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Auto stats...and skills?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Sass, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Auto stats...and skills?

    I was just thinking about auto stats and a comment of mine about how certain classes might get a specialized auto stat.


    For example, not everyone would get the str / dex and the rest in life. A barb would likely get more STR, Monk more DEX, Wiz more ENG, or following that archetype feel to the char.



    Then it hit me, what about trees?

    Officially, we have none. Regardless, the skills will naturally still flow toward one niche. A berserker won't have a shield + DR%, but we will have charge and WW ;)


    Then it really hit me. Those trees (even though they're gone, I'll be referring to the old trees for example's sake) could determine the auto stat layout.

    A Berserker goes for big damage, and doesn't focus on high life, defense, etc. This barb will get a boost in STR, maybe a few into DEX, VIT, etc, but his focus is STR.

    A Juggernaut will focus on defense, life, and just being a tank. He'd get more VIT, some STR and DEX, but life will be his focus.


    An "Arcane" Wiz would have more of her "Arcane Power", which boosts damage already. A blasty build gets more and more blasty.




    How is this determined? My guess is that the most % of skills in a tree gets that tree's niche stats.

    The sample barb has 60% of his skill points in the Juggernaut tree. He gets more life than he does the rest.

    A barb has 75% in Berserker tree, so gets more STR than the Juggernaut barb, and consequently less life.




    The tricky part is a 33/33/33, or 50/50 thing. A "base" stat could be used. Assuming 5 points, it'd be 2 str, 1 dex, s life, or some variation, and would depend on class (Wiz less str an dex, but more in energy, etc).




    Suggestions? Comments? Class number lay outs?













    This is all speculation. I figure it's something neat to mull over and discuss for the moment.
     
  2. sirroman

    sirroman IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    I wouldn't stress about making skills changing the auto-placement of stats, since it opens a can of worms of exploit, especially when we may have some kind of skill respecs.

    It's possible, maybe you should have a choice each level (or one that you choose one-time and may or may not change later) that change your archetype, like you said, and thus changing slightly the stats placement. This way your idea would be much more simple to explain and implement (it's kinda of a hybrid-auto-stats).

    But mostly I believe they will (*should*) implement a single auto-stats for each class (like you said, wizz receiving more or less of this or that) and leave the rest for your character (stats) optimization, whatever it will be (talisman/item-sockets/???).
     
  3. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    Meh. Don't like it. Stat choice should be independent of skill choice. Under this system, an Optimal Barbarian Tank would be rather crudely shoved into direction of putting points into the Battlemaster Tree to remain competitive simply in the attribute aspect.

    While there is something to be said for the choice between tankiness through intelligent skill choice and tankiness through sheer attribute stacking, this system has a second inherent negative effect it merges two different customization aspects into one. It drastically reduces permutations for build variety (crude example, ignore strength) - if Arcane Wizards are synonymous with Willpower, Storm Wizards are synonymous with Dexterity, and Conjuration Wizards are synonymous with Vitality, you have 3 natural choices and hybrids between them. If you keep them separate, you have 9 separate base choices before going into hybrids.

    There are standard arguments to be made for reducing customization in favor of ease of balance, but I think this is one case where it really just really makes skill picks more complex and less granular than they should be.

    This system can work for a tree based system ala WoW where each tree creates a very clearly designed roll for the class, Diablo is suppose to be a lot more freeflowing then that. If they make the skill trees into a true "pick and choose your ingredients" buffet, why do a 180 by attaching weight to them in form of attributes?
     
  4. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    I prefer to be able to make a build based on the new items I've just found. This makes getting new/awesome items more rewards and makes the hunt worthwhile. If new items require a change in skill placement then I'm happy.
     
  5. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    I expect passives to be trainable (as in, you buy them from some kind of NPC) and actives to have their own skill trees, just like in previous Diablo games. I think it's best if it's totally up to the player to figure out how he wants to customize his stats (as much as the system allows) rather than have some auto stat auto skill feature do that for him.
     
  6. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    If you keep them separate, you have only 3 builds, not 9.

    If they're separate, auto stats will be whatever is normal, and it'll be that way for all 3 builds. Further customization is up to the player, but can also be done under this system, so doesn't impact anything.


    You'll need to explain please. D2 has some trees that were purely passive (zon's Passive tree and sin's Shadow tree). Auras can be debatably passives, but an active one. >> However that works.



    Regardless, we know that stat customization was out, so this is just a way to put it back in.
     
  7. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    My argument was under assumption that there is another planned system to customize stats. Gems might be it, or it could be something else entirely. Still, even if there isn't, I think it would be more interesting to have skill picks as their own choice with nothing else interfering.

    As mentioned in the other thread, passives seem to be divorced from skill points right now. 25-30 active skills per character and we pick the passives in some other fashion that they are holding out as a surprise for Blizzcon.
     
  8. Telzen

    Telzen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    Yeah stats should be separate from skill selection. I assume each class will have its own stat baseline. As in every level 30 wizard will have the same base stats. Then you can tweak your stats with items, gems and whatever else they have planned.
     
  9. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?


    you think we will get 2 points at level up? 1 for active skill and 1 for passives? i was thinking we will get points like normal and we pick between active or passive skills but are only allowed to "purchase" 7 active skills. very curious to see how it plays out, it could be far better or worse imo. personally i am not against getting seperate points for active and passive skills, anything extra to do at level up is good with me


     
  10. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    Don't particularly care what the mechanism for passives is, to be honest. As long as there is sufficient choice/variety and all the cool passive effects I saw back when they revealed the class are still there. The important bit is that the fact that they separated the passives from actives, which opens a lot more variability in builds assuming they didn't sacrifice the number of passives.
     
  11. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    This would make for a better bonus after a level up. Instead of a single skill point you can increase a passive and an active.



     
  12. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    @ OP: I do not want the game to assume that just because i invest in the juggernaut "tree" i want strength over dexterity or whatever. There not being a system to allocate stat points is already stupid enough, the game pigeonholing me into character stats i didn't ask for just because i choose a certain skill over another is a downright horrible idea.
     
  13. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    The point of all of this is preventing the "pigeonholing". Customized skills are taken away from the game and put back in player hands. The player did ask for it due to the conscious selection. Leaving to purely the game's choice is what you "didn't ask for", not this.



    Not wanting a strong juggernaut is just being pedantic.
     
  14. Doppel

    Doppel Banned

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    Lol wut. Horrible idea is horrible, i rather select "i wanna play a strong juggernaut" as its about as dumb yet less confusing. :thumbup:
     
  15. In the name of Zod

    In the name of Zod IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    I would just like the play mode for people that want to apply stats themselves. It could be made a part of hardcore, as an added bonus we get the rainbows removed. I do want a level where we can bash a rainbow colored unicorn and it gives birth to evil smurfs just before it dies. :coffee:
     
  16. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    Not exactly. You might decided that Juggernaut skill set up has enough damage on its own and decide that you want a lot of Dextirity for the crit shenanignas or pump Vitality to improve the spammability of Juggernaut skills.
     
  17. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    i would like it alot, i really want as much to do as possible on each level up. this is even more so important to me with less levels to "play" with


     
  18. lone_wolf

    lone_wolf Diablo: IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    sounds like a stupid idea as you are forced into a role blizzard made up. No matter if you agree or disagree of what that role include.
     
  19. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    We're already forced into a role by the auto stats. This one lets us choose our role, not Blizzard.

    Gems can still boost dex regardless of system though. This would allow you the same customization, but be more powerful while doing so.


     
  20. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Auto stats...and skills?

    Yes, they can, but by virtue of being one of 2 primary systems, the customization is diluted. Whatever compliments gems/equipment needs to be as powerful and varied in terms of customizing attributes. Tying attributes to skills is decreasing variety when compared to a more freeform attribute modification system.

    I'd have thought with your rebellion against the 7 skill system you would want every bit of customization as you could get your hands on.
     

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