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Are their enough hot keys?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by adivirgi, Sep 2, 2010.

  1. adivirgi

    adivirgi IncGamers Member

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    Are their enough hot keys?

    We've known about the hotbar for a while now. Even based on the most recent screenshots, we can see that their are:

    5 hotbar keys
    1 right mouse click
    1 left mouse click
    The tab key (which allows us to swap one ability with our right click)

    So basically 8 programmable hotkeys in total.

    But I started thinking about this for a bit and realized that it may not be as many hotkeys as we think. And it would really suck if we had to stop to swap out an ability in the middle of a fight (kinda like we had to in Diablo 2).

    Let's say we use a Witch Doctor as an example. The left click will probably remain as a regular primary dagger attack, and we will probably prefer one of the hot keys to be a health potion, and another hot key to be a mana potion, for emergencies. So that really only leaves us with 5 hot keys available for abilities.

    Given the advanced AI, as well as some of the new monster types, does anyone think 5 hot keys is enough?

    Wouldn't we want to have a few more hotkeys to make sure that we can be prepared for any situation. Maybe the option to use 3-5 different damage abilities (single target, AOE, monk combo's), 2-3 buffs or debuffs, and 2-3 defensive abilities or crowd control abilities.

    Does anyone think 5 plus the mouse clicks is enough? If they added more would it feel to much like WoW? What do you guys think?

    Anthony
     
  2. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    D2 had more than this. you could have 8?(so some reason i wanna say 16) keys to set as skills. the difference was they did not auto cast they were all just toggles for the right click. personally i liked this alot. i had the keys set to mostly the mouse. i had wheel up, wheel down, middle mouse button, both side mouse buttons for my main 5 skills then the major keys for the rest (shift,space bar,ctrl,alt, so on). on top of that we had our belt for potions which was 1-4. was i see it D2 was way more flexible than D3 when it comes to hot keys but again i have never played the game so maybe i am wrong
     
  3. Thecla

    Thecla IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    I'm a real minimalist when it comes to hot keys, and the fewer I have to juggle the better as far as I'm concerned. I also love passive skills. So I like Bliz's approach of having 5-7 active skills on a character in D3.

    To make a D2 comparison, I'd be fine with a bowazon, say, that has her normal attack (or guided/magic arrow if it defaults to a normal attack when out of mana, or whatever the resource of the fifth rogue class will be called) on the left mouse, freezing arrow and strafe on her right mouse, and decoy, valkyrie, town portal, and inner sight on the 1-4 keys. And this being D3, we could even replace town portal by slow missile. ;)
     
  4. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    Actually there are only 7 keys. 1234, RMB, LMB, Tab. 5 is keyed only to health potions; it's not useful for skills or anything else you want to put on it.

    http://diablowiki.net/Interface


    As for the OP question... no, that's not enough. Hell, 16 weren't enough in D2, on some builds. Necros with a lot of curses, summonings, and direct attack skills could need more than that.

    The D3 team is working to simplify the controls, but they're simplifying the game at the same time, in terms of the control inputs. As many skills as they've created, I don't see how players won't wnat more than 7 of them on instant access. Maybe that many would always be a sub-optimal build, but I don't think we wnat the devs restraining our build and control options that tightly.

    Even if it will make D3 much easier to port to the Xbox, somewhere down the road... ?
     
  5. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    Well the 16 could be chained in D2 via holding the mouse. In D3, do we have hot keys to swap the mouse's skill? If we hold down the mouse, can we cast a numbered skill?


    Will there be namelocking in D3?
     
  6. Arbedark

    Arbedark IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    And the points to go Flux!



     
  7. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    Well, I own a PS3, but same number of buttons so...




    It'd be neat, but rather than casting where I point specifically, I'd end up doing it in that direction. That works for a magic missile or electrocute, but what about the Fire Bomb (can't recall name) who casts right where you click? It only extends past that via a rune.



    And what about WW? Or charge? Will they have a set range? Can this be taken advantage of in pvp where they're now predictable? Can you even pvp on a console?




    I have quite a bit of pvp-oriented questions and Blizz won't answer yet.:weep:
     
  8. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    ok so the general answer is no. copy.paste.forward to bliz
     
  9. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    I would deduct the points. The good ports actually physically change the interface between platforms. I don't see any reason why Blizzard would intentionally design a PC game they may or may not eventually end up porting to a console with definitive console ready interface. Because they are rich and competent enough to do a port properly.

    But the hotkey limit does suck, yes. I hope Blizzard reconsiders putting in the D2 version on top of it - tie it together with the Tab key. While they intend us to use 7 skills, there are abilities which are simply functionally 1 point wonders like Leap or Charge for their mobility aspect. I know I definitely would put a point in each one of those no matter what Barbarian build I would do.

    Wouldn't you use 1 stick for movement and the other stick for the cursor?
     
  10. Arbedark

    Arbedark IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    The problems I see aren't with changing the interface, but with making sure that the game itself stays the same.

    If they balance the game with the P.C version in mind and allow users to access 12 skills, but on the console port they can only access 7, then the gameplay will have changed, and the balancing they did will become less valuable.

    With regards to the controls, I assume it will be like Sacred 2 on the consoles, left stick moves character, skills auto target or you hold the button down then move the left stick to place an AoE.

    It's a pretty sucky system to be honest.

    No matter how much Blizzard are denying planning for D3 to be a console port at the moment, I really don't believe them, it's simply too big a market share for them to ignore, and the direction the game is taking is really leading towards being a very easy console port.
     
  11. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    I can't imagine a cursor working over a console version of a game like this. Their cursors are way too slow, and this game is too fast paced. It would work on SP with practice, but couldn't compete in multiplayer pvp.




    EDIT: I do recall that someone reformatted D2 to operate on a PSP. Does any one know how well it plays? If it isn't too slow or uncoordinated, I can see potential in it.

    The market's certainly good to go for, but not enough to harm PC game play progression in the mean time.
     
  12. konfeta

    konfeta IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    @Aberdark
    And why exactly would the console port be only able to access 7 skills? Why would they design the console port around hotkeys when the controller is clearly ill designed for it? Why wouldn't they do something like a skill wheel or a tabbing system?

    Sorry, but I find the conspiracy theorizing too ridiculous. The decision of 7 active skills has no tenable connection to planning a console port other than "logic" based on fear derived assumptions.

    @Sass
    You do realize that sensitivity of the sticks can be changed, right? It will never be as precise as a mouse, but that hasn't stopped the FPS genre from blooming.
     
  13. Apocalypse

    Apocalypse IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    as i keep saying, they need to just go ahead and give all consoles full mouse/keyboard support. just go the full way already
     
  14. Arbedark

    Arbedark IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    It depends entirely upon how they want to implement it but for a 360 Controller:

    A - 1
    B - 2
    X - 3
    Y - 4
    RT - 5
    LT - 6
    RB - 7
    LB - Item Pickup

    Leaving:

    Left Stick - Movement
    Right Stick - Pan / Rotate?
    Up/Down/Left/Right - Inventory, Character Screen, Skill Screen, Quest Screen

    Simple yes, which seems to be what they are going for.

    If you think Blizzard are completely ignoring the Console market you are naive, Diablo 3 would be the perfect opportunity for them to diversify into this market share, especially with how large the console market is.

    It's not a conspiracy theory, it's just a plain old normal theory.



     
  15. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    I'm inclined to say that the current number of hotkeys is not enough, but that really depends on the actual skill system.

    For instance, in the recent IGN preview we're told that each class will have ~20 active, hotkeyable skills. In the same preview Jay is implying that, functionally, the new skill system is similar to D2's system, presumably in that it has three trees and (pre)requisites.

    Now, if each class has three trees and each tree contains 1/3 of those 20 actives, you're down to 7 hotkeyable skills per tree, which - either coincidentally or by design - is also the current number of available hotkeys.
     
  16. TheMythe

    TheMythe Diablo: IncGamers Member

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  17. korialstraz

    korialstraz IncGamers Site Pal

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    Skill wheel?

    That's another 4 easily accessible skills right there. 4 more if you use diagonally as well, but those might not be so easy to select. Heck I think I've seen a skill wheel using a joystick with room for 12 skills.


     
  18. adivirgi

    adivirgi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    I would obviously prefer if they just released a diablo 3 mouse, or allow players to take their WoW mouse and allocate all the hotkeys to the various mouse buttons. the system works well in WoW, so I can't see why it wouldnt work well in diablo.

    as for the key board, i don't think it would be too difficult for blizzard to add a few more hot keys. Extra hot keys would never be a bad thing, especially since as Moonfrost mentioned from the IGN artcile, each character will have around 20 active abilities. thats a lot to choose from. we know now that 6 keys is definately limiting our character builds.

    also keep in mind that some players aren't going to know how to bind 8 moves on a regular mouse like some of you did in diablo 2. ill admit that i didnt even know how to do that. they need to make something simple for all players i think. having more hot keys is the simplist way to do that.

    i want the game to be challenging, but not challenging through UI functionality.

    Anthony
     
  19. Moonfrost

    Moonfrost IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    My point was that you won't be able to get all ~20 skills, for the same reason you aren't able to get every single talent in WoW. Normally you'll specialize in a single tree, which means you'll get access to perhaps 1/3 out of those ~20, i.e. about 7 skills. 7 is also the number of available hotkeys.

    This is merely an assumption on my part, but it makes sense, if I may say so myself.


     
  20. adivirgi

    adivirgi IncGamers Member

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    Re: Are their enough hot keys?

    ya thats makes a ton of sense. 7 sounds about right

    but we dont really know how the ability selection works just yet. i thought we were informed that the skill trees would be gone and that we would be able to pick from across all three "trees" as we level up.

    if this is the case, we can assume that we will probably be using more then 7, maybe even closer to 10 or 11, but definately not all 20. either way i dont really want to pick passive skills over active skills because a ran out of hot keys for more actives.

    i know that i can probably come online and find out how to program more abilities to my mouse through technical forums, but im also pretty sure blizzard would not want anyone to have to do that.

    and to respond to the hotkey situation if it ported to a console. i think the game really needs to be played with a keyboard and mouse, its really difficult to move cursors with the joysticks. it would definately be a disadvantage to console players to play without a mouse or keyboard, more because of the cursor then using abilities though

    Anthony
     

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