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Another one bites the dust: If you can't beat them, join them der=

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by xyzthorakzyx, Jul 1, 2005.

  1. xyzthorakzyx

    xyzthorakzyx IncGamers Member

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    Another one bites the dust: If you can't beat them, join them

    I was out adventuring with my character. Then suddenly I am swarmed by monsters. But out of nowehere there comes a paladin and suddenly there is a swarm of hammers and all monsters are dead. I then remade the character, again and again to try and get a char that at least has the same power as the hammerdin, I am sad to say, I failed.

    I have teared my hair out in frustration (almost no hair left now) to try and made a char that is as powerful, flexibel and survivable as a hammerdin but I just can't do it. So I have finally decided to join the dark side and make a hamemrdin on my own.

    Please tell me if there is anotehr char that can endlessly spam the same thing again and again, tank on his own and still kill enemies really effectively. I am about to lose hope...
     
  2. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

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    I'm not sure, but a poison (or bone) + summon necromancer might be able to.
     
  3. FreezerBurn

    FreezerBurn Banned

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    nothing is as overpowered as a hammerdin
     
  4. Leohappy

    Leohappy IncGamers Member

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    True :). Designers forgot to increase monster magic resistance it seems. Other than that, javazon with really good gear can do a lot of damage also (esp. in cow level). Bone necro is strong also, not to mention sorcs.

    But yeah,
    Welcome to the dark side :D.
     
  5. Dawnmaster

    Dawnmaster IncGamers Member

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    Don't forget the 150% damage to undead monsters... In Hell everything is treated undead or demonlike iirc.
     
  6. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    don't worry about the tanking part, that's all equipment. there's a thread in the pally forum right now (started by me) about how pally's actually get beat up more than other classes, especially by undead. imho, around 90% of that protection comes from high resist shield and max block from holy shield most often with HoZ.

    the offense part is a lot from bh's bonus to undead and demons, which not only includes the damage bonus, but also the fact that vs bh all monsters have 0 resistance, so essentially 1 hammer is doing quadruple or more damage. every other skill with the same, double or even triple the displayed damage of hammers doesn't do as much.

    i've been around a lot of bad hammerdins who couldn't even get through act2 hell solo. i've also seen countless of them drop dead in seconds upon entering a throneroom tp. imho, they're all built around HoZ, Hoto, and Enigma. take any of those away, and they'll be crapola.

    however, there is hope. crushing blow is the great equalizer, making just about every other class as good as or better than a hammerdin. another is magic damage from say berzerk. while berzerk doesn't get the bonus to undead/demons, it still gets the same 0% resists. some ideas i'm working on:

    berzerk barb
    magic arrow zon
    crushing blow ww barb (already done, works really well.)
    crushing blow strafazon (solo'd dclone.)
    crushing blow jabbazon
     
  7. itsPizzarific

    itsPizzarific Banned

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    a godly necro summoner would give it a run for its money. especially if you used prebuff to summon. the damage of each skelly multiplies pretty crazily at higher levels. and then fana from the beast caddy you're wearing (;)), and then conc/might from your nm a2 offensive merc with pride. =o and why not thorns from bramble too. kk, enough pwn? O_O
     
  8. mhl12

    mhl12 IncGamers Member

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    Sorcs are still pretty good. You just have to watch out for resists. That's where your merc and infinity comes in if you're on ladder.
     
  9. xyzthorakzyx

    xyzthorakzyx IncGamers Member

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    Summon necro: tried it, IM got too annoying. Rather slow killing also especially in games with many players.

    Poison necro: Poison immunes and IM too annoying. Kills slowly also.

    Haven't tried bone but I can't see why it would be better than the 2 above mentioned.

    Superhal: I had a hammerdin without those items last reset and I could still solo Ball. I used vipermagi, a +2 skills pala shield that reminded a little of HoZ (it was worse though) and wizzardspike. Even with that extremely cheap and crappy eq the char still rocked. I can in no way agree that it's the eq that makes the hammerdin good, they manage very well without eq.

    berzerk barb = too slow killer, only 1 monster at a time
    magic arrow zon = also too slow
    crushing blow ww barb (already done, works really well.) = dies TERRIBLY to IM
    crushing blow strafazon (solo'd dclone.) = BIG problems with PI
    crushing blow jabbazon = this really sounds like a bad idea in all scenarios. PI will be troublesome, IM will mean death etc.

    mhl12: Building a char and assuming your merc must stay alive for you to do damage can be rather truoblesome. Still, sorcs willö suffer from elemental immunes. It's also VERY fragile compared to the pala.

    A javazon kicks ass, really, until she encounters a light immunes. Gaah, so effective I thought I almost had a char that killed faster. But thise light immunes are just too much of a trouble (especially gloams that also are 90% phys resistant.

    Damn, I am getting deeper into the dark side. The power of the hammers is too strong to resist...
     
  10. NefariousNothing

    NefariousNothing IncGamers Member

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    BH only receives bonus damage to undead, iirc. Greater mummies and whatnot are "immune" to magic in hell, but seeing as they're undead they still take damage. The only BH immune monster in game, afaik, is an act 3 Wailing Beast; magic immune, and an animal class.

    But really, hammerdin's are a challenge with lower end gear; but what isn't? They aren't crappy in the least. The first character I beat hell baal with after ladder reset was a hammerdin. Hell, he didn't even have a shako. Wizspike, rare shield, IK belt, dwarf star, magefists, waterwalks, guardian angel and a rare shield. He took out DClone on several occasions, wearing the exact same gear.

    So many kids make just make them and slap godly gear on them. It takes all the skill out of playing a hammerdin.
     
  11. Rekoc

    Rekoc IncGamers Member

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    So your saying that you shouldnt make a monster that will run into trouble anywhere? You are totaly wrong. A WW barb can be very powerful and IM only accurs in 3 places. Chaos sanctuary/WSK lvl 3/ and the Throne. Thats where Zerk comes in. A meteorb sorc can take out anything thats not fire & cold immune and a decent merc can do that. There are very few light immunes anywhere and a decent merc could take those out as well. Its all about how good you are at the game.
     
  12. xyzthorakzyx

    xyzthorakzyx IncGamers Member

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    No it's not a question about how good you are, it's a question about one build being superior to everything else and you don't even need good gear to make it effective...
     
  13. Agateryon

    Agateryon IncGamers Member

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    I just started paladin, he is lvl 85 and he can kill things way easyer than with my meteorb sorc lvl 90!! and my pala equipment is hoz, viper34, crap rings, etlich, wizzardspike, war trav and glooms trap. No skillers. My sorc is full of them :p
     
  14. Joch

    Joch IncGamers Member

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    ppl who die with hammerdin probably have a bad pc
    (or exceptions like I saw my friends lvl 98 die in cs: 3th seal (fire lords) conviction aura, extra fast, extra strong)
    I have no problems at my mom place thou I spent 1 hour on my dad's place before giving up mf runs for a week. The teleport is impossible to do here :lol:

    boner(or bonemancer I don't care how you like to call it) does great dmg but if you want to go pvm you'll have to take a lot of mana potions :confused:

    If you're wealthy & ladder you might want to concider a sorc with infinity merc.
    most people chose lightning sorc
    good luck :thumbsup:

    I myself stay on the dark side as for my unwealthyness doesn't allow me to maintain the light side :D
     
  15. Xenon[XoA]

    Xenon[XoA] Banned

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    My friend made a fireblast // death sentry mfsin, works quite well. sentry has about 2.3k atm, fireblast around 1600. Immunes arent really a problem, since the death sentry sets off corpse explosion from the non-immune monsters and starts a chain.

    The gear ranges in value, think she's wearing coh, magical +5/60mf claws, ptop shako, rare pally ammy (mana/life/res), um ss, tal belt, chances, 2x nagel, travs.

    Lacking coh, a trap charm would give similar effect with an upped vipermagi.

    really good char for cowing / pit runs / eldritch / pindle etc.
     
  16. ziggy7483

    ziggy7483 IncGamers Member

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    The most survivable char I ever had was a summon necro. Only mistake I made with him was maxing mages after my regular skele's. Those mages sure drive me crazy. I made him with no extra vitality, and the only time he would die is from a lucky enemy ranged attack or some lag.

    He was level 85 before I started trading PGems to complete the trang set so I could make him look like a vampire. Totally rocked! With that set on he could eat some black soul lightning a couple of times before he got into danger. Best Item he ever wore were the trangs and a carrion ring.

    Lots of fun, then I lost internet access long enough for him to be deleted lol.
     
  17. xyzthorakzyx

    xyzthorakzyx IncGamers Member

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    Tried a trapassin, I still feel there were problems with light immunes even after maxing fireblast/death sentry. I had an enigma though, not a coh. I had base dex, base str and base energy combined with the fact that she can stay a long way from enemies and just lay down traps, I have to admit that this char really survived well (I don't think I died with it once, lvl 89 now.). I lacked trap charms so that might take care of some of the problems with light immunes. I like this char but as I said, light immunes caused problems. Maybe I should try to get some charms and try and see if I can handle those lih immunes. Maybe if I get a few more lvls so I can add some more skills to another synergy.

    Summoner necro is rather fun, WITH ENIGMA. Of all chars the one benefitting most from enigma is a summoning necro (try it, it's like playing anotehr char with enigma compared to not using it). The problem I had with this char is that he really needs his merc to do damage (I wasn't rich enough to use beast/pride though). Even with a mastery at lvl 43 and skel warrior at 41 I still feel the skels really didn't do that much damage. This is a big problem when you run into IM because that kills the merc extremely fast.
     
  18. itsPizzarific

    itsPizzarific Banned

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    if you didn't use skillers on this guy, you're missing out. the damage multiplies insanely for each point added in at higher levels. o.0

    also, like you said.. imo it's a whole different character when you use beast, and i'm assuming pride would be pretty pwn too though i haven't trade. pride freezes targets though, so it would be harder to summon your first few minions if you rely on your merc killing. you can always take pindle's portal and summon some of those things - i do that when i'm lazy. -_-

    just imagine this:

    pizza - "kill faster plz minions kkthx"
    baal - *laughs*.. *life doesn't drop any faster*
    pizza - *randomly morphs into a bear using beast and pwns*

    so, yeah. ^^

    :thumbsup:
     
  19. xyzthorakzyx

    xyzthorakzyx IncGamers Member

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    I had summon charms which is why I had my skeletons at lvl 43 and mastery at lvl 41. I admit my eq wasn't totally optimised but close to it. Maybe I should get a beast and try that, I am already tired of that boring hammerdin...
     

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