Another amendment to the US constitution?

Is Atheism an unprovable belief system, just like any standard religion?

  • Yes

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  • No

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DrunkPotHead

Diabloii.Net Member
Another amendment to the US constitution?

Uh-oh. America becoming un-american... or more american?

Here's the link.

I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.

That's my view. What's yours?
 

Matt

Diabloii.Net Site Pal
Freedom of speech. Burning a flag is an expression of views, therefore, its freedom of speech. The flag stands for the United States, the burning shows dislike for the United States. While the government may not LIKE people saying they dont like the United States, demonstrated through flag burning, its a downright terrifying thought that the government would ban it in my opinion.

Banning someones right to speak (or demonstrate) their mind, because the government doesnt like what they have to say, is, in my mind, terrifying.

-Matt
 

KillJoyBob

Diabloii.Net Member
Freedom of expression means you're sometimes going to have to put up with things you don't like or agree with. I don't like to see people burning flags (any flag), but I'll defend their right to do so.
 

Stevinator

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't like people burning the flag, but I don't think it should be banned. they have a right to not like my country, it makes them ******s, but they have that right. heck, sometimes I'm not even super charged about what we do. you might even say I have occasional ******-esque tendencies.
 

SuggestiveName

Diabloii.Net Member
There is no room for freedom of speech in this post-9/11 world. Flag burners are terrorists and need to be dealt with appropriately to ensure justice and continuing freedom in our nation.
 

zodiac66

Diabloii.Net Member
There are more and more of our freedoms being revoked under shrub.

I wouldn't burn a flag, but if someone is burning one in protest of shrub's policies, who am I to say he is wrong?
 

Kawaii

Diabloii.Net Member
On one hand, it falls under freedom of speech/expression. On the other, er... Nah. It's freedom of speech/expression. You can't ban an opinion just because you don't agree with it... Freedom of speech kinda works that way.
 

giantpinkbunnyhead

Diabloii.Net Member
If our wonderfully wise congress keeps drumming up drivel like this, I might one day be ashamed to call myself an American. This is an absolute insult. This country's most well-known feature is arguably freedom and free speech. As soon as we make illegal any action that shows disapproval of our country or our policies, we have moved a step closer to dictatorship.

Unlike yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, burning a flag is merely an expression of one's view. It doesn't create harm or do anything else besides make a statement. Of course, if in the process of burning the flag, the flag-burner violates other rules regarding fire safety, I say nail the bastard. But it must not be solely for burning the flag. No... way.
 

Freemason

Banned
Let them burn the flag. Our soldiers have bled and died for their right to do it. Just be aware that if you do and somebody such as myself or a vet catches you doing it, you will wind up broken and/or dead. It's the chance you take when you choose to say you hate this country.
 

Anakha1

Banned
SuggestiveName said:
There is no room for freedom of speech in this post-9/11 world. Flag burners are terrorists and need to be dealt with appropriately to ensure justice and continuing freedom in our nation.
Who are they terrorizing? Where's the justice in punishing those who use their free rights to express themselves as they see fit?
 

Suicidal Zebra

Diabloii.Net Member
Freemason said:
Let them burn the flag. Our soldiers have bled and died for their right to do it. Just be aware that if you do and somebody such as myself or a vet catches you doing it, you will wind up broken and/or dead. It's the chance you take when you choose to say you hate this country.
Would you feel the same about Americans burning the flag of other nations? For example, would you get particularly up in arms if some nutjobs burn't the Israeli flag, or the Polish flag.

How about the French flag?


EDIT:

I'm pretty sure Suggestive had his tongue in his cheek ;)
 

KillJoyBob

Diabloii.Net Member
Anakha1 said:
Who are they terrorizing? Where's the justice in punishing those who use their free rights to express themselves as they see fit?
You realize SuggestiveName's post was absolutely dripping with sarcasm, right?
 

Pherdnut

Diabloii.Net Member
Burning the flag doesn't necessarily mean you hate America. It means you're very very pissed at America. Job loved God but he didn't get a break until he finally said as much.

Anyway, this is just more pseudopatriotic BS. The current admin loves to dole it out because that's what got a lot of these jagoffs in power in the first place. America is turning into the land of the thoughtless and the ignorant.

If you can't see the irony in banning the desecration of a flag that represents liberty and freedom of expression and thought, you're an unabashed moron. These congressman aren't morons. They know who their voters are and will pander to their slackjawed simpleton minds. The kind of idiots who say things like, "That there G Dubya sure told them damn Euros off didn' he. They oughtta be grateful cause they'd all be speaking German now if not for us." Yeah that's right buddy. I'm sure your kid would love to share that little jewel with you if he wasn't coming home in a box that they won't allow the press to take pictures of.
 

KillerAim

Diabloii.Net Member
zodiac66:
There are more and more of our freedoms being revoked under shrub.
giantpinkbunnyhead:
If our wonderfully wise congress keeps drumming up drivel like this, I might one day be ashamed to call myself an American. This is an absolute insult.
Pherdnut:
Anyway, this is just more pseudopatriotic BS. The current admin loves to dole it out because that's what got a lot of these jagoffs in power in the first place. America is turning into the land of the thoughtless and the ignorant.
There’s nothing new here and blaming everything on Bush is becoming real tiresome.

There have been 4 previous attempts since 1989 to get such an Amendment passed and they all failed when they reached the Senate. I see the same thing happening this time.
 

Stevinator

Diabloii.Net Member
zodiac66 said:
There are more and more of our freedoms being revoked under shrub.

I wouldn't burn a flag, but if someone is burning one in protest of shrub's policies, who am I to say he is wrong?
well none of my freedoms yet. I live my life the same as i did before. so far we haven't seen as much abuse of government powers as you might expect after such a huge attack on our soil. Backlash is to be expected. Now after the image is a bit less fresh in our minds we must decide what sort of nation we want to be.

Do we want to be a nation where freedom of speech is considered a major tenet of our national identity. Do we want to stand for the rights of american citizens? Will we let freedom truly reign?

Or will we as many great countries have, fall to excessive nationalism and divisiveness?

Don't just up and blame Bush because its the in thing to do. Nearly everything in the patriot act was a great idea. we're only quibbling over a few of the details(I'm not a fan of them searching my library book selections either, amoung other things). I work in a bank and I run into patriot act issues all the time, and you know what. they're mostly good ideas. annoying, but good ideas. plus most of them are designed not so much to catch terrorists, but to prevent them from stealing your identity and pilfering your cash. Parts are useful, parts are silly. but over the whole it certainly has some use.

The evil doesn't so much lie within one single piece of legislation, but within what the american people will accept in the long run. Our ideas of freedom must be reborn, stronger than they were. we as a society must stand for freedom, even those freedoms that we find distasteful. we as a society must say this is america. That's supposed to stand for something. What does our flag mean, if we aren't allowed to disparage it?

Read this again.

Now tell me, does this sound like the kinda place that would want to put limits on our freedoms? how would this new law behoove my life, liberty and my pursuit of happiness? how would this law protect me from harm? how would this law protect anything but some citizens sensibilities? freedom is not about protecting sensibilities! it's about protecting truth, rights, open discourse and citizenry from an abusive government. Burning the flag is a symbol...it's a symbol of that same idea that bore this country. it's the idea that the state has a proper place, and the states natural course to outstep that place, and from time to time the state needs to be put back in it's place, or be destroyed all together, and room made for state that can stay contained.
 

KillJoyBob

Diabloii.Net Member
*wraps thread in asbestos*

*makes sure fire extinguisher is handy*

*braces himself in chair*

Pherdnut, I agree with you on your assessment of the political motivation behind this amendment. However, the presentation of said opinion will not yield a productive discussion in this thread.
 

KillerAim

Diabloii.Net Member
KillJoyBob:
Pherdnut, I agree with you on your assessment of the political motivation behind this amendment. However, the presentation of said opinion will not yield a productive discussion in this thread.
No too many productive conversations start off with a speaker saying to anyone who disagrees with his point of view "If you can't see the irony in banning the desecration of a flag that represents liberty and freedom of expression and thought, you're an unabashed moron.".

Certainly, there is a level of irony in a person who argues that to protect freedom and free speech you must limit freedom and free speech, but there is no less irony in many of the recent limitations on freedom and free speech advocated by those on the Left.

How can a group that supposedly supports different life styles and tolerance for those who think and act differently then the norm support such things as political correctness, speech codes in schools, and hate crime legislation?
 

llad12

Diabloii.Net Member
Personally, I think Congress should concentrate on more productive legislation than this silly amendment.
 

Ron Burgundy

Diabloii.Net Member
Won't somebody please think of the victims of this terrible crime. The flags. What the hell did they ever do to you? Where is their freedom?
 

KillJoyBob

Diabloii.Net Member
KillerAim said:
...but there is no less irony in many of the recent limitations on freedom and free speech advocated by those on the Left.

How can a group that supposedly supports different life styles and tolerance for those who think and act differently then the norm support such things as political correctness, speech codes in schools, and hate crime legislation?
You have to remember that the "left" is not a homogeneous mass of automatons with the exact same ideology and belief. There are just as many knee-jerk reactionaries on the left as there are on the right.

I'm not willing to dismiss all "hate crime" legislation as infringement on the freedom of expression.
 
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