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Anything Goes D2 Lounge!

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by NorthDakota, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    This video is for everyone who want to see Travincal dudez with a boner.

    Not really optimized playing style since idea of boner is to cast spears at minion which is attacked by a merc to get corpse faster. But, upon trying to really aim like that, it didn't really speed me up by any meaningful margin... I suppose reason is, by nailing minion at random like this, 1/3 of the time you do nail minion that gets attacked by a merc, and if you nail the wrong one, upon switching spear to the attacked one you do get corpse faster, but chain stops because after 1 CE other minions do not have low enough life yet, they should be nailed by merc further to get a second corpse. This is obviously not a problem if you manage to nail the attacked minion right away. By doing this random target and simply casting, my idea is to get minion down to 50% hp and by then merc kills his minion. Upon starting CE this way, chain usually does not stop at all since second minion has low enough HP to be killed by CE-ing the first minion. Also, that playing style is much simpler than constantly looking to aim toward the right target with similarlish runtimes anyway.

    Here is a video demonstration of ~21.5 s p3 running with Travincal boner. Managed to do 50 runs in sub 22s average, but problem is one boss turns stone skin aka physically immune, and he is too tough to be killed with spear or CE, so you skip 1 minion like once in 5 runs or so. Still, this is quite irrelevant anyway. Tests were done on a sorc's map.



    Skills:
    1 Amplify
    1 Clay Golem
    1 Golem Mastery
    1 Summon resistances or whatever it is called
    1 Bone Armor
    20 all relevant skills to pump Bone Spear to maximum
    2 CE (had 1 extra skill point)

    Gear:
    2/20/Topaz circlet
    2/10/[email protected] amulet
    Enigma
    Hoto
    Spirit
    Arach
    Hellmouth gloves (fire absorb)
    beta bkwb + Wisp projector rings
    30frw/high lite/cold/fire res boots with 10 MF

    5 skillers
    3x 7mf SC, 2x life res SC
    Total MF: 170 (cool!)

    Merc:
    1.07 eth GPA Insight
    eth CoH
    eth Steelshade (Cham)


    I assume poison variant should do similarly fast, but I will see that upon test.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  2. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    Respeced to poisonnec. He is slighty stronger than boner, and also more relaxing to play. Overall nec turned to be much better Travincal farmer than I expected.

    [​IMG]

    What I tested:

    Infinity vs Insight
    Result: very similar, practically no difference, though with Infinity it is easier to spot that physical immune boss there, but with Insight merc does give corpse slightly faster. Nothing to win over Infinity though. I do use Infinity, but Insight is just so good and easy to use...

    Iron Golem reliable?
    Result: he didn't die in 200 runs I tested, so... once you max golem mastery, he is decent tank. Only thing you have to watch out for are fanaticism + migth packs. I made mine from IK maul.

    Gear used:
    1.13 Shako (Cham)
    Web + facet
    The Rising Sun
    Enigma
    Spirit
    Arachnid
    Trang Claws
    fcr mpk from 1.07
    Wisp projector
    resist/frw/MF boots

    5 skillers
    Merc: Infinity + CoH + Steelshade (Cham)

    Why Cham Shako? Because it is annoying to be slowed by chilling effect when you go back and run toward portal. Necro does not have telekinesis to solve that problem. So, Cham speeds you up more than facet. Actually facet is irrelevant here.

    Long term average:
    I expect easy sub 21s running is possible

    Sub 20s possible?
    On a short run, yes. For anything else I'd have to make Insight golem from eth elite polearm to see what kind of advantage does it give. Perhaps I can test that too these days.

    EDIT
    Curse used is Amplify, NOT Lower Resist!
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2017
  3. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    def try insight golem :D

    Then you can swap out other stuff for more skills, maybe?
     
  4. Espr

    Espr IncGamers Member

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    I ran trav with a poisonmancer for a bit a couple years ago. I didn't take any data, but the big takeaway I remember from the experience is that it felt very safe without any particular effort to make it so.
     
  5. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    If I use Insight golem, then I can use beta BKWB. Though it is pretty irrelevant on the skill front while golem gaining such nice dps could be excellent to have.

    I'm thinking about third necro variant too. Maxed PN, but 1 pt Golem Mastery + usage of Clay golem, 1 pt Amplify, dual BKWB instead of Wisp, Insight merc and putting all remaining points to Bone Spear. Result would be 16% stronger Nova and additional dps from Bonespear (~1500 damage), but losing damage from IG, and he does ok damage to provide second corpse faster. I do wonder would such change mean anything at all. But, potential is either in Insight golem or that hybrid necro variant. Now I practically have nothing to do with necro for 2-3 seconds when merc is killing his stuff. Spear could provide extra 10k damage in this time if I spam it, only question is does IG provide more dps than that. Made out of Insight he definitely should.
     
  6. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    hey good idea. Also, more pts from BKWB gives sturdier golem, too, if you decide to do it.
     
  7. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    HC untwinked isn't my style. I'd go fully twinked SC, and still think it'd be quite a challenge. I imagine getting through Act bosses and Ancients in all difficulties would be very difficult.
     
  8. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    I have thought about a similar set-up for clvl 98->99 with a necro vs. Nihl. Dim Vision during casting of bone spear, then switch to Amp + CE for a CE'ing slugfest until Nihl dies. Nice example.
     
  9. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    I think preliminary testing and theorycrafting showed bone spear/spirit necro is about the same speed at PN/CE spam necro vs nihl. Ofc with the CE variant it is less safe (watch out for arach corpses in particular) but also you get way more drops and an extra sliver of exp.

    I'd love to see more thorough testing, though.
     
  10. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    I've performed 3 more tests, though short ones (30 runs).

    Elite Insight golem + additional 4 all skills on gear
    No improvement at all. Reason is golem does not kill faster than merc, he just weakens second corpse faster, but PNova does that already, so influence of this golem in damage is insignificant and impossible to see at all. As for aura bonus + 4 skills, those are the only things that could make a difference, but since it is PNova we talk about here and since its damage bonus from +4 skills is only ~16% extra and since its only function is to weaken other minions so they are killed by CE provided by merc, those extra skills mean nothing but to give you slightly more life and make golem 1% sturdier.

    Arioc's Needle golem
    Another test just to confirm that Insight golem does not provide improvement in runningtimes. And yes, confirmed similar runtimes as with Insight golem.

    Beast main weapon instead of Web + elite Insight golem
    In theory, Beast should provide corpses faster by speeding up your merc. Did it work? Well... first corpse was indeed faster, but second was slower than with Web and stronger PNova. In fact this variant made me slightly slower (~0.3 seconds) and I couldn't really beat typical Web variant. Obviously faster first corpse is not the only thing that matters, but also the speed at which chain starts. PNova does provide slightly slower first corpse, but minions are weakened enough to have really fast CE chain to kill them all once first minion is dead. Not the case with Beast I'm afraid. It was quite similar at the cow level while testing summoner vs Nova variant. Faster first corpse, but slower chain start.

    So, I don't think I can manage sub 20s running. All my tests ended right between 20.1 and 20.7 seconds, but doing sub 20 was only a matter of a few runs, not anything maintainable.
     
  11. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    How about white runeword, and using bone spirit instead? Also, crushing blow works with golems, so maybe something like IK maul golem or double-upped bonesnap golem? Or eth upped hone sundan "BerBerBer" ;)

    EDIT: Or something like Crescent Moon golem, for static proc?
     
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  12. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    @helvete

    Thank you for suggestions.

    Bone spirit - big problem is it is single target and Spear hits 3-4 targets at once and does way more damage than Spirit. Spirit simply has too little advantage in damage to be of any use in Travincal instead of Spear.

    IK Maul - tried it, but nature of golem is pretty much to weaken second minion enough for it to die from CE you do on a minion killed by merc. That was also true for damage powerhouse like Insight, golem simply couldn't kill minion before merc and at that point it is pretty irrelevant what kind of weapon do you use as long as second minion is weak enough for it to be killed by first CE, and that is true even if IG is not used at all.

    CM - solid idea, but probably too expensive to be used with possibly little benefit in the end. Either golem does static during first hit or it is pretty irrelevant, so once in 5 runs this could help you get corpses faster.

    What I didn't try is Beast golem + full PN with Web. That should be strongest option possible, but I'm not sure would anyone actually consider making IG from Beast for Travincal to get... don't know how much faster runs. I must test this.
     
  13. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    you MUST. But you have to make IG invincible and never switch from the build unless you want to make us cry from the wasted ber rune.
     
  14. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

    I made Iron Golem out of my PvP Beast. It is mediocre roll and I did plan on rolling it one day, so I might as well do something useful with it. If I made IG from eth ATMA bugged Grief for cownec, I think this is even better investment in comparison. Normally I'll look to roll a good Travmap for this necro. With it I lose my PvP nec, but there is no PvP going on at all, so whatever.
    Code:
    Beast
    Berserker Axe
    BerTirUmMalLum
    One Hand Damage: 143 - 421
    Indestructible
    Required Level: 64
    Required Strength: 128
    Required Dexterity: 49
    Fingerprint: 0x2ba0abe8
    Item Level: 87
    Version: Expansion
    Level 9 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
    +40% Increased Attack Speed
    298% Enhanced Damage
    20% Chance of Crushing Blow
    25% Chance of Open Wounds
    Prevent Monster Heal
    +3 to Werebear
    +3 to Lycanthropy
    +34 to Strength
    +10 to Energy
    +2 to Mana after each Kill
    Level 13 Summon Grizzly (5/5 Charges)
    Ethereal
    5 Sockets (5 used)
    Socketed: Ber Rune
    Socketed: Tir Rune
    Socketed: Um Rune
    Socketed: Mal Rune
    Socketed: Lum Rune
    

    It served me well and I think it deserved to be transformed into Iron Golem.

    Result of testing on 100 runs
    Items picked up: Rals, Sols, all jewels, small and grand charms, unique jewelry, flawless amethysts
    [​IMG]

    Dat fastest run... I had 4 runs below 17s in total.


    I tried to record a great ~19s Travrunning video with him, but I have failed, sadly. This video will have to do:
    ~18.5s running. Cuz ~19 was way too slow.


    Conclusion:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now I accept all the tears because of Beast golem. Agreed.
     
  15. Pb_pal

    Pb_pal IncGamers Member

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    That is both beautiful and absolutely horrifying.
     
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  16. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    wait what p setting?
     
  17. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    3 as always.
     
  18. Yann

    Yann IncGamers Member

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    I'm not exactly the resident necro expert, so this is more of a question than anything backed up by experience: if we're making ridiculous iron golems - how about making an infinity golem, using beast on the necro and giving the merc a better hurt stick like obedience (huge damage, 40% cb, I know you lose a corspe every now and then due to cold damage)?
     
  19. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    That is a good question.

    First reason - Infinity golem is twice as expensive than Beast golem.

    Second reason - Web is used for a reason because strong Nova makes much faster chain CE possible. Removing Web you nearly kill whole purpose of using Nova in the first place. With Web it takes down minion's HP almost by half in 4 seconds. Using Beast their HP drops only by 1/5 after 4 seconds which is pretty low help in creating faster corpses that way. This is exactly the reason why my test with Beast instead of Web didn't deliver - I simply had to wait for too long for that second corpse and then third etc.

    Third reason - Obedience's cold damage is almost dealbreaker. While it is only 1/5 chance to shatter corpse, you still need merc to kill 2 creeps per run which means this shatter will influence every third of your runs. In the end question is would that speed you up because of Obedience damage or slow you down because of corpse shatter. Something tells me it will slow you down and annoy you.
    Also, speaking of hurty sticks, I'd never use anything else than an Insight. Once I calculated that Insight offers comparable dps to Obedience because of that massive +6 critical strike which makes Insight possibly most damaging weapon for merc. I know it outdamages everything except Obedience which is similarly strong, but still cold damage is a dealbreaker here + meditation aura = Insight easily best stick for the merc. What really sticks out at Obedience is that 40% FHR since mercs have terrible FHR breakpoints and I don't know could that make it more hurty than Insight. But again, cold damage... For the same reason I wouldn't make Obedience golem. I don't know does cold damage work on him, but if it does, no thx etc.

    Overall, proposed combo would still not be any stronger than what you can achieve by Beast golem. In fact, I'm not sure would I be able to go sub 20s with that setup, having weak Nova is a big deal after all as my tests have shown. Also, losing Infinity golem due to some random death... even I am not that rich to afford that. While Beast is fine by my standards. Simply too expensive and less powerful option is to go for an Infinity golem, even if we assume million of Bers in stash.
     
  20. Yann

    Yann IncGamers Member

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    I used obedience on a summon nec pre-1.13 rune drop rates and did fine with it, don't remember having issues with the cold damage, although for that CE chain the merc was obviously mostly poking monsters that were weaker than council members.

    Did you factor in the 40% cb of obedience when comparing it with insight? I'm guessing you did, just making sure.

    I wouldn't use an infinity golem either, simply too expensive like you pointed out, was just theorycrafting. There are no random deaths for me though, death is death in HC :) Or did you mean golem randomly dying
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017

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