Anything Goes D2 Lounge!

DiabloTwoinDC

Diabloii.Net Member
Screenshot1145.jpg
Very strange. This is one of my old 1.13 characters that I just fired up in 1.14. He is casting Howl. In game animation is a small radius, yellow circle, kinda like Battle Cry/War Cry. Sometimes, monsters would flee, other times they would not. When I tried to screen grab, I couldn't capture anything.. :confused:

Whatever. Back into the retirement home with you.. :p
 

jonnyphive

Diabloii.Net Member
Anyone have a good idea as to how much blizz damage is needed for efficient p8 2-seal chaos runs? Is there any chance an 800-damage frozen orb would be viable in that setting?
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
@jonnyphive as it happens, i have a great idea of how different (lowish) blizz dmgs feel during 2 seal runs. Take "efficient" with a grain of salt, and I'm assuming p8 for exp. But I think you can do the runs as low as like 5k blizz dmg (be sure and static the heck out of infector's pack), but I noticed things started feeling a whole lot better when my dmg got up into the mid 6's. And then when I equipped nightwings and got into the low 7's it was faster still, but I decided that last step wasn't worth the life and mf decrease in my situation.

So I would recommend shooting for at least mid 6's for blizz dmg if reasonably achievable, and if not, you can probably still do the runs fine. I know I've harped on this elsewhere, but the single most important thing to making blizzy chaos runs palatable imo is delirium on merc (unless you want to use lawbringer merc, which i found even safer, but annoying). Even if that means you have to use reapers to get him some leech (i used coh and insight).

As to frozen orb, I doubt that it will be even close to comparable, but am sure its at least doable. I know @darkstarhub has a sorc at 97 mainly from doing CS with an orber, so it's definitely workable. I have no idea what his dmg is or runtimes are like though.
 

jonnyphive

Diabloii.Net Member
@Luhkoh Yeah, I thought about tagging you in my question given you're fairly fresh off those runs with Arkana. Thanks for the quick feedback! I think I could get into the 6-6.5k damage range with what I'm thinking about. I tend to agree about orb, but the damage I should be able to muster is a bit above what you usually see, so I hold out some small amount of hope there.

The reason I ask:
I need to go ahead and get in on the UT99er thing soon as the sorc I've been quietly building has had *insane* luck. As documented back in Yng's Fathom thread, when she was a mere level ~84 she found DF on her second or third AT run (ever). Since then I've been running p8 Pindleskin for xp and drops, because once you have DF, you really don't need any +skills at all to take down Pindle easily. Finding DF that early on an untwinked blizzy was incredible luck, but then two days ago Pindle dropped this same gal a Griffon's Eye. He was also kind enough to drop a Sur, a light facet, and an eth cryptic axe that rolled 4os, all before level 91, so this gal's luck has been nothing short of unreal. Everything else I could want can fairly easily be brute-forced out of meph and LK, so here I am mulling over options for a very stylish cold/light hybrid that could go all the way to 99. Decisions, decisions...

I'm delinquent on posting all these drops (and in general lately), but I'll try to stop by the IFT and make an introductory post in the 99er thread within the next few days.
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
Anyone have a good idea as to how much blizz damage is needed for efficient p8 2-seal chaos runs? Is there any chance an 800-damage frozen orb would be viable in that setting?
A typical maxed out blizzard sorc with not that expensive equipment (like Tal's armor, amu and belt, shako, Ali Baba, Rhyme etc.) should deal enough damage for p8 CS. I think it's inefficient, however, because you need a means versus cold immunes. 800 damage FO is very useful versus Diablo if you make the orb explode directly on him. That's what I'm doing when going to there with my meteorb sorc. I prefer a bowazon or WW barb in that place, however.

BTW, p8 CS is not very effective with respect to loot. Seal and rosses random bosses don't drop more at higher /p settings and D maxes out at /p3 which is the optimum setting IMO. Some people do the monsters at /p1 and change to /p3 when D is going to appear, but to my taste, that's borderline cheating. I would do that for reaching L99, however.

Edit: Letter salad fixed.
 
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jonnyphive

Diabloii.Net Member
@krischan Thanks for the comments. With Fathom and enough +skills, I might be able to get away with using some sort of hybrid for 2-seal runs but that'll depend largely on me having the patience to collect enough additional equipment. I am thinking about going p1 seals / p7 Diablo with synergized frozen orb instead of Nihlathak, if/once I reach 98.
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
@krischan this is for a 99er tournament where p8 is almost always most efficient (until lvl 98). You also don't need a cold immune solution for 2-seal runs in CS, as the few cold immunes have little effect on exp/hr. p1/p3 diablo runs would truly take ages to reach lvl 99.
 

srrw

Diabloii.Net Member
Okay. I'm having a bit of trouble with my Hammerdins merc surviving the CS. Would appreciate some input of your experiences.

Current setup is:
Level 89 Prayer
Insight eth CA / VGaze no socket / ebugged 3640 def Stone
(I know it's crap, best I could come up with without rolling new RWs)

Previous setup I used with mid to great success is
Prayer
Insight eth 1.07 Thresher / VGaze /w IAS jewel / ebugged Fortitude
(before I started fresh... again. So I don't have access to those items)

Currently my runestash is kind of empty (everything up to Ohm and Jah+, but no Lo-Ber) but I plan to test
#1 - Delirium + ebugged CoH
#2 - VGaze/Something else? + ebugged Forti (I can cube a Lo if I need to)
#3 - Steel Shade + ebugged CoH

So my questions are:
Have you had any success getting the moron to take a few hits from de Seis' pack without dying instantly?
Which setup did you use?
Is Delirium making a noticeable difference in his/your survivability?
Should I just go for Steel Shade + CoH and kite de Seis?
How important did you find his poke speed to be? Don't have a eth 4os Thresher atm.
Is HF/Defiance worth it? I love Prayer too much to give up honestly...
Decisions, decisions..

BTW I am and plan to run 3 seal + Diablo on /p8. Will definitely try to roll a map where there are no spawns in de Seis' wing (or at least not where he spawns).
P.S.: I'm using Rising Sun so telebombing everything except Knights is not really an issue for the Pally itself.
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't think there is any way at all to tank 'de Seis' reliably on players 8 without either HF, Delirium or some sort of godly timetravel gear (tons of high life skillers, beta CtA and maybe PDR?). Are you 100% set on killing Diablo just yet? Until 97 that's not the fastest way of leveling HDin as Gripphon showed a while back, just running Vizier/Infector should be faster (and of course much safer).

In any case my go to solution for Fana/Might packs in CS is to hide in an easy pack, i.e. whenever I see Doom Knights and Fana/Might I teleport on top of the nearest Pitlord/Fingermage pack and start a Hammerfield. The approaching Doom Knights get caught in the field but can't close in because of the pack surrounding me.
Maybe it could help to find a map with two packs right next to de Seis so you have a good chance of getting a Fingermage/Pitlord pack to hide in.
 

srrw

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't think there is any way at all to tank 'de Seis' reliably on players 8 without either HF, Delirium or some sort of godly timetravel gear (tons of high life skillers, beta CtA and maybe PDR?).
Since I play HC I have absolutely no intention of teleporting in the middle of his pack even with HF/Delirium/5k life and what not. I'm not suicidal :D
What I'm really looking for is when I tele a 'safe' distance away and start spamming hammers while the Knight move toward me and the moron towards them for him to survive a 2-3-4 hits before I have to tele him to safety and begin spamming hammers in a new location and so on.
Are you 100% set on killing Diablo just yet? Until 97 that's not the fastest way of leveling HDin as Gripphon showed a while back, just running Vizier/Infector should be faster (and of course much safer).
I agree that Grip runs are by far superior for both XP and safety but it's not really my main goal (for now). Otherwise I'd just go Steel Shade+CoH and call it a day. I really want some ilvl94 GCs and it generally makes the runs a bit more fun for me. If I get 2-3 charms in quick succession I might reconsider tho. Or if I can't get the runs to be comfortable for now I'll just get some levels and see how that goes.
In any case my go to solution for Fana/Might packs in CS is to hide in an easy pack, i.e. whenever I see Doom Knights and Fana/Might I teleport on top of the nearest Pitlord/Fingermage pack and start a Hammerfield. The approaching Doom Knights get caught in the field but can't close in because of the pack surrounding me.
Maybe it could help to find a map with two packs right next to de Seis so you have a good chance of getting a Fingermage/Pitlord pack to hide in.
This... is an interesting approach. I'm not sure if I'm ballsy enough to try that. Since if a Doom Knight sneaks through the pack and the hammers and I don't notice it I might be as good as dead. :D
 

helvete

Diabloii.Net Member
Boost your damage. If high enough, minions have to go through hit recovery animation.

Not being amped helps the moron, and if not amped, shaftstop helps the most. If amped, you could try pdr route. Jeweller's of amicae 4x sol and some circlet of life everlasting with sols.

Or life tap wand in cube.
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
@srrw I had same exact problem. And am doing the exact same type of runs with my hdin (though not hc). Everything smooth except merc vs de seis. I found vamp helped a ton so i like your gearing selection for him. As far as making him survive better:
1. I reallllly like holy freeze for hdin in chaos. I'm a huge prayer merc fan in general, but with 1 point redemption it's just not needed on hdin. If you're even lazier about potting (i often am) rising sun is another amazing option. Low on health? Tele into nearest venom lord pack.
2. Levels help him a ton. This isn't really advice, just more so saying he survives a little better in a few more levels.
3. Dont let him get hit by de seis's minions. Sounds stupid, but this helped me a ton. In practical sense, it meant me doing an extra tele or two during the "move the minions away from de seis" stage in order to keep the merc within my hammer circle. This made the most difference. I bet an extra tele here will change the issue to at least a comfortable rate of merc deaths for you.
 

srrw

Diabloii.Net Member
Boost your damage. If high enough, minions have to go through hit recovery animation.
Sadly that's not really an option for me right now. I have no SoJ/Bul's, only plain PCombats which I'd rather not use and ammy has to be Rising Sun since I don't have enough decent fr/life SC's to make Waterwalk+ResFire/Hotspur work for me atm.
Not being amped helps the moron, and if not amped, shaftstop helps the most. If amped, you could try pdr route. Jeweller's of amicae 4x sol and some circlet of life everlasting with sols.
Yeah, but then he will instagieb vs any Venom Lord pack.
Or life tap wand in cube.
It will definitely be slower then just making sure I tele merc away from the pack :D

1. I reallllly like holy freeze for hdin in chaos. I'm a huge prayer merc fan in general, but with 1 point redemption it's just not needed on hdin. If you're even lazier about potting (i often am) rising sun is another amazing option. Low on health? Tele into nearest venom lord pack.
I don't like to use Healing Pots and at 3k++ life they don't do much anyway, so yeah. The LPK on Enigma helps a lot but Prayer+Insight makes it even better. I never have to use a juv unless I screw up big time or I want to hold a good position while a million things whack me. I do use Rising Sun for now which is great but I definitely plan to switch it out in favor of Mara's/Waterwalk+Stacked Fire resistance when I have the chance to do so.

2. Levels help him a ton. This isn't really advice, just more so saying he survives a little better in a few more levels.
I might do Grip runs until ~94 if I don't get the merc to survive any better. Problem is I don't have CoH and nowhere near a Ber so he'll have to do without life leech, which I'm not sure he'll be able to. I'll test it out.

3. Dont let him get hit by de seis's minions. Sounds stupid, but this helped me a ton. In practical sense, it meant me doing an extra tele or two during the "move the minions away from de seis" stage in order to keep the merc within my hammer circle. This made the most difference. I bet an extra tele here will change the issue to at least a comfortable rate of merc deaths for you.
That's what I'm doing atm. I have to roll a map where there are no spawns near where he spawns. When I clear every single monster in his spawning area I have no problem killing his pack via kiting. It takes more time than I would like however.

***

I'll do some testing as see what works for me. I'll come back with the results at some point hehe.

Thank you all for your input!
 

Arctodus

Diabloii.Net Member
@srrw Another, perhaps stupid, suggestion : carry pots for him, not you. I was doing p8 CS runs with my hdin (only level 89 right now) and had roughly the same problem you had. I use a Defiance merc and he’s undergeared (Duriel Shell and Steelskull). He’s only there to carry Insight, after all. I move him away and lure the enemy into my hammers when things are dicey for him (de Seis and sometimes Infector, depending on how he rolls). And I make sure to pot him when necessary. Lately, he hasn’t died a lot with this approach. The good majority of the time he survives the runs. It does make for perhaps longer runs, but when he dies, that slows thing down even more, so yeah.

In a word : babysit him. Pretty much the only thing I can do, since I don’t have all the gg gear anyway.
 

srrw

Diabloii.Net Member
@srrw Another, perhaps stupid, suggestion : carry pots for him, not you. I was doing p8 CS runs with my hdin (only level 89 right now) and had roughly the same problem you had. I use a Defiance merc and he’s undergeared (Duriel Shell and Steelskull). He’s only there to carry Insight, after all. I move him away and lure the enemy into my hammers when things are dicey for him (de Seis and sometimes Infector, depending on how he rolls). And I make sure to pot him when necessary. Lately, he hasn’t died a lot with this approach. The good majority of the time he survives the runs. It does make for perhaps longer runs, but when he dies, that slows thing down even more, so yeah.

In a word : babysit him. Pretty much the only thing I can do, since I don’t have all the gg gear anyway.
I did throw Juvs his way very often and he was doing okayish. I almost never have to use one on my Pally so they're mostly for his use.

I did a few test runs with Steel Shade+Stone and he's actually doing okay without leech. He only died once to Conviction Infector, not surprisingly. I think Steel Shade+CoH and a couple of more levels will ease my pains a lot. Which means I need a Ber now - CS I'm looking at you! Maybe if I throw in a Thresher Insight and an IAS jewel in the helm he'll be top notch. I'll skip De Seis for now and just do Grip runs since they're going a lot smoother and a lot faster. And when I think about it - I really don't need the high ilvl GC right this second.
 

ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
My approach to De Seies with Hammerdin was to lure minions a bit away isolating De Seies, then telestomp him with safety while his minions slowly walk back. Simple and effective. Like in this vid, e.g. at 0:30 in the first run while Amp'ed. Minions usually die from this as well since they walk through hammers back and forth, and it safe for Merc even without defensive gear like Reaper (on this char I used Andy with FR socketed, ebug Forti, Insight). IMO Conviction Infector is not a specific Merc problem but also a Paladin problem, unless using Rising Sun. IMO it's just a matter of paying attention to it, and if it spawns tele to the edge of the group and let them run into hammers rather than right into the middle.

As for XP efficiency, Gripphon runs are best until 97. For 97-99, two seal runs were a bit less efficient than P8/P7 Diablo runs according to the recent 99er Paladins.
 

srrw

Diabloii.Net Member
@ffs Yeah, It's what I do most of the time. But if I do exactly what you did in the video the moron will die 95% of the time. Levels play a big part in mercs survivability.

I had previously ran CS with Waterwalk+overstacked Fire Resistance to counter Conviction completely and it wasn't a big deal. I barely took any damage from his pack even if a was in the middle. But I currently don't have good enough gear/charms to archive this without sacrificing life/kill speed so Rising Sun is the best option atm. When I get Bul/Mara's and a few nice fr/life charms I'll definitely go for this setup since the life increase and damage increase are significant.

On the other had I did a few more 2 seal runs with the Steel Shade+Stone setup and it's working great. I'll definitely make CoH as soon as I get a Ber to drop. Interestingly enough from 80 to 90 I did not get a single HR drop which is unusual for the CS :D

My theoretically best setup would be:

Shako Ber/Vex/Jewel with FR/Dex depending on needs
HotO
Enigma
Spirit ST
Trangs
Arach
Waterwalk
Bul
FCR/Dex/FR/Life etc ring
Mara's

3-5 PCombats /w life
Gheeds
Enough 10-11fr/15+life or 7mf SC's to reach max fire res under Conviction
Goal is to get at least 4k Life and 200+mf

I post this mainly for self reference :D

This was my previous CS runner, btw.

Edit: Complaining works. Confirmed once more :D
 
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McGruber08

Diabloii.Net Member
I have question I'm stuck on.

Gloves for Javazon - Guide I read suggests +3/20 ias gloves, best I've found is rare +2/20 ias gloves with +13 str, +26% cold resist & 13% mf and I'm comparing those as well as the Lay On Hands gloves since they have 20 ias & 350% demon damage and fire resist. Opinions on the best to wear.
 
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Basicbhoy

Diabloii.Net Member
So this place still exists? Great. Had an enforced lay off due to massive issues in personal life and just managed to get a personal PC back. Lost all my stashes though. Pity, I miss my windy druid. Anyway, back playing a wee bit so see you guys and gals around
 
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