Anything Goes D2 Lounge!

ffs

Diabloii.Net Member
I made Faith in Diamond Bow and GMB, but DB is in use 99% of the time, can definitely recommend. It can hit 7 FPA Multi as well and has good damage with a very small range. Though it doesn't provide + skills, not very significant for phyiscal Bowie but you may or may not care about those. Similar option is Shadow Bow, it has 0.5 higher base average damage than DB but a wider damage range, so a bit more random leech and damage output.
 

Jamie

Diabloii.Net Member
I thank you guys from steering me away from the Dream Helm or other high cost runewords for my Zealdin, that won't help all that much.

@Gripphon I have a lot of different bows I can use for Faith, many superior 15ed too. If I had enough wealth to make two Faiths, I would probably use a GMB and then a different one that a Rouge Merc could use. But since I will only be able to make one Faith for quite a long time, I am thinking the 15ed Blade Bow would be the best because I can use it on a Merc and on an Amazon. It has great speed and damage. I would be missing out on the +bow skills of course.

Do you really think it isn't worth making it in a Blade Bow, or even something like a Shadow, Diamond, Ward or whatever? Just being as poor as I am, I want the bow to be able to be used in several situations. Am I wasting it by making it in the Blade Bow? I could always make a GMB one later on, but this would allow it to be multi-purpose for the time being. I hope to find a WF (or maybe trade one day) and use that on my char and the Blade Bow (or other?) Faith on my Merc. I could also then use it for a Merc on other melee characters, in place of a Might Merc.

What do you guys think? I have the option of 2x 15%ED/3 AR Blade Bow(would need Larzuk'd), 13%ED Blade Bow (4os), 13%ED Great Bow (4os), 14%ED Great Bow(would need Larzuk'd), plain Diamond Bows(4os), plain Shadow Bow(4os), plain Crusader Bow(40s), +3 and a +1 GMB (would need cubed for chance of 4os), +1, +2, +3 Matriarchal Bow (would need cubed for chance of 4os).

So I have a lot of options. The GMB and Mat might not end up with 4 sockets. And I would really only want to use the +3 versions. But I still feel like using a bow that is more universal is the better option at this point in time. I am not sure how much the Fanat Aura it provides will make up for speed differences. I am naïve and not good at figuring that part out.


@ffs I seem to remember looking over the elite bow stats and thinking that a Blade Bow would be superior to the Diamond, although I may be wrong. I may be wrong and overdoing it for speed with the Blade Bow, since I will have the Fanat Aura. I just thought when I went through them, that a Blade Bow seemed best. Maybe a Shadow or Diamond would be better when considering in the Fanat?

I love all of the advice. I love talking and theorizing about all of this stuff with you peoples! This is the only non-toxic D2 forum and information source out there, I do believe lol.
 
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Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
I forgot the details about these things. I think with Diamond Bow Fanaticism aura level will determine whether amazon needs 65 or 70 ias to have 7 fpa while Blade Bow is a sure thing. However, Blade Bow is temporary solution because with time player making the bow might have enough gear to have 7 fpa with Diamond Bow and enjoy extra damage output. This is why I'd go with Diamond Bow over Blade because it is a long-term solution.

Also, problem with Shadow Bow is high dexterity requirement unless bowazon goes for max block on switch or pumps dexterity for damage anyway.
 

T72on1

Diabloii.Net Member
@T72on1 I really appreciate the offer of doing a trade. I will wait for you to do your RFL and I will think about what I am going to pull the trigger on. Or knowing me, I might just do nothing with them and keep saving lol. I was thinking that I was going to try to trade a Jah for a Ber+Sur, since Ber+Ber wouldn't really be beneficial for anyone who could just cube their own Jah. Plus I found a Sur a little bit ago, so a Ber+Sur would allow me to make Infinity. If you decide to use or keep them, don't worry at all. I may decide to make a Faith lol.
Ok. Just remind me of it from time to time, because it's likely I'll forget :oops:.
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
@Gripphon 65 or 70 seems like a lot of IAS. What typical bowzon gear ends up adding that much?
Highlord's amulet, Cat's Eye amulet, Laying of Hands gloves (or knockback gloves), belt can provide 10 if needed and rest is from headpiece. It can be Giant Skull which offers knockback and 2 sockets, it can be Kira's Guardian, Crown of Ages, some magic or rare circlet with frw, Andariel's Visage is okay choice as well.
 

krischan

Europe Trade Moderator
It is according to the Basin Wiki, which tends to have correct information:

"Furthermore, when multiple items supplying the same aura are equipped, not only is that aura supplied at their combined level, but radial damage for an aura of that combined level is applied once for each supplying item."
That's interesting! I'm still not going to make something like a dual Dream character soon, however :).
 

Jamie

Diabloii.Net Member
Highlord's amulet, Cat's Eye amulet, Laying of Hands gloves (or knockback gloves), belt can provide 10 if needed and rest is from headpiece. It can be Giant Skull which offers knockback and 2 sockets, it can be Kira's Guardian, Crown of Ages, some magic or rare circlet with frw, Andariel's Visage is okay choice as well.
The only thing I have out of all of that, is the Kira's Guardian(ironically I gambled my first one early one while gambling circlets and coronets lol. The only unique that I can think of ever gambling since 1.10 came around. Once in awhile I gamble crowns hoping a CoA will pop up lol. I may have a decent rare circlet that I have forgotten about and can look for though. Would love a Giant Skull or a CoA. But I don't have any ED/IAS Jewels yet :(. edit: I do have Laying of Hands of course. The rest I have been kind of unlucky with.

I just was under the impression that a Blade Bow would allow for better resists/MF/damage in the other gear and the damage isn't that much different. I am not very good at figuring out the exact IAS needed for each bow, combined with the Fanat Aura and off weapon IAS. Things were a little simpler when I used to make bowzons.

Since I don't have a WF yet (I have every other Unique Bow I believe.. Burizza/Eaglehorn etc..), so I was planning on making a Faith Blade/Diamond/Shadow/Great Bow and using a Might Merc. Then when I finally end up with a WF one day, I would put the WF on my Bowzon and move the Faith over to a Rouge Merc. That is why I want to make my first Faith in a bow that a Rouge can use, so I can have a little more versatility with it while I am still poor.

I also like the fact that my Blade Bow is 15%ed/+3AR.. perfect base.. just needs to be socketed with the Larzuk Quest. I think it would be a good bow for a Rouge too, later down the line. Whether I make a GMB +3 Faith later on or do the WF route. There are a couple of other runewords that look pretty cool too, like Brand, Ice, Hand of Justice or BotD.


One other Runeword I am intrigued by, is a Beast. Maybe in a Berserker Axe. Is a very nice one. Beast, Infinity or Faith.. we shall see how it goes and how badly I want a bowzon verses improving my Javazon and then having a character in Bear Form or Fanat Aura added on with my Frenzy Baba perhaps......
 

NorthDakota

Diabloii.Net Member
How do yall maintain focus so well when doing efficient runs? There's so much talk about run times and things like that but I always find the problem I have most is maintaining my focus over the course of runs. I want to drink coffee, stop and pay attention to whatever show I'm watching, smoke my ecig, ID gear and dink around. I got focus like I can do runs for a whole day and they do trend towards being more and more efficient, but I think I fart around more than a lot of you folks when I play.
 

Jamie

Diabloii.Net Member
@NorthDakota I am totally like you. Even when I do the runs themselves, I am not efficient or fast at all. I just don't enjoy doing SUPER FAST runs for hours on end. I will do super fast runs for small sections of time, but I am the type of person who enjoys slowing down and enjoying the game, especially when I make new characters and I like to enjoy doing all of the untwinked stuff and messing around.

I just can't do the ~20 second LK runs ~30 second Trav runs and stuff like that. I like to check lots of items that are blue and yellow, for the off chance of super Godly items. Blues and Yellows can be so much better than most Unique or Set Items, although SUPER RARE to find. And that little glimmer of hope, keeps me checking for the certain ones that have potential Godly options.

I would guestimate that I do my run times about twice as long as the fastest runners and my muling times take up a lot more time than the people who have a system down to mule super fast. When I want to add speed, I just stop picking up any flawless gems lol.

I still have my lucky spurts, I just probably don't find as many runes as fast as most of the people. But I have fun with how I do it and that is all that matters. Even with my snail butt, I found a Vex,Sur, Jah all in the last week or so! I just also go through stretches of a couple of months where I don't get anything to write home about lol.

But like I have said a couple times now, it is all about the enjoyment you get from the game. When I play D2, I play it to enjoy it the game. Racing around in a mad click and hack and slash fest and barely looking at only very specific items, just is not fun for me at all. Maybe one day down the road, I will develop the desire to do super fast runs.

Edit: I am about 95% sure that I have ADD and OCD, to go along with my bad anxiety. I never went to a doctor with it and am over a decade out of high school, so it is just what I live with nowadays. It has made it so I can't skip monsters and items and have to do everything to a kind of perfectionist type of level, or else it will eat at me until I fix the issue. That slows down a lot, because I have to double check things and play a certain way where I am not rushing past things. If I don't play like that, it will drive me crazy, I won't enjoy the game and going back will cost me way more time.

Hopefully one day I can get better at fighting it lol. But that is the reason I don't find items super fast and go long stretches before finding things a lot. It also keeps me from being able to do one area or one type of run, over and over and over, without getting bored or going crazy and having to switch to a new area to run or MF. I knew it's not the most efficient way to play, but it keeps me happy and has found me tons pr goodies, so I am quite pleased.
 
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Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
Most important thing about efficient playing is it must be player's preferred playing style or he will get tired of it fast. If that is not someone's preferred playing style, then it may not be beneficial for him to go into it at all.

It requires a lot of "training" with runcounter, testing own limits, seeking every minor improvement and dedication to continue doing it. That develops the needed focus as well as fast scanning technique. I'm playing that style for the past 6 years and still finding improvements. It's almost neverending process, although somewhere must be the final limit to everything. However, if that is not fun to someone, he naturally won't enjoy doing it at all. Nor should everyone do it.

In the end, drops in this game aren't decided by the speed, they are decided by luck. No amount of speed can ensure getting rarest of the items like Tyrael's, Zod, Mang Song, Astreon's, Web. They either drop or they don't.
 

sir_cyclops

Diabloii.Net Member
@Jamie @NorthDakota

Also, @Luhkoh has told me this many times. If you can do 16s trav runs but dislike it and play for an hour then stop, you won’t find nearly as much as a guy who does 40s runs but plays for 3 hours the same day.

Or if you do “the most efficient” build or run times, but stop playing d2 in a month, you won’t find anything compared to the guy that enjoys d2 so much he plays for a year.
 

NorthDakota

Diabloii.Net Member
I think lk is about the only place that I can really push it for hours on end due to the lack of variation at all, it's so short that it becomes muscle memory very easily so I can like zone out for it. I can kinda do it for baals just because it's so similar each run, but for pits or trav for example it ends up being a bit different each run and feels almost like more taxing to run mentally and so I end up slowing down a bit. I really envy you super top end theorycrafters though, it's insane that new stuff is still getting figured out and optimized
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
Some observations I have had so far on the topic of 'efficiency' (and how to achieve more of it without going insane :D)

First: Maybe it's obvious to some people but it has to be mentioned: Even the best runners can't hold peak efficiency for hours on end. There's only so much your brain will endure ;)

Second: Consider passive vs. active improvements to run times. Certain things make your runs faster 'by default' without you having to constantly focus or micromanage stuff:
  • Rolling a good map. (Usually a decent map doesn't take forever to roll and you can keep it as long as you like)
  • Figuring out a 'pickup concept' and sticking to it. What will you pick up and what do you leave on the ground when your inventory is full. Also it can help to clean the inventory so you have more room for picking stuff. (e.g. when I started doing Trav before RFL I had 2 columns and I was miserable but I made some more room and now I'm happy with 4 columns of free space and fewer GoMule visits :))
  • Setting limits and expectations beforehand: Doing open ended Pindle runs with the hopes of getting Griffon's is a sure-fire recipe for dissappointment. Instead you could say: I want to do 200 runs and get 1-2 TC87 items, chances are you'll be content with what you got after you did the 200 runs! Disappointment leads to burnout much faster.
  • Looking for a build you like and using that instead of the optimal build. I absolutely hate playing Pit Zerker but Pit Singer is a lot of fun for me (and as it turns out close in efficiency!) There's usually a lot more options than the ones used by the top runners. Reading threads here (for example the Hall of Records or pretty much any RFL/MFO thread) you'll find a lot of showcases for characters that are not the most efficient yet also a lot of fun.
  • Similar to what @NorthDakota mentions: If you learn the routine for a run but take it slowly you will almost always be faster than someone who doesn't have a solid routine and tries to go as fast as possible.

And finally: Don't expect any kind of efficiency when you're watching TV on the side :D I have however had a generally positive experience when it comes to listening to music during runs. That might be the compromise if you want to be fast but don't want to have only the game sound for hours. (Those horrible sounds of Gems dropping in LK :confused:)
 

Jamie

Diabloii.Net Member
Good stuff. I think early on when I started doing SP, I would get frustrated easily from seeing everyone finding high runes from LK and other places. My first go around before my hard drive crashed and I lost everything, I don't think I ever found a HR, but I did have decent gear.

This go around it took me a long time to find my first high runes. It got to the point where I was starting to try and convince myself that there was no way people were finding them as much as they were legitimately lmao. I eventually started hitting some and that was the motivation to run it for longer stretches of times and I started finding more and eventually realized that I can't get upset and my luck seemed to come in cycles.

I also had to accept the fact that the way I play isn't even close to being the most efficient, but it is how I enjoy the game and I have still been pretty lucky playing that way. LK is the only place I can do for really long stretches, like @NorthDakota mentioned above, while being in robot mode. I switch places up so frequently, that I have come to learn I won't find a high runes or rare items everytime I commit to an area. In fact, more than likely I won't. With me it all seems to come in a big group every few months, which keeps me happy and coming back for more.

I also have never timed my runs, so I don't know where they all stand at. Trav and LK are the only ones that I can be moderately fast at, but I know I am still way behind the top runners. I mentioned times above that I thought were the top runs, but I may have been off. those are the only two places.. along with Pindle as well.. that I know I am at least decently fast at when I get going for awhile.
 
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Ghonn

Diabloii.Net Member
About efficieny: I am not an efficient player, but I managed to farm Infinity from cows and travincal, and by cows I mean a full RFL batch. That was just too robot-like, and upcoming (currently running) RFL Travincal round seemed much more viable option. Just so it happens, it took nearly four hours for me to roll a decent map for travi and now nearly one week later I've put 1,5 hours into it. First runs were fast but they're slowing all the time. Now I can't be arsed to do it anymore, this discipline to the extreme. Instead, I've spent some time in CS, which actually rewarded me and feels at home. No timing, no hurry. Just running and id'ing whatever I please.

I can totally understand what you're saying about not wanting to be efficient and just messing around. If that's how you like it, just do it. Most important part of this is having fun. I also enjoy reading about you doing the best to mimic bots, but being a bot myself does not seem an option.

Play some music and be casual.
 

NorthDakota

Diabloii.Net Member
Lk is my jam though, imo there's no better way to get them HRs. It's nice knowing it's just a matter of time. The build is easy to throw together and once you roll the map you're set forever. Man farming up my first infinity is an experience I'll never forget. I was renting this guy's basement and he worked all day but his dog would chill with me and I'd do lk runs for days straight. Smoke break every hour on the hour otherwise just d2. Girlfriend would come over at night and chill out. That was a singular focus for me though. I wanted an infinity so badly and I was still so fresh to the d2 spf that I was still blown away that it was achievable alone. I can't remember the name of the player or the matriarch offhand, but just a lightning sorcy who hit 99 and completed their grail, their thread inspired me. I have it bookmarked somewhere.. Miranda I think was the character name. I stumbled on that thread randomly and it led me down a rabbit hole Google searching. Wtf is a grail. Then I found all that stuff out and it was like magic to me. Hearing about 10 thousand lk runs to complete infinity. Well I've almost certainly done that now and it doesn't seem so extraordinary anymore. Anyways I just love lk and I also love you guys.

Edif: went lookin. Of course, it's our boy @jjscud with his light sorcy MIRANDA. #11 on the 99er list. I idolize that thread and all the 99ers on the list, but that one particularly because that thread is the one that I found first brought me here and gave me so many positive experiences.
 
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Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
@art_vandelay Why do you think you like pit singer much better than zerker? Just not so much weapon swapping? Just curious, haven't tried out either yet, but am working toward more builds slowly :)
 

Gripphon

Diabloii.Net Member
Diablo sounds are not very inspiring. I play without ingame sound since beginning lol. Music is natural thing to go with the playing, especially in area rerunning over and over again.
 
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