Are pure melee sins not viable?

Malodium

Diabloii.Net Member
Are pure melee sins not viable?

Ive never played an assassin but have found both unique claws and wanted to make use of them. As I looked at the different builds to get some ideas I noticed that pretty much every build is either a kicker, trapper, or whirlwind. Is a melee sin with backups in some traps or something similar not a good option?

I just wanted to duel wield those two claws *cry*

:)
 

DoubleSlick

Diabloii.Net Member
It's not that they aren't viable, its that they require a lot of hotkey management, which many are put off by (especially if they have to juggle CoS, venom, fade/ BoS, & mind blast as well). Haven't made a melee sin in about 5 updates. More experienced sinners can help you out with the build but they'll probablly suggest max DC, at least fist of fire/ claws of thunder, PStrike and the rest into shadow skills. Don't know if it's more important to max claw mastery or if a balance of venom, block, and Bos/Fade is better. Good luck with that sin. BTW, which two claws are they? Hope one is shadow killer, just looks too cool.
 

Malodium

Diabloii.Net Member
Ahh my mistake I was thinking there were only two unique claws, looks like there are four heh.

The two I have are bartucs and jade talon.
 

SSoG

Diabloii.Net Member
Pure meleesins are viable, although more difficult than the more common kicker/trapper/whirlwinders. Still, definitely viable.

You can either go with the elemental route, but as has been mentioned, that would require a lot of hotkeying. A much simpler method is to just go with Dragon Claw. It's not just a finisher, but it also makes a very good standard attack (with a ridiculous AR boost and some pretty solid speed). With 70% IAS, you'll hit a 6-frame attack with those two particular claws.

To run some numbers for you... I'm going to assume that you upgrade the Bartuc's, and that you have the perfect %ED (200%). I'm also going to assume that you have 115 strength and 115 dex (minimum require to use up'd Bartuc's). Further, I'll assume that you have slvl 20 Claw Mastery and Dragon Claw, and that all of the +skills mods on both claws are perfect, and that you have no other gear on. You're looking at 297% ED from your skills, and 172% ED from your stats. That's 794 average damage per swing from the Bartuc's, which of course could easily be further boosted by things like a Might Merc, Fortitude Armor, more +skills, damage charms, etc. That would be dealt on a reasonably fast attack with +880% AR ( :shocked: ). Throw in a maxed and fully charged Tiger Strike and that's 3221 damage. In short, definitely workable for Hell. Cobra Strike will handle all of your leeching needs (1 point is plenty after +skills). Fade will shore up your resistances (3 Anya Quests + Perfect Jade Talon + Slvl 15 Fade, such as from Treachery = 40% Resist-all in Hell already). Mind Blast, Psychic Hammer, Cloak of Shadows, and Blade Fury give you all the crowd control you could ever need, and a Shadow Master after all of that is just gravy.

If you want to make a build using those talons, by all means, go ahead! Enjoy yourself!:grin:
 

Malodium

Diabloii.Net Member
Pure meleesins are viable, although more difficult than the more common kicker/trapper/whirlwinders. Still, definitely viable.

You can either go with the elemental route, but as has been mentioned, that would require a lot of hotkeying. A much simpler method is to just go with Dragon Claw. It's not just a finisher, but it also makes a very good standard attack (with a ridiculous AR boost and some pretty solid speed). With 70% IAS, you'll hit a 6-frame attack with those two particular claws.

To run some numbers for you... I'm going to assume that you upgrade the Bartuc's, and that you have the perfect %ED (200%). I'm also going to assume that you have 115 strength and 115 dex (minimum require to use up'd Bartuc's). Further, I'll assume that you have slvl 20 Claw Mastery and Dragon Claw, and that all of the +skills mods on both claws are perfect, and that you have no other gear on. You're looking at 297% ED from your skills, and 172% ED from your stats. That's 794 average damage per swing from the Bartuc's, which of course could easily be further boosted by things like a Might Merc, Fortitude Armor, more +skills, damage charms, etc. That would be dealt on a reasonably fast attack with +880% AR ( :shocked: ). Throw in a maxed and fully charged Tiger Strike and that's 3221 damage. In short, definitely workable for Hell. Cobra Strike will handle all of your leeching needs (1 point is plenty after +skills). Fade will shore up your resistances (3 Anya Quests + Perfect Jade Talon + Slvl 15 Fade, such as from Treachery = 40% Resist-all in Hell already). Mind Blast, Psychic Hammer, Cloak of Shadows, and Blade Fury give you all the crowd control you could ever need, and a Shadow Master after all of that is just gravy.

If you want to make a build using those talons, by all means, go ahead! Enjoy yourself!:grin:
Excellent! thanks much!



 

SSoG

Diabloii.Net Member
You say that as though it's a bad thing.:flip:
As frequently as I'm adventuring while eating or chatting on the phone, hotkeys can spoil a game. I like characters capable of setting their skills and then going for hours at a time without me even having to touch the keyboard for any reason whatsoever. That way I don't have to worry about getting cheetos gunk on my keyboard.:wink:



 

Sheep

Diabloii.Net Member
As frequently as I'm adventuring while eating or chatting on the phone, hotkeys can spoil a game. I like characters capable of setting their skills and then going for hours at a time without me even having to touch the keyboard for any reason whatsoever. That way I don't have to worry about getting cheetos gunk on my keyboard.:wink:

I kind of like FoF set as A, CoT set as S, Pheonix Strike set as D, Tiger Strike set as F and Dragon Claw on right click, letting shadow take care of doing mb for the most part. (some fkeys as well but mostly prebuffs).

IMO BoI is only useful for synergizing PS, so I don't key it.



 

wizAdept

Diabloii.Net Member
I kind of like FoF set as A, CoT set as S, Pheonix Strike set as D, Tiger Strike set as F and Dragon Claw on right click, letting shadow take care of doing mb for the most part. (some fkeys as well but mostly prebuffs).

IMO BoI is only useful for synergizing PS, so I don't key it.
Back however long ago it was I did a runthrough of the game with an overbudgeted PS assassin I found it easier to just hotkey everything on right click, means less clicking if I need to release charges multiple times vs the same opponent.
I don't remember exact hotkey layout but it was something like s= cot, d= fof, f= ps, mouse4 = dclaw all on rightclick, so if I ran across a light immune lets say, I could just hold mouse2 on the monster and switch between d and mouse4 to hit hit release hit hit release ect, instead of how you have it with left/right click having to reclick on a monster for each release, that sounds like more effort.
Holding down mouse2 while swapping hotkeys and keeping everything on mouse2 seems easier for this task, or at least in my experience.

Actually every assassin that I built ended up using mouse2 for all hotkeys, with mouse1 usually being an attack (dclaw, talon, fireblast, ect) that I also have hotkeyed on mouse2. It just seems easier for gameplay that way.



 

BIGeyedBUG

Diabloii.Net Member
As frequently as I'm adventuring while eating or chatting on the phone, hotkeys can spoil a game. I like characters capable of setting their skills and then going for hours at a time without me even having to touch the keyboard for any reason whatsoever. That way I don't have to worry about getting cheetos gunk on my keyboard.:wink:
Oh, have I got the game for you then: http://www.progressquest.com/info.php :p

I guess I understand though--every hotkey gets used on my Phoenix 'sins. But I always feel like I'm a cross between afk and half-naked when I'm playing other characters without as many skills used.

@ Wizadept--That's how I do it now, though I used to be lmb-charge / rmb-everything else. I usually put Dtail on the lmb, as it's a fairly good choice when I've screwed up and clicked something accidentally.



 
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