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Assassin Question

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by chickenhed, May 26, 2005.

  1. chickenhed

    chickenhed Diabloii.Net Member

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    Assassin Question

    I posted this on the assassin boards. The reason I am posting here as well is that there are just so many knowledgable assassin guru's that hang out here, and I was hoping to tap their brains as well :)

    I want to make a pretty standard venom, SM build. But I cant decide whether to use DC or DT. See I cant see ANY advantages to DC over Dtalon. Dtalon doest require any points into claw mastery, doesnt care how much damage your weapon is as long as it has good mods, and does 4-5 kicks in an extremely short span of time. I honestly WANT to do DC, but is there any practical reason to take it over Dtalon? I guess the only reason I can think of is, with CM, you can get your critical strikes up there. But that just doesnt seem worth it to me. Any advice?
     
  2. Nightfish

    Nightfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    DC doesn't require claw mastery either. The AR bonus from the skill is pretty good, too. I'm gonna go for a similar build (though I'll go hybrid as usual) for my septuple sept:

    20 DC
    20 Venom
    20 LS
    20 DS
    1 CoS & prereqs
     
  3. chickenhed

    chickenhed Diabloii.Net Member

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    but with your setup there, why wouldnt you take Dtalon? wouldnt it make more sense?
     
  4. Nightfish

    Nightfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    Dunno. Frankly I don't really care since I'll make a kicker as well later on. Going for dual shadow killers, might merc and a decent amount of CB. Damage is probably going to be better than with kicks unless I happen to find good boots. But those would require more str.
     
  5. chickenhed

    chickenhed Diabloii.Net Member

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    So you are saying that you are going DC just cause you can? :) Honestly just trying to understand is all. Im racking my brain trying to think of a practical advantage DC has over DT.
     
  6. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    Well if your untwinked, its easier to find high damage claws than it is high damage boots, and the good kicking boots mostly have high str reqs, wheras you can wear the claws with very low reqs, so more can be spent in vit and dex to make you safer.
     
  7. Quickdeath

    Quickdeath Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'll take a shot at answering, though it may not be a compelling case. DTalon is a popular skill

    1. First with DC, you're obviously committed to two claws. Claws are a rich source of +skill mods, allowing you to build certain critical skills up to high levels.

    2. You can also use Weapon Block with DC -even one or two points invested in this (combined with +skills) gives you a decent continuous chance of blocking elemental and physical attacks -even when running. Some advantages vs 1-h weapon and Shield. Weapon block is even capable of blocking Baal's cold-based attack that pushes characters away!

    3. If you combine DC with a charge-up skill like tiger strike or an elemental charge-up it will be more satisfactory than a high slvl DTalon - because the multiple DT kicks will be slowing down the number of charge-up cycles you can do. Only the first DTalon kick does the discharge, the others are all normal kicks.

    4. With DTalon, your choice of boot will be driven by damage rating of the boot and not necessarily by the mods on the boot. The myrmidon greaves that might be optimum for DTalon may lack other good mods you would otherwise want and will drive you to more investment in strength than you might otherwise prefer.

    5. Claws on an assassin are pretty fast -particularly with some BOS. That first kick on Dtalon will be slower than a claw attack - although a five kick Dtalon will indeed get off more attacks per second than DC.

    6. AR. DTalon will pose some AR problems whereas a DC attack has a good AR multiplier and gets an AR boost from CM. Kicking with a 60% chance to hit -combined with a monsters' 50% blocking rate in Hell -will really slow down your killing speed. This is solvable, of course, by using other equipment mods and charms to boost AR - but its all a trade-off.

    7. One last point is that DTalon's followup kicks are so fast that Venom doesn't have a long enough interval between kicks to deliver all its damage. Venom delivers its damage over 10 frames - thus you will deliver the same amount of Venom poison damage whether you're hitting and connecting every four frames or every ten frames -in both cases Venom damage will be continuous.
     
  8. NSXdreamer

    NSXdreamer Diabloii.Net Member

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    Actually it's the other way around. Class specific items are harder to come by, that put claw more rare than boots. Second, you don't care what mod the boots has, a shadow dancer has the same damage as a cracked myrmidon boots, not the case for claws.
     
  9. NSXdreamer

    NSXdreamer Diabloii.Net Member

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    WB dosen't work while you are moving, period, be it running or walking

    I believe there is also the bug that if the first kick in a series miss, all following kick will receive the benefit of charge, not sure what charges work with it.
     
  10. JihadJesus

    JihadJesus Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'm not sure about this; katars drop at higher rates than other class specifics, although not as high as normal base items I don't think. Also, I have multiples of most of the unique katars, as well as 4 or 5 katars with good (>250) ED, and have yet to see even a rare pare of myrmidon greaves. I think in total I've only seen 1 or 2 pairs of plain or magical myrmidons. Maybe I just have weird luck...
     
  11. jiansonz

    jiansonz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Myrmidon Greaves can be bought, but not before act 3 Hell (Asheara is your first stop). Buying a magical pair from Asheara, then crafting them (Safety Boots recipe) is probably a good idea.

    Same thing can be done with some other elite boot types. Mirrored Boots are available in act 2 Hell (Fara) and their crafted recipe (Blood) is better. All three pre-set abilities are good: +life, life steal and life replenishing. Great potential here.
     
  12. JihadJesus

    JihadJesus Diabloii.Net Member

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    Just out of curiosity, how vital do you experienced assasin players find DR to be on this kind of character? Ive decided to start one up, and I'm not sure if I should shoot for around 25% DR or just scrap it and get my CB and Resists higher. My impression was that with weapon block diverting ~50% of all elemental attacks while in combat resists become less important than on most melee characters who can't block those attacks, but that could be misguided.
     
  13. PyroStock

    PyroStock Diabloii.Net Member

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    My L80 HC Assassin had over 1300life (higher if BO was still on) with 75%block and died from only physical damage. And yes, she was using her crowd control skills and had the freeze in PhoenixStrike too. I have a new L38 now out to avenge her death.

    If you're SC you can probably scrap it, since 1-2 deaths before you complete the game isn't that bad. If you're HC I wouldn't since all takes in 1 lucky hit.
     
  14. HBeachBabe

    HBeachBabe Diabloii.Net Member

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    keep in mind that Fade also offers a hidden bonus of 1% DR per hard point spent

    katars drop at 2/3 the rate of other items unlike other class-specifics which drop at 1/3 rate
     
  15. Nightfish

    Nightfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    Not very necessary. Daevana had 0% PDR and used a Ribcracker - so no weapon block either. Still got to guardian without major issues. Still you can always equip a shaftstop if it makes you feel better. Personally I don't think I need a lot of DR or Resis if I have CoS.
     
  16. PyroStock

    PyroStock Diabloii.Net Member

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    I wish I could have used CoS, but despite it's benefits the people I played with hated it.
     
  17. chickenhed

    chickenhed Diabloii.Net Member

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    So... to my original question :)

    When it comes right down to it, guys. What skill is better used with venom? Dtalon, or Dragon claw? Will Dtalon apply even the 0.4 duration venom TOO quickly?
     
  18. JihadJesus

    JihadJesus Diabloii.Net Member

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    I have noticed that CoS makes the game...well, it's like a boxing match against a blind kid. Bu tI've never used it in Hell and wasn't sure if the protection would hold out, but I should have remembered your Ribcracker adventures. Alright then, I won't worry much about DR. Now I just have to decide on weapons...
     
  19. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    CoS is highly recommended for all sorcs, especially MA's. ignore it at your own risk. :thumbsup:
    As to DC or DT, it depends what you want. DC is probably more versitile and works well with other skill (weapon block, claw mastery) and will still give near constant venom. If you want very high phys damage, or exceptionally quick attacking, go DT.
     
  20. Nightfish

    Nightfish Diabloii.Net Member

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    While some might say you should have said "sins" and not "sorcs", me and darksight helm stand by what you said. ;)
     

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