Another runeword question thread (Beast)

Codoh

Diabloii.Net Member
To make it short, about to make Beast runeword. For..
Necro, i want my skeletons and w/e else i summon to hit faster and destroy stuff.
Sorceress, bear something ...someones thread made me want to make one...
Other uses: anything else i guess...you tell me...

Question is: what base? sofar Berserker axe wins ....cuz of reasons...feel free to change my mind....

PS: i feel like I'm abusing this forum sometimes because after 20 seconds of googling my questions i just end up asking here... :oops:
 

japanzaman

Diabloii.Net Member
Berserker ax wins for the extra range adder and overall damage output. However, if you were making it solely for a summoner, the best choice would be the weapon that needs the least strength. If you plan on running with Enigma, it probably won't matter, though.
 

BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
I can't really speak to other uses, but I made a dual dream bear sorc and posted a Mat thread recently. If you are OK with ATMA bugging, you can use an eth BA, which will lower the strength requirement from 138 to 128. I also trade for a 1.07 base, which adds an extra 50% damage at the top. The result looks like this:
Code:
Beast
Berserker Axe
BerTirUmMalLum
One Hand Damage: 148 - 436
Indestructible
Required Level: 64
Required Strength: 128
Required Dexterity: 49
Fingerprint: 0x45118ced
Item Level: 87
Version: Expansion
Level 9 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
+40% Increased Attack Speed
312% Enhanced Damage
20% Chance of Crushing Blow
25% Chance of Open Wounds
Prevent Monster Heal
+3 to Werebear
+3 to Lycanthropy
+37 to Strength
+10 to Energy
+2 to Mana after each Kill
Level 13 Summon Grizzly (5/5 Charges)
Ethereal
5 Sockets (5 used)
Socketed: Ber Rune
Socketed: Tir Rune
Socketed: Um Rune
Socketed: Mal Rune
Socketed: Lum Rune

This is nice for Dual Dream Bear Sorceress as having it on switch yields nice damage, and is thus a great solution for the dual immunes. If you don't ATMA bug, then BA is still probably the most versatile base. Many of my characters use Spirit anyway, so the strength requirement isn't so much an issue.

Really, I mostly used it on switch, however, so ultimately it wouldn't have made a huge change in gameplay if I made it in another base. Normal BA would have worked just fine since I used Spirit on switch with it and had to have 156 str anyway. Dual immunes are few and far between and the merc can take them out easily since he will be likely be using eth Infinity with ample crushing blow.
 
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Codoh

Diabloii.Net Member
Yep, enigma is something ill be using mostly. Even on sorc I go with monarch spirits mostly, so i pump in enough strenght even without enigma. My sorc runs with tal'rasha set.

I'm in. How do I atma-bug? :D
 

Naturallog

Diabloii.Net Member
This thread explains ATMA bugging better than I can, also every other trick for boosting your weapons and armors as much as you can.

Beast will be a little underwhelming on a summon necro. The minions have a delay between attacks, so while they execute each attack faster they still pause between them, which wastes most of their time between attacks. The fanatacism speed increase is hardly noticeable, but the extra damage and attack helps.
 

BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
The complete guide can be viewed here, but just to explain quickly: when a weapon runeword is made with the indestructible mod (Death, Oath, or Zodded), if it is moved around in the stash and saved with ATMA, the indestrucible mod becomes permanent. The runeword or Zod can then be Hel-ed out, the indestructible mod remains, and then you can use it for whatever you want.
Death RW (5 sockets) can bug things like Beast and Grief.
Oath (4 sockets) can bug Kingslayer, Passion, etc.
Zod can bug anything.

So, it's not without cost, as you are spending the runes for both Death and Beast.

Note that while ATMA-bugging is permissible via the SPF Trade Rules, many members do not partake or view the practice as cheesy/cheating. You can read the reasoning behind allowance in the guide I linked above.

I view it as the quite small reward I get for playing single-player that certainly doesn't offset the loss or Torch and Anni charms. :D
 
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BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
ATMA bugging mostly just gives a few builds a slight edge, or makes some novelty builds possible. Vengeance sorceress is one of them: Kingslayer is just not very damaging, and since on weapon damage is all that matters for calculating Vengeance damage, you really need to use a big two-hander to get some nice damage. I like making 2 handed sorcs around huge ATMA-bugged 1.07 Glorious Axes. Two I've made:

Kingslayer for my Vengeance Sorc:
Passion for my Titan Berserker / Zealer Sorc:
 
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Codoh

Diabloii.Net Member
Okay so I could technically make a death runeword, remove the runes from the item after i moved it around with atma, and than the item becomes inderstructible. After that I can go ahead and make my beast. Sounds like a plan.
 

helvete

Diabloii.Net Member
Just a warning about necros and fanaticism aura. Two, actually.

First off, skeletons have a 15 frame cooldown between each (10 frame I think) attack. This cooldown isn't affected by fanaticism at all, only the 10 attack frames are, which makes fanat a much less appealing aura.

Second, fanat only gives half its damage to allies not owning the aura. This, combined with the fact that it just adds to the %damage of the skill Raise Skeleton, NOT multiplying the "base" damage of each skeleton, makes for a lot less damage than expected.


I found I killed faster just casting curses and CE faster. Mercs with Obedience or some other big damage but slow weapons might (pun intended) have a decent benefit from fanat though.
 

Codoh

Diabloii.Net Member
Voila! Worked out quite well. Decent roll aswell. Now I could have waited to get a 1.07 base but I just cant be bothered with bargaining. They cant use my 1.13 stuff if they not playing it...Screenshot070.jpg
 

Codoh

Diabloii.Net Member
At the end of the day it wasnt that much about building the necro...I played my summoner in the past and it was okay. I actually found my first Lo rune with my necro as a summoner. Beast was something I wanted to make since then...

Thanks everyone for the advice. :p
 

BBS_Agonistes

Diabloii.Net Member
That's a sexy Beast!

You probably didn't notice since I posted the GoMule readout, which is screwed up by the 50% extra top end damage from the 1.07 base, but you rolled the exact same damage roll as I did: 262%. *Twilight Zone music plays in background*
 

Darkthrone

Diabloii.Net Member
Just a warning about necros and fanaticism aura. Two, actually.

First off, skeletons have a 15 frame cooldown between each (10 frame I think) attack. This cooldown isn't affected by fanaticism at all, only the 10 attack frames are, which makes fanat a much less appealing aura.

Second, fanat only gives half its damage to allies not owning the aura. This, combined with the fact that it just adds to the %damage of the skill Raise Skeleton, NOT multiplying the "base" damage of each skeleton, makes for a lot less damage than expected.


I found I killed faster just casting curses and CE faster. Mercs with Obedience or some other big damage but slow weapons might (pun intended) have a decent benefit from fanat though.
Didn't want to create a whole new thread and thought this one was pretty relevant...

I'm currently using an Arm of King Leoric for my skellymancer but have toyed with the idea of making a Beast for him; however, replacing the Arm would mean losing a number of +skills and therefore losing some skeletons and making the remaining ones weaker. Would you say that I would actually do more damage with the Arm vs. Beast? I'm eventually going to be putting a Pride on my mercenary once I grab a few more runes, and thought it would be cool to stack Might + Concentration + Fanaticism.
 

Ergroilnin

Diabloii.Net Member
Why not use arm as a prebuff when summoning the skellies? They can take a LOT so it's not like you need to resummon them all the time. Not to mention the wand only takes 2 places in inventory/cube so you can pretty easily keep it there while having Beast on main and CTA on switch.
 

Codoh

Diabloii.Net Member
Okay so...in theory..which is better on a merc when one has a giant army summoned, Infinity or Pride? what keeps me preocupied (im not a math guy..) is that with the merc having lower damage because of pride, getting the CE chain going will take time..
 

pharphis

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
infinity = CB + -fres for enemies which will make you require less corpses for a CE chain
 

Darkthrone

Diabloii.Net Member
Why not use arm as a prebuff when summoning the skellies? They can take a LOT so it's not like you need to resummon them all the time. Not to mention the wand only takes 2 places in inventory/cube so you can pretty easily keep it there while having Beast on main and CTA on switch.
It is possible I guess, but I will lose one or two skeletons when I make the switch since my Raise Skeleton skill level will drop by 5. I already lose a couple skeletons when I switch from my Arm + Zombie Head (+3 Raise Skeleton, +1 Skeleton Mastery) to Call to Arms + Spirit.

Here's a question for the experts: since changing the Arm makes your Raise Skeleton level drop and therefore lose one or two skeletons, does it also retroactively lower the remaining skeletons' hit points, damage, etc., either through a less Raise Skeleton lever and/or a lower Skeleton Mastery level?

Okay so...in theory..which is better on a merc when one has a giant army summoned, Infinity or Pride? what keeps me preocupied (im not a math guy..) is that with the merc having lower damage because of pride, getting the CE chain going will take time..
If you have a large army then corpses shouldn't be a problem. ~15 skeletons + Amplify Damage + Might from your mercenary = lots of dead monsters, even on 8 players.

It is no question though that Infinity is cheaper than Pride (and more versatile). I currently use Infinity on my mercenary but I don't find it necessary and quite honestly don't really notice a difference with my skeletons' killing speed; they seem just as fast now as when I was using Insight (which has now taken the form of an Iron Golem).

Personally I don't really use Corpse Explosion as I prefer to teleport around and telestomp my enemies. I only have points in it because I don't really have anything else to put them in. That's just a personal preference though, and with a bunch of +skills items you really only need a couple points. I do use it from time to time though as it IS fun to blow up the screen.
 

pharphis

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
It is possible I guess, but I will lose one or two skeletons when I make the switch since my Raise Skeleton skill level will drop by 5. I already lose a couple skeletons when I switch from my Arm + Zombie Head (+3 Raise Skeleton, +1 Skeleton Mastery) to Call to Arms + Spirit.

Here's a question for the experts: since changing the Arm makes your Raise Skeleton level drop and therefore lose one or two skeletons, does it also retroactively lower the remaining skeletons' hit points, damage, etc., either through a less Raise Skeleton lever and/or a lower Skeleton Mastery level?


If you have a large army then corpses shouldn't be a problem. ~15 skeletons + Amplify Damage + Might from your mercenary = lots of dead monsters, even on 8 players.

It is no question though that Infinity is cheaper than Pride (and more versatile). I currently use Infinity on my mercenary but I don't find it necessary and quite honestly don't really notice a difference with my skeletons' killing speed; they seem just as fast now as when I was using Insight (which has now taken the form of an Iron Golem).

Personally I don't really use Corpse Explosion as I prefer to teleport around and telestomp my enemies. I only have points in it because I don't really have anything else to put them in. That's just a personal preference though, and with a bunch of +skills items you really only need a couple points. I do use it from time to time though as it IS fun to blow up the screen.
I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Same for golems. As an aside, I don't think losing 1-3 skeletons will reduce your dps much at all.

Ofc if you don't focus on getting 1-2 corpses and then chaining CEs then maybe that 1-2 skeletons is way more important for you than it would be for me (same goes for use of infinity boosting CE dmg)
 

zaphodbrx

Diabloii.Net Member
Beast is extremely powerful for summon necro. And please, it's not for the skeletons, its for the merc.

Other than that you also need Beast for any Bear character. And its a decent weapon as well, though can be underwelming in a non eth-bugged base.
 
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