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Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by lumpor, May 25, 2008.

  1. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    I'm a level 35 poisonmancer who just got revives and I'm in the throne of destruction. This is the first time I've come this far (I usually get tired of my characters much earlier), and I'm fighting the fifth wave. How do I do it? I cast a lvl 4 lower resist on them, followed by a lvl 4 poison nova. This normally takes away half the life from most monsters (usually it kills them), but the minions destruction don't even budge! It takes away like 5% of their life, and then they regenerate it back in seconds. As if achmel the cursed wasn't hard enough (he's poison immune). What should i do? I have about 12 poison dagger, 3 poison explosion and 1 poison nova (not including +skills), 1 in all curses except the left tree, and 1 in all summoning skills except fire golem and skeleton mastery. My gear is gravenspine, infernostride, sanders gloves, wormskull and some other stuff (I'm not twinked). All my stat points have gone to vitality. The only solution I can think of is going to the river of flame and revive some urdars. What is it that makes those stunning creatures so good anyway? I'm a bit deperate. Please reply, thanks
     
  2. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    You've spread the skills out rather a lot. Your Nova could have done more damage at this point in time. This lack of damage is really hurting. Also why would they be regenerating? Poison stops regen.

    Still if you Revive some Urdars you'll have high life minions who are equipped with CB. It is that property that makes them damaging. Depending on how many you can summon these could carry you past this wave.
     
  3. Vae Victus

    Vae Victus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    Urdars are good because they have Crushing Blow, which deals a nice chunk of physical damage. (Also because they stun.)

    Forgive me for saying, but I get the impression that this is one of your first characters? (Maybe the third or fourth character??)

    If you're completely desperate, you can just lure them down to the opposite end of the floor (the whole way back to where you would go down to the 3rd floor of the Worldstone Keep). I don't know if this is a Single Player thing only or not, but for me, that can often "trick" Baal into thinking they're dead. Or, if you're playing online, you could just party with other people and fight together.

    In any case, most people use Baal runs for the massive experience points to level up a few times. So you could just keep killing the first 4 waves and then starting a new game to try to level up to around level 45 or so, and then just pump your Poison Nova until you can kill him yourself.
     
  4. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    Spread out my skill points? I've gotten lower resist, revive and rest into synergies. But still, even if it did twice the damage, I would have no chance. They regenerate after the nova timer has ended, which is only 2 seconds. And I can't stand still and spam nova, they'd stunlock me in seconds. I tried using urdars, but for some reason they dissapeared if i went too far away from them. I'm sure it hadn't gone 3 minutes since I revived them. And actually, this is like my 30th character or something. But it's the fifth one to come to act 3 and the second one to come to act 5 and the second one to become lvl 30 and the first one that has freed Anya. And how can I lvl up 10 levels just to defeat a boss? I don't understand how everyone gets to like lvl 70 in a few days. I've played this character for more than a week. Anyway I refuse to powerlevel. I could try buying a "white" wand, but it's probably not easy find someone who's selling it.

    Ok, now I completed it. I actually managed to defeat 4 minions. I let them hit me until the blaze from my infernostride was cast, and then I cast lower resist, and let them bathe in the fire. Lister and another minion were lured away and just as the guy before me said Baal thought that they were dead. I them met baal and died. Seriously, there was no time for offence at all. He bombards with attacks everywhere and pushes me back. I only managed to get 1 nova in, so even if I had distributed my skills better it wouldn't have made any difference, since I don't have enough chances to use my nova anyway. Geeze, this really is the hardest part in the whole game. The ancients were nothing compared to this.

    Is it just that I suck at controlling my character?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2008
  5. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    Well, yeah. You've got a point in almost every skill even before you got a semi-decent main attack.


    Revives don't have the teleport to your location skill. That is why herding them without Teleport is a pain in the neck.


    If you play all the areas on /players 8 you can easily get to 40 before getting to Baal. That should make things a whole lot easier.



    What kind of Merc are you using? How does he hold up? Between a Golem slowing and distracting Baal and a curse like Decrep the Merc should be able to get a few pokes in with CB before you need to start babysitting him.



     
  6. zhadoom

    zhadoom IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    While poison is active on them, they dont regenerate life.
    Use decripify... it doesn't help your poison nova, but for any tough enemy (Like baals minions, baal, diablo...) decripify is the way to go. It slows theire attack speed by 50% AND thire damage by 50%... that means theire overall damage per second is reduced by 75%. This way your merc / golem / revives will have it much easier to tank them.

    With tanking pets / mercs at front, keep chain casting nova (every second or so) from a save spot... make sure they are poisoned all the time, to prevent life regeneration (be sure to have enought mana pots in your belt).

    Once one of the minions die, slap in an amplified damage, corpse explode all corpses and recast decripify after. With decrepify on the minions u can keep running away from them and cast nova on your trails, even without any pet / merc.

    As a general advice: Put more points into poison nova. Points here would help you much more than anywhere else at early levels. For example: summon resist, golem mastery are not that important (on nightmare, hell they become more important). Also, revives, skeletons, mages and even lower resist (immunes are rare on normal) are not as important as poison nova damage.
     
  7. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    Ok, I'll skip skeleton mastery for now and pump nova to at least lvl 5 before I add to skeleton mastery (and then max nova). I don't have a merc. I thought mercs before nightmare were quite useless, so I quitted using them. But I think I'll take an act 2 defensive merc now and train him a bit and give him good gear. I actually succeeded in reviving some urdars and taking them to the minions, but the crushing blow never kicked in, even though they hit the enemies many times. My golem always dies almost instantly, so the only time I summon him is in town, or when I'm using a mana potion and get some free mana. And he also annoys me when I want to lure monsters to a specific place, but the monsters attack him instead. But I'll try that too. I tried using decreptify, but as I said my golem can't tank anything and I don't have a merc so it didn't go that well. I haven't learned timing my novas that well yet so it's hard for me to recast it at the exact right moment. I can try poison dagger with my jade tan do though (and blackbogs sharp in 3 levels).
     
  8. Vae Victus

    Vae Victus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    Poison Dagger and Poison Explosion are basically useless skills to use at any point in the game. Even points in Skeleton Mage are more useful, and NO ONE should be pumping Skeleton Mage unless they have a specific build in mind (Mercenary with a Conviction Aura, for instance).

    Also, it's not the end of the world or anything (translation: don't delete your character just yet and start over), but Revive is a skill with 2 gameplans in mind: 1) just have 1 or 2 points in revive (+ equipment skills) solely to use them as meatshields/crowd control; or 2) have a couple of points in them (+ equipment skills) for telestomping bosses (teleporting with Enigma armor right on top of your enemies) with specific revived creatures (Urdars being the usual one). You shouldn't expect them to deal out a lot of punishment. Revives just don't have the killing power of Skeleton Warriors. So usually, a poison-mancer would either put one point and no more, not put any points into the Summoning Tree at all (save Clay Golem), or just have a White Wand with Revive autoskills.

    Anyway, yes, a Defense merc is very helpful for tanking. And I wouldn't put any points anywhere else for the next levels until Poison Nova is at 20. Just my suggestions though, take them for what you will.
     
  9. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    Well, poison dagger and poison explosion are synergies to poison nova, so there's no point in not putting points into them before I get to lvl 30. And by the way, saying they are useless is wrong.
    1. They do more total damage than poison nova. A guy said he killed diablo with 1 poison explosion. Poison nova can't accomplish that.
    2. They cost less mana
    3. And even though I agree poison nova is much better, they are still great before you get to lvl 30. How did you get to lvl 30 without using poison dagger/poison explosion? Level 1 teeth? Before i got nova I had poison dagger on left-click and poison explosion on right-click, and I easily beat diablo with that combo.

    And also, I don't understand which mistake i've made. I've only put 1 point into revive, and you said that many poison necros can do that. I'll use them as meat shields with scaling defence, as well as use urdars/maulers against bosses. And I will only put points into nova from now on. I already have 4 hard points there now. and by the way, I've defeated baal. Actually, I didn't defeat him, a lvl 84 "helped" me. I've heard that the first time you defeat a boss, you get better items, but if someone in your party already has defeated that boss, it doesn't count. If I kill him myself later, will I get extra good drops as if it's the first time I killed him?
     
  10. NumtyDoo

    NumtyDoo IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    get as many revives as you can, draw lister and gang out of room so you and your summons do not get decreped by baal. It is often possible to separate listers group so you can fight just a couple at a time. Clay golem and decrep should slow them to a crawl. If you can, make a couple cold and poison mages (with your +skills you should be able to make at least a few). The mages damage will suck, but cold mages will slow the group down even further, and the poison mages will stop regen for several minutes.
     
  11. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    No, you won't get better drops.

    Getting 1 in revive early and getting too many curses is bad for your nova damage. While you will eventually need them, there is no reason to get them ASAP. Though......, I think the main problem is with the build itself. A poison build is harder to get started on the low lvls, especially if it is not a summon/poison hybrid. It doesn't matter much now that you have him killed. By the time you hit NM Andarial, you will have enough poison damage, hopefully.

    For now, stick 1 point into skele mastery (no more), and max nova ASAP.



     
  12. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    Ok, thanks for all the advice. i've come to the stony field now, and I'm doing well. Still, I think getting lower resist was good. Otherwise I'd do almost no damage to undead. I think I'll wait with putting a point into skeleton mastery. It's so hard deciding on marrows or rare boots. if I choose marrows I won't need to put a point into skeleton mastery.
     
  13. FattyMcGee

    FattyMcGee IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    You have marrowwalks but this is the first time you've been past normal? If you do not have them yet and are just planning to get them, my advice is to ditch that plan and concentrate on what you have now.

    As others have said before, it's not that all is lost but your character could have been built much more efficiently up to this point. In general, when making a character build in Diablo it is best for the long-game if you concentrate on only one or two main attacks (and their synergies) and only put extra skill points in other skills if you really need them.

    If you are having difficulty with building characters that successfully get through nightmare and hell mode, I would suggest taking a look at the guides stickied at the top of this forum and the other character class forums. Don't look at the item suggestions - those are just for people who have the best of the best and trade a lot. DO look at the skill point layouts for each of the builds, because that is where you can get your ideas for building an efficient character that will take you through norm, nm, and hell.

    Best of luck,

    -f



     
  14. lumpor

    lumpor IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    Are marrows that hard to get? I've gotten verdungos and ravenfrost and lots of other stuff for free so I thought I could get marrows with some trading. If I concentrate on what I hae now, I'll probably put too many points in str and dex and have less vit than I could have had. And I have only concentrated on poison nova. I just got revives and lower resist and then focused only on poison nova. All the guides say that revives and lower resist are good to have (I have read lots of guides, even googled when I thought the guides here weren't enough). The guides say that I should get lower resist and some say I should get revives too. The initial poisonmancer build only takes 60 points anyway, so I'll have some points left over. Also, it doesn't seem that hard to get the right gear. I've already got trangs gloves for free, and I bought trangs shield for a small amount of pgems. Even though they're nothing compared to marrows, I'll still just do pit runs until I've gotten some good drops. I don't understand why people say I haven't concentrated on nova, I just got two skills that would help me and the rest into nova. The guides didn't say which order I should get them, and it still doesn't make my char broken, since I can put more points in nova later. It only makes the beginning a bit slower. And lower resist DOES help me.
     
  15. AnimeCraze

    AnimeCraze IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    Marrow isn't TOO bad, in terms of difficulty to get. You can probably get it with the dungos.
     
  16. Alecz

    Alecz IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    I just want to point out that you could also revive the Venom Lords just before the Minions (you have to be fast though, cause their bodies tend to explode after you kill them). Also there should be some frenzytaurs in there...:smiley: Revive those before u get to the Venom Lords. The frenzytaurs WILL keep up with you, they don't get lost (like zombies for exampla :grin:)

    If you use revives, you are much better with decrepify than lower resist. Poison mages have longer poison duration, so re-roll them to get only poison/cold. (Use unsummon, so you don't replace the useful ones).

    I made a necro but focused on the bone spear/spirit. I got 1 pt in each curse, since I find them all useful for certain occasions.

    I had no problem killing the minions and baal with about 4-5 Venom Lords, Decrepify, and Bone Spirit. Diablo was slained by Venom Lords in the same way!

    And you have a gravespine (+2 necro skill, right), so you can have 3 revives with even 1 point in them!.
     
  17. nerdly

    nerdly IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    I don't mean to pick hairs, but it sounds like you are twinked a bit by using traded and/or gear given to you by higher level characters.

    But I agree, powerleveling sucks...just wish I wasn't so damn good at it. :coffee:


     
  18. Dirkw

    Dirkw IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    How can one be good at that? It's methodical child's play.
     
  19. nerdly

    nerdly IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    What? You can't be good at being childish? :crazyeyes:


     
  20. Samohtnnam

    Samohtnnam IncGamers Member

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    Re: Argh! How do I beat lister and his pack?

    What is the apprehension against power leveling? The hardest part to leveling is level 1-20, and even that can be softened by grouping. I can get from level 1 to 89 in 12 hours. I've done it so many times it makes me wonder why I ever tried to level solo.

    Power leveling (erm secret revealed lol):

    - From level 1 to 14 do Trist runs. You see them all the time, so join in on one.

    - From level 14 to 19 or 20 do Tomb runs. Again, you see them all the time.

    - At this point you want a rush to at least the Ancient waypoint (past Act 4). Many high level characters make a game called "free rush" to help lower levels. If you can't find these then make a game called "help rush me" or "rush for 4rg".

    - After rushed through normal to Ancient waypoint: Do cow runs from level 19 or 20 to 24. You see these all the time.

    - Next, make a game called "Help Ancients" or join a game with this title (they do appear more frequently than you may think).

    - From level 25 (Ancients levels you to 25) do Baal runs until level 40.

    - From level 40 you'll be in nightmare difficulty. Make a game called "4rg 4 rush" or join the many games you see like this. Do Baal runs after being rushed through nightmare until level 70 to 75.

    - From level 70 to 75 you'll be in hell difficulty. Now is the time to go through the game solo or do like you did in the normal and nightmare difficulties for a rush. Do Baal runs until you are so bored (usually until level 89 to 90 for me) you want to give up Diablo 2 (haha ya right?).


    If you are one of those players who just likes to play in normal difficulty then follow all the advice the others have posted. Choose a build that is fun to solo with also, such as a Smiting pally or Whirlwind/Frenzy barb. But, I do suggest you find some friends and learn to use "/f add *<insert name>" and "/f list" on b.net to talk and locate friends. Diablo 2 is so much more fun with friends. There is a whole new level of fun (or sadness) in Hell difficulty as well as getting keys from mini ubers, killing the Uber three, and maybe finding the Diablo Clone (if your extremely lucky, or follow the guide posted in these forums somewhere on Diablo Clone hunting). Even playing in nightmare ups your chances of finding fun items.

    Trying to solo level, without group help, with a poisonmancer will only bring you frustration until you hit past level 45 (and once in nightmare and hell you will need some good gear to solo these difficulties). If you are still drawn to solo leveling, then go try hardcore mode. That's a real adrenaline rush.
     

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