Avenger Stats

KEEO

Diabloii.Net Member
Avenger Stats

I disliked my last pally's skills so I ditched it and started anew. My question is: What works best with the kind of paladin subclass called: "Avenger"?

vengeance is mana hungry so I suppose I'll need high energy/mana stealing weapons but what is known to work the best? I'm planning on maxing out Conviction and Vengeance and maybe even completely skipping out on a lot of other useful skills to make teh l33t "pure" avenger I learned about on this page: http://www.diabloii.net/characters/paladin/types.shtml
(I DID read the whole thing and thought about it for a long time before making the decision, so plz ignore the fact that the avenger is at the very top due to the alphabetical order).

considering how useful it is to pretty much ignore immunities in Hell diff with Conviction, I bet there're probably a billion people using this subclass. So gimme some tips n' hints.
 

doubleOObubble

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm not an expert on this, but I think there are alot of un-leechable monsters in Hell, so maybe you'll find yourself buying new Mana pots every minute? Just a thought.
 

skunkbelly

Diabloii.Net Member
There are two main builds for a vengeance pally.

1: Max vengeance, Max conviction, put 10 or so in each of the elemental resists. 70 skill points plus prereqs. Uses mana like crazy, gets extra damage and AR bonuses.

2: 1 pt. in vengeance, Max conviction, Max each elemental resist. 81 skill points plus prereqs. Uses far less mana, but also loses extra damage and AR from vengeance points.

Either can work fine, but especially at low levels, you'll be sucking down mana potions like crazy (especially with build #1). Another thing you can do to help is drop a point in Redemption. As long as it's OK with the necros :D And of course, you could also consider using %-damage-to-mana gear, like Nightsmoke and Tal's Belt.

Finally, I'm sure you know this, but just in case... some people are under the impression that vengeance is safe against IM critters. NOT SO. It doesn't convert your damage, it just adds elemental damage to your attacks. Your base physical damage is still done, and IM still cheerfully returns it to you.
 

STINGER

Diabloii.Net Member
Anyone ever come up wiht a damage comparison from the Max Veng vs 1 point and resist arura setup?
 

skunkbelly

Diabloii.Net Member
Yep, that's a nice strategy guide. To the author: :worship:

I've never seen a numerical comparison, however, the damage done by maxing vengeance would seem to be much better. You get 6% extra damage in each of three elements for each point in vengeance, and 10% extra damage in one element for each point in a resist aura. So 18% extra damage (plus AR bonuses) for each point in vengeance, vs. 10% extra damage (plus .5% extra passive resist) for a point in a resist aura. So, basically, the difference beyond the basic level 1 vengeance would look like this:

level 20 vengeance = +184% x 3 elements = 594%
level 10 in each resist aura = 10%x30 points = 300%
Total extra elemental damage = 894%

VS

level 1 vengeance = 70% x 3 elements = 210%
level 20 in each resist = 10% x 60 points = 600%
Total extra elemental damage = 810%

So when the builds are complete, there would be a total of 84% difference in damage. So the real questions are (1) do you need the AR bonuses from vengeance, and do you have enough mana and/or leech, or (2) is it more important that you have the extra 5% of maximum resist for each of the three non-poison elements. And the answer to that depends entirely on your gear, and perhaps a little on your playing style.
 

Sip

Banned
question

would it be better to max one specific synergy for vengeance (Ie: resist fire/lit/cold). Isnt it better to have a maxed Cold resist and low lit resist instead of having about 10 in each. (like for cold immunities or lit immunities?)

oh yeah, how does vengeance add to elemental damage? Say i have 1-200 lit damage in charms and i max lit resistance, does it amplify my lit damage like it would be 1-200 lit damage X 300% added lit damage?

So in this theory, it would be best to get an inventory of 1-30 lit damage small charms and go Vengeance+Lit resistance+conviction= like 55k lit damage.
 

CoonerTheRed

Diabloii.Net Member
not really. the % to max resist is scalable, so 20 in one vs 10 in two doesn't benefit much unless you really want the total extra resists in one element, like maybe you really want 80% max fire resists, and don't care about cold. But then you would do much more fire damage, so you'd have a harder time against fire immunes, but an easier time against cold immunes.

veang adds to your base weapon damage, so added elem damage on anything doesn't help much.
 

GrnEggsNHam

Diabloii.Net Member
Sip this would work much better with a bow enchant sorc :), just after maxing your enchant and warmth and FM then max LM and load up on the lightning charms. Would actually work out pretty well if the lightning dmg was carried over to all the monsters in the fire explosion like the fire dmg is? Can anyone verify this? Also I am just assumeing that LM is working like it did in 1.09 where it takes into consideration all lightning dmg then applies its % ed. Hmm sorry to hi-jack the thread :( but your questions are pretty much answered hehe.
 

itsmillertime

Diabloii.Net Member
if your worried about mana leech you can go the 1 pt vengeance route. you wont have to worry about AR all that much once you get conviction, and for my own two cents i think all the resist you can get in HC is very helpful.
 

Forbiddian

Diabloii.Net Member
itsmillertime said:
if your worried about mana leech you can go the 1 pt vengeance route. you wont have to worry about AR all that much once you get conviction, and for my own two cents i think all the resist you can get in HC is very helpful.
But if you have Guardian Angel, anything over 10 in all is a waste.

I would consider the fact that mana potions are now purchasable and don't really matter, especially next to a bunch of damage.

Note: with the 10 all and Vengeance route, you're done 10 levels earlier. That's 10 extra skillpoints and they can be put into a wider range of skills or more damage from the Resists.




As for a Weapon, how about Aldur's Rhythm?

It's pretty cheap, has decent range/speed, three sockets, dual leech, and has high elemental damage (not multiplied by Vengeance, but relevant because Conviction rips apart the resistances). The damage is pretty light (something like 50-94), but it's 1H and three socketed, so it can be improved by steroids.
 

GrnEggsNHam

Diabloii.Net Member
Aldur's rhtym has very little %ed (if any?) so 3 40% ed jewels or jewels around that % would boost its dmg pretty well.
 
Top