Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Any interest in a PvP tourney?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by kabal, Mar 31, 2005.

  1. kabal

    kabal IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Any interest in a PvP tourney?

    PvP seems to have returned to the SPF recently with semi-regular duel games in the MP thread and the Ironman tournament, so I was wondering if there would be enough interested participants for me to host a PvP tournament.

    These are some of my preliminary thoughts and ideas at the moment, assuming there's enough interest:

    -Tournament won't take place for at least another 3 weeks. This should give people time to scrap together some gear, get some practice in, or build a new character if they wish.

    -High level dueling; there's no minimum level requirement, but generally speaking anyone under level 80 is at a pretty big disadvantage.

    -Characters have to conform to the PvP rules posted on the forum a while back. I don't have the link to it but I'm sure someone does.

    -Duels will be best of 5, 1v1 in the NM Blood Moor. I would like to see an elimination style tournament (think NCAA playoffs), but depending on the number of people a round robin system with points may be better.

    -I would prefer not to have a tourney where one or two people just steamroll everyone, but due to the nature of high level PvP that's what happens a lot of the time. Any ideas on what can be done to alleviate this problem?

    On the subject of prizes, there's a few options. Ideally the prize would be something worthwhile to entice people to participate and play well. The most obvious answer would be a collection of rare and powerful elite items (something on the level of Windforce or above, for example) that would be divided among the top finishers. I wouldn't have a problem putting my Death's Web or Schaefer's up for grabs, but I'd still need some extremely generous prize donations to make this work. I could make an entry fee, but I think that 99% of the SPF would balk at joining a tourney in which they could lose their WF or something. Realistically for this option to happen, interest in the tourney would probably have to approach the level of interest for the MFO, and I don't think that'll be the case.

    Another option would be a novelty prize, which could potentially be the best option. I don't have any ideas just yet, so input on this would be appreciated.

    Finally, there could be no prize (or at least a much less valuable prize like a p.gem stash or crafthing supplies) and people would play for pride. I'd still play, but I don't know if anyone else would find the tourney worthwhile then
     
  2. Sint Nikolaas

    Sint Nikolaas IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,937
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    256
    If you need any help hosting this, drop me a PM :)

    ''Mil & Sam'' :buddies:
     
  3. corax

    corax IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    15,690
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    350
    sounds like fun. However i shan't participate as i only have dialup and a crappy pc. otherwise i would.

    However i'd be happy to donate a small stash of items for a prize. as well as create a prize belt. :D
     
  4. skoolbus

    skoolbus IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,278
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    255
    I'll do it, I'd prefer the cheap/no prize one, because I dont want to give up my only tc87 my WF

    Now I just need you and sleep to lvl my guy past 75 and I can beat you :p

    also, can you consider banning TGods? because that makes any lightning build unwinnable
     
  5. corax

    corax IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    15,690
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    350
    these rules?
     
  6. skoolbus

    skoolbus IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,278
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    255
    The rules are here, Tgods is allowed, but it's seriously the best item in pvp

    dueling rules

    Since I could beat lvl 90s when I was 73, image what happens when I get to 83 :eek:

    Sleepless!!! I'm gonna need your help here lol
     
  7. kabal

    kabal IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    @Sint - Any help hosting would be greatly appreciated, I'll be sure to contact you when/if the tourney gets finalized. I know you used to PvP a lot back in the day, so maybe you'd consider coming out of retirement and joining in on the fun too. ;)

    @corax - Can you MP in general? From my experience if you can handle a Hell Baal run, you can handle a PvP game. I'd hate for you to donate some nice items as prizes without the opportunity to win them back.

    @skoolbus - If you can't give a WF, how about a Stormlash instead? It's only a TC 78...;) Seriously though, I'm not about to make an tourney that requires an entry fee of a TC 87, that'd just be stupid. If I decide to go with the uber prize pack, people can still enter for free, although I would encourage them to spare some nice items for the prize pot if they can. On the subject of Tgods, I have no intention of banning it since by itself it doesn't really qualify as excessive absorb. I see a reasonable amount of absorb as a weakness of single element builds, rather than something that provides an unfair advantage.
     
  8. Sint Nikolaas

    Sint Nikolaas IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,937
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    256
    I don't even have internet at my own pc ;) I'll awaitr your pm and help out, it'll be good to take a break from all the serious buisness :)

    ''Mil & Sam'' :buddies:
     
  9. corax

    corax IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    15,690
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    350
    i can, but i get pretty badly desynched after a few PvP's and then it messes with everyone else too. so im out. but would still be happy to make a prize stash
     
  10. Fafner

    Fafner IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    No Chaos/WW assassins!?!

    *awesome-O voice*

    Lame. Weak. Super Lame.
    ----

    Although it pry doesn't matter that they're banned since maybe only 10 or so exist in the SPF.
     
  11. kabal

    kabal IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    AFAIK, the no off class skills stipulation is meant to exclude CtA but the way it's worded would mean that ww-sins are excluded as well. That set of rules is a bit outdated, so I'll make some changes to it for the tourney. I see no reason as to why ww-sins should be banned, and there's at least one ww-sin on these forums that's very effective in pvp.
     
  12. skoolbus

    skoolbus IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,278
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    255
    ok, I have some tc 70-80 items I can donate, I will go and find an arguement for the banning of TGods, I have read it, and I'll post it here as soon as I find it
     
  13. Sleepless

    Sleepless IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Count me in for a PvP tournament.

    1. I can host some game if you want.

    2. About tgod. It's not the only problem. I suggest that GA can't be used with an item that absorb by a specific amount not a pourcentage (i.e hellmouth, tgod). GA dramiticly reduce the damage and tgod make it worthless though wisp isn't a bit deal because it reduce your damage but at least you don't heal your ennemy heh.

    3. I vote for a low prize (i.e a stash of Pruby for crafting blood glove :D )
     
  14. RoidRage

    RoidRage IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    62
    I would participate in the Pvp tournament :p :p

    As for the prize, I wouldn't mind giving away a TC8X as long as I'm not the only one. It would encourage more people to play. I would suggest not to accept people with no post in it since high level items would be involved and nobody want a hacker to go away with a prize stash containing a death's web, schaeffer's .......

    As for that:

    I think players should not be allowed to switch equip during the tournament. I hate dueling a char with Raven frost + gear to have way too much CR. I remember playing agaisnt SLEEPLESS ;) and his smiter. My 7.6-7.9k blizz was hitting him for 100. That means It would take about 15 blizz to kill him :rolleyes:
     
  15. Sleepless

    Sleepless IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    PWND. Hehe, he was right beside me when he wrote this, i was almost rolling on the floor laughting :D
     
  16. skoolbus

    skoolbus IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,278
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    255
    ok, here it is, this is why TGod should be banned...

    the short summary is, if I do 4800 lightning damage against someone who is wearing a TGod and has 95% lightning res they get NO damage

    Since PvP Penalty reduces all Damage to 1/6, then we can assume that with every point of Resistance, we are reducing 1/6 * 0.01 = 1/600 of our opponent's Elemental Damage. So, in another word, every 5% Resist is equivalent to -1/120 of your opponent's damage.

    95% LR ====> 1/120
    90% LR ====> 1/60
    85% LR ====> 1/40
    80% LR ====> 1/30
    75% LR ====> 1/24

    If someone is wearing TGods and has these lightning resistances, you must do
    95%LR: 120*40=4800 damage
    90%LR: 60*40 =2400
    85%LR: 40*40=1600
    80%LR: 30*40=1200
    75%LR: 24*40=960

    that much damage so you arent healing them


    ----------------Here is another example-----------------

    Suppose our Trapper opponent has a LS damage of 1-10800 (lvl45/20/20/20)
    Then from the equations above we can see that, when LS deals 4800 damage and under, you either suffer no loss of life or gains life. anything above 4800 to 10800 will result in loss of life.

    Since we are using 95% Light Resist, then we have onlyevery increment of 120 light damage will result in a increase of 1 final damage dealt. So we can dissect 8-10800 into 90 groups. They are:

    0, 120, 240, 360, 480, ....., 4800, 4920, ...., 10800

    0 - 4800 contains 40 such numbers, and they give 0, 1, 2, 3, ....20, 19, ...., 3, 2, 1, 0 lifes. so they give a total of 400 life.

    4920 - 10800 contains 50 numbers, whereas they dealt from 1, 2, 3, ....47, 48, 49, 50 damage so we have a total of 1275 loss of life here...

    Now using elemental Statstics, we can derive the mean loss of life per Light Sentry blast is:

    (1275-400)/90 = 9.7222222222

    So when dueling repeatedly with a Trapper with over 10k LS damage, you can assume overall that every Light Sentry will do 9.72 damage per hit if the damage output of LS traps are normally distributed.

    The second example is to show a real life example of how TGods makes a duel very unfair. Personally, I think that TGods is way more unfair than using Marrowwalks for a synergy, which I might add is a "feature" that blizzard "intended" to make :rolleyes:
     
  17. skoolbus

    skoolbus IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Messages:
    2,278
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    255
    for those of you who dont know what "TGods" are and their almighty cheapness, I will show you...

    Thundergod's Vigor
    War Belt
    Defense: 137-159 (varies)(Base Defense: 41-52)
    Required Level: 47
    Required Strength: 110
    Durability: 24
    16 Boxes
    +160-200% Enhanced Defense (varies)
    Adds 1-50 Lightning Damage
    5% Chance To Cast Level 7 Fist Of The Heavens When Struck
    +20 Lightning Absorb
    10% To Maximum Lightning Resist
    +20 To Strength
    +20 To Vitality
    +3 To Lightning Fury (Amazon Only)
    +3 To Lightning Strike (Amazon Only)
    (Only Spawns In Patch 1.09 or later)
     
  18. kabal

    kabal IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    @skoolbus - you can make a case for GA + Tgods, since GA + Tgods leads to more lightning damage reduction than Wisp + Tgods. If Tgods is banned, it sets a precedent for all absorb items to be banned. I would agree that 85 resist and 20 absorb screws over a paladin with only FoH (limiting them to ~50-75 per shot from personal experience, trappers and other lightning based characters still do a healthy chunk), and for that reason I think that a pure FoH'er is not viable as a pvp character. Part of pvp'ing is character planning and knowing the character's limitations and weaknesses, and I don't think that the rules should be changed to cover for the weakness of one particular build. To make an extreme example, it would be silly for me to make a naked punching sorc and then ask that all equipment and spells be banned that I can be competitive. I will consider banning the simultaneous use of GA and Tgods, this is actually something Liquid_Evil and I have discussed before.

    @RoidRage - I was going to have the participants sign up in a thread here at the SPF, although there may be people from other forums that are interested in the tourney also. I can't mention where these other forums are, but I can vouch for the legitness of their players. About gear swaps, I was going to allow people to change their gear prior to the start of the best of 5 series, and then in between games of the series they may make one more gear change. All gear swaps must be carried in the character's inventory or stash (i.e. no leaving during a duel to mule on items via ATMA).

    Edit: Lemming said what I wanted to say, except I didn't want to come off as rude. :p

    Edit 2: skoolbus, even if you max FoH and the Holy Shock aura along with a level 25 conviction, that still leaves another ~35 skill points for a backup attack (smite is popular). If you also used 20 points in the Holy Bolt synergy, however, I suggest you retire your character from PvP and make him a pindle runner. ;)
     
  19. corax

    corax IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    Messages:
    15,690
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    350
    not at all nubi. I agree aswell. if your char can only do one type of damage then you'll be an uber powered 1337 killer until someone comes along with the right gear. then you are uber nubbie.


    what the hell i'm in. might aswell seeing as im sponsoring some of it anyway
     
  20. kabal

    kabal IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,946
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    @nubby - not really, but I didn't want to risk it. As the host, it's my job to be exceedingly polite :p

    On the topic of competitive balance and elimination brackets vs. round robin point system:

    The problem with the round robin point system is "pointless duels". Winning by 100 points is the same as winning by 1 point, so once someone clinches the win by having a lead over the second place person that is mathematically insurmountable the rest of the duels become pointless.

    With an elimination bracket, however, the weaker duelists would most likely be eliminated immediately and I'm not sure if that's what I want, since I want this tourney to be an enjoyable experience for everyone to encourage more dueling. If we pair up all the stronger duelists together, it makes for a very anticlimactic final, with the strongest of the strong against whoever happened to make it through the "weak" bracket. In the interest of having ncreasingly competitive matches as the tourney progresses, it's best that the weaker competition be eliminated early. Obviously there's a dilemma here...

    The only solution I can think of is to have a brief round robin session to determine seedings, this way everyone gets a chance to duel everyone else. Once the seedings are determined, the tournament proceeds to an elimination bracket with the highest seed paired against the lowest seed, second highest against second lowest, and so on.
     

Share This Page