Armor/Defense System in D3

[craezyjim]

Armor/Defense System in D3

Has there been any indication of how defense from armor will work in D3? Will it work as it did in previous Diablo games where it reduces the chance of monsters to hit you? Or will there be something new?

It is curious that the chance to hit or attack rating stats are not visible on any items or skills so far released (at least last I checked). This makes me think the combat system regarding chance to hit and defense has changed. Perhaps the system is such that defense rating acts to mitigate damage. Attacks always hit, but the amount they hit for is reduced by armor value (essentially, armor = physical damage resistance).

What are the implications of a system like this? In D2 and D1, there were chances for large spikes of damage if multiple monsters suddenly connected. However, I'm not sure that mechanic was inherently a good one. Damage always came in spikes, instead of as a slow drain on your health pool. Spiky damage does not seem to fit well with health globes either...though it does with potions.

Does anyone know how the defense stats will work in D3? Are there drawbacks to changing defense effectively to be a resistance value against physical damage?

 

[BigKevSexyMan]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

There could be a combination of typical defense and diablo defense. Maybe instead of chance to avoid damage entirely, you could do a chance to reduce damage, with defense reducing damage by 0 to 100 percent.

 

[Raging_Zealot]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

It is mostly speculation on our part at this point. I'd like to see them implement something similar to Mythos (and I'm sure other games) where you always hit, but the equivalent to a "miss" would be a "glancing blow" where you do significantly less than usual damage. Makes more sense that you perhaps occasionally (or with less skill/dexterity/whatever) make poor hits, but the idea of swinging your weapon and completely missing a demon standing in front of you is a bit silly (yes I know Diablo is not and should not be real life, but c'mon).

Along with that, since Defense would no longer be soley used in calculating chance to hit, I'd like to see some scheme setup where higher defense resulted in less damage taken on a fairly linear scale, adjusted however they feel necessary for balancing issues.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere the emphasis this time will be on damage reduction and less on chance to hit. This much is going to replace the infamous immunities from D2. But I'm pretty sure Defense will also be a target.

 

[TheWhiz]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

I think the system in D2 worked fairly well; however I do think that defense should have some influence on the amount of physical damaged reduced. It's just the idea that the more armor you are wearing, the less damage you should take if someone happens to hit you.

Something they may try and do is have defense and chance to dodge mutually exclusive stats. I'd personally like to see happen because if you think of a heavy-armored unit, you'd think that he is likely to not dodge the blow, but rather accept less damage. Assuming the stat system follows exactly like it did in D2, maybe strength influences defense and dexterity affects your dodge.

 

[craezyjim]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

"Something they may try and do is have defense and chance to dodge mutually exclusive stats. I'd personally like to see happen because if you think of a heavy-armored unit, you'd think that he is likely to not dodge the blow, but rather accept less damage. Assuming the stat system follows exactly like it did in D2, maybe strength influences defense and dexterity affects your dodge."

I agree. I think that D3 would benefit from having different character classes have different mitigation skills. For example, the barbarian would focus on skills that increase the raw amount of armor. The barbarian is big and beefy - he doesn't dodge, but the hits he takes are further reduced in value.

The wizard and/or witch doctor should have skills that focus on outright damage avoidance -- like dodging attacks. Every class at this point can where every piece of armor. It doesn't make much sense that a wizard takes roughly the same damage per attack relative to the barbarian. The mirror image or stoneskin skills could be used to outright avoid damage. But once the magic shields falls, the wizard takes comparatively more damage than the barbarian.

In D2, changes like this would make sense. The amazon for instance takes full damage when hit, but relies on dodging or otherwise avoiding blows instead of absorbing them (i.e. paladin defiance, barbarian shout/iron skin).

A more complex defense mechanic could add greater differentiation between character classes. There could be another melee class that focused more on dodge, finesse and active defense skills like the amazon, with the barbarian being the less subtle tank.

 

[stillman]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

I think Blizzard has been tight-lipped about def, so we know almost nothing about how it will work.

Which is a sad, because I'd rather have them release a hint about def and other game mechanics than a new monster. "Hey fans, did you know there will be NEW MONSTERS in the game?!" Yes. We figgured. "Well here is a monster for you to look at! Are you happy we gave you this wonderful glimps of d3 content?!"

 

[Dimmu]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

There was no problem with the d2 def system inherently, the problem was that DR% (damage reduction) items were so few that it didn't function the way it should have.
I think DR should just work like an elemental resistance and all armors should have an automatic "damage reduced by X%" value. Like with a D2 reference you would have plain quilted armor that has an inherent 3% DR, but once you get to elites like say...kraken shell you would get something like 45% DR. Your DR would be nerfed in nightmare and hell just like resistances so it wouldn't be so outrageously easy to have max DR since you'd be in hell by the time you can even use these armors.
Now if you raise the DR cap to 75% just like elemental resistance and roughly even out the amount of damage everything does (or average damage in the case of lightning or poison or whatever) you have an even playing field that's easy to manage and understand.
The defence hit or miss system doesn't need to be changed really, just tweaked so that you have more sensible numbers to deal with, rather than a barb having 120 thousand defence and a sorceress having 1.7k defence, you'd have a barb with maybe a not-so-high defence score but massive DR, and a wizard with lower DR since won't be wearing the equivelant of sacred armor and she'd have higher defense. Obviously with a system like this, you'd want to change "defense" to "dodge" or something, but that's irrelevant.

 

[paperkut]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

Obviously this is not a new idea, but i am hoping for a sort of tradeoff system with the armors. Something along the lines of the bigger and bulkier the armor the more defense, but maybe less mobility (probably a bad idea) or less magical properties. Light armor may have more magical properties or, like many have been talking about, more of a chance to dodge completely. I just think it'd be cool to see a guy wearing light armor and knowing he's going to play evasive or avoid getting hit whereas a big bulky looking armored dude you known is going to be tanking all kinds of damage.

 

[stillman]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

Dimmu, but wouldn't pretty much everyone strive to max out the physical resistance...and maybe even consider any chr worthless if they don't max it? It seems too generous to have it count like a resistance. I like the concept nonetheless. I might work if the max was very low and items hard to come by.

It seems everything in d2 was very complex and required reading up info on websites....except armor. Armor was simple. Hit or miss. Maybe they need to do all kinds of crazy new things with armor. I'd welcome it. When you think about it, armor would affect all kinds of things. For example, wouldn't full plate protect you a bit from fire compared to your bare skin? Well in d2 full plate doesn't help you at all against fire. A firebolt hitting your bare chest is the same as a firebolt hitting a metal covering over your whole body.

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

Obviously this is not a new idea, but i am hoping for a sort of tradeoff system with the armors. Something along the lines of the bigger and bulkier the armor the more defense, but maybe less mobility (probably a bad idea) or less magical properties. Light armor may have more magical properties or, like many have been talking about, more of a chance to dodge completely. I just think it'd be cool to see a guy wearing light armor and knowing he's going to play evasive or avoid getting hit whereas a big bulky looking armored dude you known is going to be tanking all kinds of damage.

The heavier armors in D2 slowed you down, too. It just wasn't really significant, nor important (don't run, just shoot).

 

[GuardianHadriel]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

damagereducing armor is the best sort of armor type imo. Works like in Wc3 :yes:

 

[5zigen]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

The system will be D2 inverted. Ala WoW (Sorry wow haters, it works well).

That is, armor will increase damage reduction, probably on a logarithmic curve so that there's no cap, but there is diminishing returns, but the returns diminish at a rate such that additional armor value will always be effective because while the actual DR will reduce with the more armor you have, but the time to live while taking damage will always be linear. This will balance armor greatly. (there might be a cap, like there is in WoW but it likely won't be achievable in general)

Like there was DR on armor in D2, there will likely be Dodge / Parry on armors in D3 (much like in WoW) these will be the avoidance on armors.

It's just so much more an elegant system, plus it makes (slightly) more sense than having armor as a pure avoidance system.

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

The system will be D2 inverted. Ala WoW (Sorry wow haters, it works well).

That is, armor will increase damage reduction, probably on a logarithmic curve so that there's no cap, but there is diminishing returns, but the returns diminish at a rate such that additional armor value will always be effective because while the actual DR will reduce with the more armor you have, but the time to live while taking damage will always be linear. This will balance armor greatly. (there might be a cap, like there is in WoW but it likely won't be achievable in general)

Like there was DR on armor in D2, there will likely be Dodge / Parry on armors in D3 (much like in WoW) these will be the avoidance on armors.

It's just so much more an elegant system, plus it makes (slightly) more sense than having armor as a pure avoidance system.

Imo, dodge on armor doesn't make sense any way, unless it's a magical modifier. Surely you would be able to dodge much better without any armor at all, rather than better with a pack of leather on your body?

 

[Puckineh]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

I think its quite simple armor adds to defense which equals damage reduction

shields and some weapons add to blocking which equals damage avoidance

dodge could be something that you start with but lose as heavier armor is added or a skill for some classes or just a magic modifier

 

[Synchrotron]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

I aways hated the diablo attack rating system, just because you have a 40k defense char doesn't mean you will evade more than having just 1k defense. Its more likely for you to be hit when you are using a 100kg armor than using pajamas.

I'm not against the attack rating system, I just think its better to separate AR from Defense.

A good system IMO, would be one that your AR is based on the difference betwen your level and the enemy's level (some itens that raise your AR could be avaiable of course) and defense would interfere just on physical damage reduction.

 

[PahaLukki]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

I think its quite simple armor adds to defense which equals damage reduction

shields and some weapons add to blocking which equals damage avoidance

dodge could be something that you start with but lose as heavier armor is added or a skill for some classes or just a magic modifier

I like this idea on dodge. Maybe leather armor could have only minor reduction while plate would have slightly larger reduction to the ability to dodge. Though plate mail are mentioned being suprisingly non-cumbersome in some sites...

But overall, considering if the game was headed for a real dark and gothic role play (and not this wowish rainbow stuff), I would choose a far more complex modeling of armor. Padded, leather, chain, splint, ring and plate should all have a characteristic ability to reduce the damage of certain types of physical and elemental attacks, but also a chance to defend fully against such attacks.

For example. You are wearing thick padded armor and the enemy uses fire damage. Because you are wearing insulating armor, the fire damage is reduced by 20%.. or alternatively there is a specific modifier that calculates the damage reduction from the armors defense. If the enemy uses piercing attack, no damage is reduced as it goes right through. The chance for a piercing attack to go through, e.g. the defense of a padded armor would be low. The padded armor would reduce blunt and slashing damage while also having a chance to defend fully against blunt and mildly against slash. This could be for example a certain modifier times the base defense of the armor. So for pierce you would have 0.05*defense, for blunt 0.95*defense and 0.50*defense for slash. Or less extreme differentation.

For plate mail the ability to deflect and thus defend fully against arrows and other piercing attacks would be high, but once a piercing attack would go through (come at the right angle to the plate) very little damage would be reduced as the arrows pierce plate rather brutally. Slashing damage would be greatly reduced, but having a mediocre chance to defend against it fully. Perhaps blunt woul be most devastating against plate, being both unable to defend against it fully but also absorbing only a small amount of the damage.

Well something like that.. Electric, fire and cold damage against plate mail, anyone?

 

[Fox VII]

Re: Armor/Defense System in D3

Damage Resistance and Conjured Armor are in the same tree for the wizard. Since one deals with blocking and the other armor, I'd say it's fairly safe to assume that they have different function now.