = 3843.45

Doom:
47.5 * 4.7 = 223.25
223.25 * 2.7 = 602.7 * 3 = 1808.3
87.5 * 4 = 350 (Level 12 Holy Freeze with 20 in its synergy)
Total elemental avg damage: 1808.3 + 350 = 2158.3
11 fpa (110% more IAS to reach 8 fpa attack)
Total elemental avg damage per second = 2158.3 * 2.2 = 4748.3

Famine:
47.5 * 4.7 = 223.25
223.25 * 2.7 = 602.7 * 3 = 1808.3
190+125+150+125 = 590 (Famine's inherit elemental damage)
Total elemental avg damage: 1808.3 + 590 = 2398.3
12 fpa (125% more IAS to reach 8 fpa attack)
Total elemental avg damage per second = 2398.3 * 2 = 4796.6

Hand of Justice:
47.5 * 4.3 = 204.25
204.25 * 2.7 = 551.5 * 3 = 1654.4
89 * 4.6 = 409.4 (Level 16 Holy Fire with 20 in its synergy)
Total elemental avg damage: 1654.4 + 409.4 = 2063.8
11 fpa (122% more IAS to reach 8 fpa attack)
Total elemental avg damage per second = 2063.8 * 2.2 = 4540.4


As you can see, Famine has better potential damage. But you can do this with other weapons (faster ones like War Spike) to see differences. I did it with a BA because it is the most damaging 1 handed weapon with better damage/speed ratio available for all that runewords.
 

Amiral

Diabloii.Net Member
... are you able to checkd dmg with 8 fpa at beast? since thats brobably the speed you'll aim at if it only needs 20% exra ias...
 

Loboleal

Diabloii.Net Member
Amiral said:
... are you able to checkd dmg with 8 fpa at beast? since thats brobably the speed you'll aim at if it only needs 20% exra ias...
1423.5 * 3.1 = 4412.8
It's close to others, but Famine can reach its second next break point (10 fpa) with 25% more IAS, so I think is still winning :)
 

slam

Diabloii.Net Member
do those calculations include the physical damgage you would be doing in addition to the elemental damage?


what would be the best total damage for physical + elemental damage - can we include unique's in these calculations to get a true idea of greatest avenger weapon
 

Loboleal

Diabloii.Net Member
slam said:
do those calculations include the physical damgage you would be doing in addition to the elemental damage?


what would be the best total damage for physical + elemental damage - can we include unique's in these calculations to get a true idea of greatest avenger weapon
For an Avenger, its physical damage doesn't count too much since it only gets multiplied by his strenth (no Aura for enhancing his physical damage)

However you can easily add it. Its the first number calculated. In other words, the weapon listed damage:
Beast: 175.75 Avg damage
Doom: 223.25 Avg damage
Famine: 223.25 Avg damage
HoJ: 204.25 Avg damage

Famine still wins :D
 

sputnik78

Diabloii.Net Member
Loboleal said:
For an Avenger, its physical damage doesn't count too much since it only gets multiplied by his strenth (no Aura for enhancing his physical damage)

However you can easily add it. Its the first number calculated. In other words, the weapon listed damage:
Beast: 175.75 Avg damage
Doom: 223.25 Avg damage
Famine: 223.25 Avg damage
HoJ: 204.25 Avg damage

Famine still wins :D

Yes, but doesn't Beast multiply the physical due to fanaticism? And that multiplier then helps leeching... and leeching life is very important.
 

Loboleal

Diabloii.Net Member
sputnik78 said:
Yes, but doesn't Beast multiply the physical due to fanaticism? And that multiplier then helps leeching... and leeching life is very important.
Opss, yes I forgot it.
Lvl 9 Fanaticism: +186% ED so:
175.75 * 2.86 = 502.65 Avg damage.

Beast wins in physical damage (as expected), but still, that is a very little damage to try to leech from it. Taking into account chars strengh, let's say about 200, you can raise your physical damage up to about 900 Avg damage.
A 15% ll setup would leech 5% of 900 (1/3 leech penalty in Hell). 45 hit points every 8 frames (your best attack speed) is not too much to stay alive.
Elemental chars are not spected to leech too much, so I would aim for maxing elemental damage.
More elemental damage = Less time a monsters can hit you = Less life you'll lose. :D
 

slam

Diabloii.Net Member
now i see why an avenger needs so much leech.

say you had two weapons, one that did 60 to 90 physical damage and another that did say 20 to 30 of each elemental damage (60 to 90 total). what one would be the winner? i guess i'm basically asking if you should look for high elemental damage or high physical damage for an avenger weapon.
 

Loboleal

Diabloii.Net Member
slam said:
now i see why an avenger needs so much leech.

say you had two weapons, one that did 60 to 90 physical damage and another that did say 20 to 30 of each elemental damage (60 to 90 total). what one would be the winner? i guess i'm basically asking if you should look for high elemental damage or high physical damage for an avenger weapon.
You should always aim for elemental damage since your main aura (Conviction) only enhances elemental damage (lowering monster's resistances)
 

Rius666

Diabloii.Net Member
i still think the best avenger weapon in the game is definitely famine. Its got enough phy ed to keep up with most other weps. But more importantly its got the most massive total elemental dmg of any weapon in the game (not including set weps like ik maul with full set) and elemental dmg is what ur going for with an avenger
 

GatoMuerto

Diabloii.Net Member
Woo! I was almost going to give up hope on this question. ^_^ Glad that there are people who are inclined enough to work out the particulars.

The numbers are great, and gives a good indication of which ones to use. The resulting numbers are close, with famine and beast being my top two choices. I'll do a little more soul-searching (as well as an eye on the trade areas) to see which one I can afford sooner.

Crushing blow, and the party-friendly fanat was the deciding factor for beast, and the pure damage/ leech for famine.
 

danc133

Diabloii.Net Member
Just my $.02 but one other factor besides overall damage putting famine in front but the added 12% LL. You can't have too much leech on an avenger in hell. The CB is easy to obtain for example goreriders. The other thing at only lvl9 the fanat aura is only about 12 yards so isn't as much a party issue either.

First round is on me! :drink: :buddies:
 

Cod

Diabloii.Net Member
GatoMuerto said:
Crushing blow, and the party-friendly fanat was the deciding factor for beast, and the pure damage/ leech for famine.
in all honesty, if it's crushing blow you want, i'd go with famine and get your crushing blow from other sources. famine's got two things that are very nice in my opinion: prevent monster heal and ignore target defence. i agree, beast would be very nice, but think about massive elemental damage from venegance, monsters don't regenerate, nice leech, and ignoring the target's defence, all adds up to a nice monster killing machine.
 

GatoMuerto

Diabloii.Net Member
Cod said:
in all honesty, if it's crushing blow you want, i'd go with famine and get your crushing blow from other sources. famine's got two things that are very nice in my opinion: prevent monster heal and ignore target defence. i agree, beast would be very nice, but think about massive elemental damage from venegance, monsters don't regenerate, nice leech, and ignoring the target's defence, all adds up to a nice monster killing machine.
LoL. I was saying both famine and beast were fun choices. If you have a spare gore riders laying around, I'll be glad to take it off your hands (/pity mode on) since I am rather poor (/pity mode off), but as it stands I have to be rather careful about the mods I want and on what equipment. =/ I can't afford most of the uber gear, and as most know, meleers tend to live or die by their equipt selections. I don't have a single shaftstop, although I think I have collected 3-4 strings of ears, and have a grand total of 1 stormshield for 5 characters between myself and my wife. Trade SS for a HoZ, anyone? ^_^ That would just mean I have to fight with my wife over who gets to use it! Hehe.
 

Cod

Diabloii.Net Member
GatoMuerto said:
If you have a spare gore riders laying around, I'll be glad to take it off your hands

heh, i'm still using goblin toes, doing just fine :thumbsup:
 

theBlackKnight

Diabloii.Net Member
Dont you want a high physical damage to have that +% fire lightning and cold damage from?

math in my mind to the way I think it works out IF the % elemental damages are multipliers of the base damage

100 base damage weapon
*3.70 = 370

150 base damage weapon
*3.70 = 515

If Im right, then you just want a cheap high damage weapon right?
like heavens light?
 

Mr.E

Diabloii.Net Member
If you can bother to get a point into Redemption then you should be fine regardless of leech... =[
 

slam

Diabloii.Net Member
theBlackKnight said:
Dont you want a high physical damage to have that +% fire lightning and cold damage from?

math in my mind to the way I think it works out IF the % elemental damages are multipliers of the base damage

100 base damage weapon
*3.70 = 370

150 base damage weapon
*3.70 = 515

If Im right, then you just want a cheap high damage weapon right?
like heavens light?
that's what i thought too - however, you need to calculate the increased damage from conviction. who knows what the numbers would be like then....
 
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