Are we doing enough to protect our children?

kobold

Banned
Are we doing enough to protect our children?

Every time there is a news story about some abuse (physical, etc.) of a child, I find it particularly disturbing. I can not for the life of me understand the mindset required to intentionally cause harm to a little one.

I have thought before that the ability/right to have children should be granted, not inherent. Thus if you do not have the mental capacity/stability or financial means to support a child (I know that other factors should perhaps be considered), then you would not be allowed to have a child. Period.

I am on the fence about this now, as there are good parents out there that sacrifice a lot of themselves in order to provide everything their child needs. By setting arbitrary standards, people that should be able to have children may be excluded from the process.

Would the rights of the innocent child to have a safe secure environment outweigh a parents desire to have a child? Should society as a whole expect to "lose" x% of children to ignorant bastards that should never have been allowed to reproduce in the first place?

To put this in a bit of context, there is a story in the news here about a 4 month old girl that has wound up in the hospital under "suspicious" conditions two times in under a month. The first was for broken ribs, the second for a gash across her forehead, to the bone, from one temple almost to the other. In addition to the gash, she had a mark on her leg that appeared to be a bite mark. The parents in this case have a bit of a checkered past, in that the mother had two children permanently removed from her care in a different province, while the father had lost a child to shaken baby syndrome.

This case makes me shake my head. I do not want to jump to conclusions, as there may (to my utter surprise) be a logical explanation for her injuries. I can't help but think that there has to be a better way.
 

Lord Nyax

Banned
I read a book once. It was a good book. It was a fictional account of what the future would be like. People without a High School education, and people with any type of violent criminal past, were castrated. Seems like a good idea to me...

There are background checks for people trying to adopt, right? Just extend those to people trying to have kids.
 
You'll never be allowed to censor my body. Try to and I'll probably rise up and try to kill you.

There are some people out there that shouldn't be parents, but how would you limit them? Castration only effects males. Pills don't have to be taken. Having the state take the children only gives them less to think about and puts a strain on tax payers. Not to mention the ability for someone to become smarter or earn more money, so no permanent solution is fair.


Believe me, I really like the idea of telling certain people they can't have kids based on their ability to raise a child, but there are some things that cannot be done.
 

Isolde212

Banned
In a perfect world we would all be good parents, all the children would want for nothing, no one would ever be inpoverished or abused. The cycle of violence would not exist. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world.
I do believe that some people should never have been parents however, I do believe that their parents shouldn't have been parents either. The cycle of abuse repeats itself so many times that you have no idea where to start placing the blame.
I do not believe in censoring the right as to who can and can not procreate. In my opinion, no one has the right to tell anyone what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. I have limited faith in the justice department to bring those who are hurtful and abusive to justice but I know that there is no other way. If the world can't get off it's *** and start reeducating and rehabilitating every individual who has the potential to do harm in this world then this will be our reality forever.

In the end it comes down to, I can only do so much to help others, society can only do so much to prevent it and in the end tragically so many slip through the cracks. I have to believe that in the end the "big" plan will works itself out and God (or whoever) will have his vengence.
 

Ariadne

Diabloii.Net Member
You'd never stop all the child abuse, no matter what you do. You'll never stop the reigns of terror that do not involve any physical violence, but which do just as much damage. :embarassed: It wouldn't help. Deciding where to draw the line would be too hard.
 

Merick

Diabloii.Net Member
It's hard to tell anyone they can't have children without serious civil rights issues. What's next? No one with x percent chance of alzhimer's? No one below y IQ? The older a woman is when she becomes pregnant, the more likely her baby will be retarded, how old is still acceptible?
 

Lord Nyax

Banned
We can all agree that any previously convicted felon with a history of violence shouldn't be allowed to have kids at any time, right? Because if we can't even agree on that then I'm not going to try to move forth onto the other examples.
 

RevenantsKnight

Diabloii.Net Member
I have thought before that the ability/right to have children should be granted, not inherent. Thus if you do not have the mental capacity/stability or financial means to support a child (I know that other factors should perhaps be considered), then you would not be allowed to have a child. Period.
In theory, I have to agree that this sounds nice, because stories of child abuse are really rough things to hear about. I've stopped reading past the headlines of some stories since I don't want to know what the details are.

In practice, though, this scares the living daylights out of me. Any program like this will have to be partially (if not entirely) enforced by political means, which means that the standards for reproduction may become a political football. Although I trust politicians to do some things right, this is not one of those things, and even if I did, the consequences of them screwing this up are too great to be worth the risk, in my opinion.

Also, as you've indicated above, this system would likely take into account the environment into which the child would be born (i.e. the parents' financial situation, criminal record, stuff like that.) The thing is, by declaring that certain environments are not adequate for child-rearing, you're making a judgment on what kinds of lives are worth living. Sure, there are some situations where most people would probably call them inadequate, but the fact of the matter is that there are kids who were born into those situations and managed to get out of them. The danger there is that could sound like you're implying that society as a whole would be better off without these people because it would also remove the others who started off in the same way and didn't end up as well.

Lord Nyax said:
We can all agree that any previously convicted felon with a history of violence shouldn't be allowed to have kids at any time, right? Because if we can't even agree on that then I'm not going to try to move forth onto the other examples.
I wouldn't agree with that as a blanket statement (see above.)



 

Lord Nyax

Banned
Gonna try one last time before giving up. I'll rephrase:
We can all agree that any previously convicted felon with a history of violence shouldn't be allowed to have kids without going through some type of background check (i.e. they can't just go out and have kids whenever), right?
 

bg1256

Diabloii.Net Member
When you find a parent who is deserving to be one, let me know.

What I mean is, no parent is perfect, and if someone pointed out all my parents' insufficiencies as a parent, maybe they'd end up getting their children taken away if these type of laws were passed. But I would never be for that. My parents were far from perfect, and in reality, I probably suffered from some minor verbal abuse, but my parents loved me and took care of me to the best of their abilities.


I hate child abuse, passionately, but not allowing people to have children may not be the answer. The only time I would ever consider being for that method would be if it pertained to sex-offenders.
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah, yeah. There are lots of people who shouldn't be allowed to have children, but who do you trust to decide who can and can't be a good parent?

It's a neat idea but it would never work. Plus it's getting into scary Big Brother territory.

Damnit, thanks to those shows that reference has lost all its dignity.
 

P2blr

Diabloii.Net Member
One of the things with restricting who can and who cannot have children is the arguement of if that person is never born then they can never cure a disease, but the flipside is that if they're never born they can not go out on a killing spree and murder half a city or whatever. You have to take the good with the bad, or realise that if you took out both the disease curer and mass-murderer, you can also take a person that has nothing to do with either and train them to become one... or the other.


My stance may not be aparent from my post, but the way I see it is what do you want? If you want a world where anything great in significance is controlled be it good or bad, then have people screened or whatever, if you want a world where everything is happenstance then let people go do what they will; trying to filter the bad out of the good is just plain not possible, you can only choose how you get it.
 

Stompwampa

Diabloii.Net Member
I know we've discussed this before, and I totally agree that some people should not be allowed to have kids, but at KOW said, you cannot censor my body. It would never fly.
I think the most logical "solution" would require expecting parents to take a parenting course sponsored by local non-profit organizations. This would keep the government out as much as possible. Perhaps there could be some tax break for taking the classes, and the parents could continue to get that break if they take the classes every few years as thier kids get older.
The thing is, the classes would have to be worthwhile, and not take a lot of time out of the parents' lives.
It's flawed, but I think it could potentially work.
 

HAMC8112

Diabloii.Net Member
Gonna try one last time before giving up. I'll rephrase:
We can all agree that any previously convicted felon with a history of violence shouldn't be allowed to have kids without going through some type of background check (i.e. they can't just go out and have kids whenever), right?
Yeah sure, blame it on the criminals. That didnt take long.

Sort your own life out first, that will give you something to do.



 

bladesyz

Diabloii.Net Member
We can all agree that any previously convicted felon with a history of violence shouldn't be allowed to have kids at any time, right? Because if we can't even agree on that then I'm not going to try to move forth onto the other examples.
This is interesting. I remember reading a book called "Frame Shift" in which humanity discover a parallel world dominated by Neanderthal civilization, where it was the homo sapiens that became extinct.

The book went on to describe the Neanderthal civilization as something of an utopia, and one aspect of this utopia was a massive eugenesis program. Essentially, anyone convicted of committing a violent crime was castrated, along with all of their immediate relatives and offspring. The idea was to remove the genes for violent behaviour from society.

Apparently, violent crime was very low in Neanderthal society, and War was almost unheard of.



 

rykuss

Banned
If laws such as those suggested were indeed passed, I and my sister's would not be here. Consequently, none of our children would be here either. So my mother made a few mistakes in her choice of companionship, in her choice of career, in not getting an education, we turned out just fine. I grew up poor but I had a dedicated mother and family as a whole that pulled together and helped each other out. We(my mother, my aunt's, my granny and later as they were born: cousin's and sister's) grew up in the same house. There wasn't any abuse, we did get regular spankings and/or restrictions placed on us for bad behaviour.

In my neighborhood, everyone knew one another. Kids didn't get away with vandalising property and swearing while hanging out with their friends. If an adult heard or saw you doing something wrong, guess what, your parents got a phone call and you were in trouble. No I didn't live in Mayberry, I lived in Mobile, AL. All these years later, I've spoken to my two nearest neighbors a handful of times. I know their children by name, I doubt they could say the same about mine.

I actually take the time to get to know their kids, I listen to the conversations they have with my kids without them knowing. I can say this for certain, they grew up very different from my kid's. Some of the topics they try to discuss with my kids, wow. I often have to shut them down.

I'm not sure how DHR functions in other places but here in Alabama, they must be seriously underfunded. My wife's cousin is 29 or 30 now and has four children. Each of them has been abused by various men she has dated over the years. She drags them around from place to place, leaves them with complete strangers(free babysitting so she can go out and party/have sex, do drugs, whatever) which is how most of the abuse happened. She married the last guy she had two kids with, things looked to be improving. Then the bombshell was dropped on the family, there was a raid on their home.

They hid drugs in their infants clothing, under their beds, in their mattress in order to keep the police from finding the Narcotics they'd been cooking up. They even had the kids memorize the formula and ingredients for them. I guess it was too hard for their crystal meth laced brains to keep up with it. :rolleyes: What's does the state do?! They took away her guardian rights.......and let her keep the kids.......wow! The state has video and audio testimony, tons of it. They had been the subject of investigation for years!

It took the state a couple years to finally put her husband in prison but she hasn't even been charged, to my knowledge. Her kids have ingested drugs, by accident because they were left sitting on the coffee table! WTF?!?! She and her husband thought it funny that their 3 year old was stoned out of her mind. It's true, some folks should not be allowed to have children. How we go about determining that, I don't know. People can rise out of the environments they are born in, if they have a desire to do so or in the case of children, if they are given that chance..........if they live that long.

Another thing, has anyone here ever reported someone to DHR or another state agency concerning the welfare of a child? Try it sometime, they treat you as if you've done something to contribute to the problem. I mean, you didn't stop the abuse right? Surely you've done something wrong, right?

RAWRRRRR!!!! [/rant off] kind of. :mad:

I'm sorry, this topic isn't just disturbing to me, it's down right infuriating. What I do find disturbing is societies definition of abuse these days. When/if I spank one of my children, I use my hand. That's all I need, I'm a big man so I have to be careful, afterall. It's not like I'm using a piece of racetrack or a lamp cord/coat hangar(Mommy Dearest?) or something. :shocked: Although those worked quite well on me growing up. :tongue:
 

Lord Nyax

Banned
Yeah sure, blame it on the criminals. That didnt take long.

Sort your own life out first, that will give you something to do.
Personal attacks are really cool. They demonstrate your maturity. Well...you have a lisp!!!

And no, what I did mean is that violent criminals are a pretty obvious selection to deny the ability to foster offspring. If we can't agree that they can't have kids, then I don't want to try even talking about any other groups...

rykuss said:
I'm sorry, this topic isn't just disturbing to me, it's down right infuriating. What I do find disturbing is societies definition of abuse these days. When/if I spank one of my children, I use my hand. That's all I need, I'm a big man so I have to be careful, afterall. It's not like I'm using a piece of racetrack or a lamp cord/coat hangar(Mommy Dearest?) or something. :shocked: Although those worked quite well on me growing up. :tongue:
As it damn well should. The future of our world, the next generation, should matter. Having them stoned 24/7 so that their irresponsible parents can skirt the prison system should positively bug your eyes out.



 

BlueDogAnchorite

Diabloii.Net Member
Every time there is a news story about some abuse (physical, etc.) of a child, I find it particularly disturbing. I can not for the life of me understand the mindset required to intentionally cause harm to a little one.
It's a cycle of abuse unfortunately :undecided: and unless EVERYTHING is constantly monitored we will never be able to completely protect anyone.

There are plenty of parents guilty of gross emotional abuse, but they will never have received a criminal record and nobody would ever suspect..



 
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