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ATMA rune cuber!

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by dem, May 21, 2005.

  1. dem

    dem IncGamers Member

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    ATMA rune cuber!

    ATMA is the greatest thing!

    but wouldn't it be super great if it had a rune cuber!

    you specify the rune you want and it looks in your stash for appropriate runes and chippies, and cubes them for you.

    i thought of this because, i'm currently cubing all my runes since the beginning. (it's making me dizzy and nuts!)

    trying to make a completely legit , self-found enigma!

    maybe we can petition the programmer!

    thanks for your time.
     
  2. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Well this is on a level with a bot that runs the countess for you so I doubt this will get implemented...
     
  3. seige

    seige IncGamers Member

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    ATMA is great, no one will doubt that. It has been spoken about quite a lot about cubing runes via ATMA and in fact if you right click you will see the Doc was implementing it into his next patch.
    From what I have read, it was decided upon because of problems with rune trading etc. I'm a bit hazy about this. What I read was awhile ago now. If you look in the ATMA thread you will find a lot more information about it. As for chippies and runes. I personally prefer to cube them the original way. It may take some time, but its worth the pleasure it gives :) Especially if I'm after a specific rune. If I cube all I have I may pass the one that I really need. I hope that makes sense. Blame that on this flu if it doesn't :(

    - Jas :howdy:
     
  4. maxgerin

    maxgerin IncGamers Member

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    Why so Nightfish? :scratch:
    I see nothing wrong with the idea since the program won't create new runes out of thin air, but rather cube your runes for you to save you the trouble of doing it yourself. It would use the same formula.
    But that's given Hakai will actually work on ATMA again for something like that... I'm quite sure he already considered that, but thought otherwise.


    dem: don't bother with the lower runes... it's really a waste of time imho... and base on first-hand experience. Just a suggestion. ;)

    --maxgerin
     
  5. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Well, think about it. Running the countess takes time, nothing else. If you had a bot to do that you could save a lot of time. Cubing runes takes time, nothing else, if you had a bot to do that you could save a lot of time. The next step is to make something that automatically transfers your runes and gems from your inventory to a stash. It's all pretty minor but it all reduces the price you pay for your runes. That price is time.
     
  6. Sidhe

    Sidhe IncGamers Member

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    It's a lovely waste of time though, a bit mind-numbing, but a good way to kill time if you have too much on your hands... (yeah, i cube them up too, takes ages ;))
     
  7. kabal

    kabal IncGamers Member

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    That would only be true if he had a few billion El's and the accompanying gems already sitting in his stash. Even if he didn't have to waste time manually cubing the runes himself, the time it takes the find the number of low runes required still makes it impractical.

    @dem - The only Enigma rune you could cube from El's, Eld's, Tir's, etc. is Ith. :p Trying to cube Jah + Ber with anything lower than Ist is unfeasible, and I personally wouldn't try to do it with anything lower than Ohm/Lo.
     
  8. SeDnA

    SeDnA IncGamers Member

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    If people want to cheat, why do they come here? They can make enigma and whatever items they want, so I don't see why we worry about it.
     
  9. Artagas

    Artagas IncGamers Member

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    I'd vote against this change too. (err..well..do i get to vote?:p )
    Atma is awesome for storing/organizing but imho it should not tinker with items in any way whatsoever. if we allowed that the next step would be a built in shop in atma where you can sell things and buy potions/gamble. Than we would end up with a built in mephisto for your running convenience.
    (on the practical side: cubing up low runes makes no sense, unless you enjoy doing it like Sidhe. cubing up high runes doesnt take much time because you dont have that many)
     
  10. Sidhe

    Sidhe IncGamers Member

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    Just out of curiosity; why does about half of the replies go on about duping? Dem never implied anything of that kind, rather the opposite... It's just an idea for a time-saving device, guys, please lighten up.
     
  11. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Just roughly guessing I'd say that the time it takes to cube the runes is about equal to the time it takes to run for the runes. Maybe it's even greater than the time it takes to run for them. What would you say about a program that doubles my runes? That sound like a good idea? It's essentially the same thing.

    Because there is no real right or wrong. What one views as cheating the other one views as perfectly fine.


    Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't really mind this change because I am not that concerned about legitness. Imo fun > being legit. And if this increases the fun for you, by all means go for it. (if you can code it) But you have to bear in mind that people will shun you for straying off the legit path.


    Sidhe, the point is that the result is the same whether I dupe my runes or halve the time it takes me to get them. Either way I end up with twice the amount of runes without actually "working" (running & cubing) for them.
     
  12. SeDnA

    SeDnA IncGamers Member

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    I don't mean that I'm cheating lol. I mean that if someone wants to use a countess bot to exploit this function, he could just hack and edit items to make himself godly and he would be able to create an enigma out of thin air and such. So I don't see what's wrong with this function since the stuff are self-found.

    Edit:
    Simply put,
    Autocubing = More time to do runs = Double the runes.
    Atma MULING = More time to do runs = More chance of getting more items.
    So I don't see the point in your arguement about the doubling runes since ATMA's Muling function already allows SP people to save time on muling...
     
  13. maxgerin

    maxgerin IncGamers Member

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    True enough, if you consider the economics of time.
    But to some extent, that is an exaggerated analogy Nightfish, imho.

    For example:
    Scenario 1: produce 10 cases containing 20 apples each out of thin air.--> this would probably require witchcraft.
    Scenario 2: arrange ten cases containing 20 apples each, and you are given 10 cases and 200 apples. 200 apples being the runes, 10 cases being the gems needed. Just an example...
    In your anology, you are saying that both scenarios are similar. Which, imho, is totally different.

    And since rune trading is not allowed here, it won't matter, right?
    Rune here is considered as priceless (both for having no economic value and, especially for the high runes, for having much utility value).
    The utility you get of using a rune will not increase or decrease whether you cube it yourself or use a program to do it, right?
    Though, I don't know about other places that allow rune trading if they will consider this legit...

    Oh well, this will eventually boil down to whether Hakai believes that this is perfectly OK and that he is willing to spend the time to do this add-on, and whether the community will allow it, or will not consider it as witchcraft. :p

    --maxgerin
     
  14. kabal

    kabal IncGamers Member

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    That depends on which runes you're doubling. If I magically doubled the number of Sur's in my stash I'd have an Enigma, if I doubled the number of El's I have I'd just have more El's. If the drop rates for low runes (El - Amn) were doubled, do you think that would have any effect at all on the number of Enigma's out there?
     
  15. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Sedna, you didn't get what I said at all. What people consider cheating varies from person to person. I didn't imply anything about you. It's the same with atma. I can definetly see how people could consider it cheating. Like I said earlier I don't give too much about all these petty discussions.

    The thing is that atma saves you far less time when MFing than this rune utility would. The more items you find the less you need to mule off while with runes you always mule them. After a rather short while you only need to mule one item every few dozen runs or so.

    Kabal, so duping runes is alright unless it's a high one? Where is the limit? Amn? Fal? Um? Vex? On a sidenote, I think that rune drops have nothing to do with the number of enigmas out there.

    Max, it matters because if it's viewed as unlegit and you use it, everything you use becomes unlegit, too.


    Yes, yes people I can see you can make arguments for both sides. Go talk to a purist and see what he thinks. More often than not it boils down to "do I want to use it?" and if the answer is "yes", it's legit and if the answer is "no" it's a cheat.
     
  16. Sidhe

    Sidhe IncGamers Member

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    I know what you mean, and i get your point. All i was saying though, was that Dem comes up with an idea, and the thread turns into a thread about duping... No need to half and half call someone down for having ideas in my pov...

    As for the "legit path"; the most legit would be to just play the game and not use any third party programms or extra things whatsoever, but about 99% of the SPers uses Atma, uses calculators, uses guides, etc, (and yeah, so do i) all of which don't come with the game, you know? So yeah, a line should be drawn some place, true enough, but the exact "where" is kinda vague... The only line there's now is between legit and hacks/dupes/warez, but there's a big grey area in between those two...

    Damn, i wish i could express myself better, i'll just leave it at this...
    *confused*

    edit: i'm so slow!

    Best argument i've seen on the whole duping/hacking issue in all the time i've been here... ;)
     
  17. Nacaa

    Nacaa IncGamers Member

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    Wow, just wow. Are people becoming lazy or what? Why not have a program that does everything for you so you don't have to spend any amount of time on this game anymore? Pfft...

    Just spend the amount of time it requires to cube the appropraite rune. Just because you have what is required to cube one, doesn't mean an bot/program to cube them is allowed. I don't use a bot/program to run Mephisto over and over again just because I got what is required to run him do I? And yes, it's the same thing.
     
  18. SeDnA

    SeDnA IncGamers Member

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    Sorry Nf english isn't my native language so I guess i misunderstood.

    Atma - A utility that allows you to transfer items very conveniently from one character to another character/stash. Without atma, you would have to spend time looking for a host in order to transfer items from character to character. If you do not have a host you can't even mule, and thus have to use another character to mf or wait until you find a host. I see lots of time spent. If you would argue that you have 2 computers, I'm sure many of us out there don't have 2 computers and thus I don't see how that argument can be implemented. Atma also organises items and runes for you so you do not have to spend time remembering where you put stuff or name your characters and stuff like I do when I play bnet(i.e. El2LemElf_xx). If you do name your characters and stuff it would mean that in order to mule an SoJ and a death cleaver you would need to change char 2 times. More items = more change of characters. I see lots of time saved for you to do more more more mfing runs thanks to atma.

    Rune Cubing - This is just an add-on feature to save more time while using atma. More time for your mfing runs, rune hunting runs and so on.

    This is just my opinion so I see many people disagreeing with me.



    @Nacaa: According to you, since you have the items already then mule it yourself by finding a host or using 2 computers, I don't see why you need an application to help you save time and stuff. Are you becoming lazy to find a host to help you?
     
  19. kabal

    kabal IncGamers Member

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    When did I start talking about whether or not duping runes was OK? My point was that if the original poster is going to try to cube an Enigma from low runes, an auto-cuber wouldn't help him at all. It might cut the time needed in half, but that just means he needs 10 years instead of 20. Your argument doesn't apply to mid-high runes because the time you spend cubing those is insignificant compared to the time you spend finding them.
     
  20. Disco-neck Ted

    Disco-neck Ted The Dark Library

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    In a way, having a rune cubing function wouldn't be any different from using ATMA to transfer items from one char to another. In the past, that took the .dll program (or MP games) and mule chars. No stashes. If you were one of those people with an excel spreadsheet that told you what item was on which mule, you could create an MP game, join with a mule, offload one item that you were looking for (say from mule Scepters_Two) exit the game, bring in another mule that had another item you were twinking to a new char and repeat the process. It took forever, and god help you if you weren't the spreadsheet type.

    ATMA saves time in all sorts of ways. So having the cube active in ATMA such that runes and gems from stash could be dragged over and transmuted with the press of a button would be handy, and seems on a par with the other functions of ATMA. But having ATMA actually do the cubing for you is very damned close to botting and having a program play the game for you, or play a part of the game that you find tedious and boring.

    I think that at one time Hakai had in mind to have the transmute function enabled, but don't know if he ever intended to go beyond that and have the program auto-compile your runes and gems for you. Whlie convenient, that just strikes me as wrong.
     

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