Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Another amendment to the US constitution?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by DrunkPotHead, Jun 22, 2005.

?

Is Atheism an unprovable belief system, just like any standard religion?

  1. Yes

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. [Obligatory Durf Reference]

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. DrunkPotHead

    DrunkPotHead IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,801
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Another amendment to the US constitution?

    Uh-oh. America becoming un-american... or more american?

    Here's the link.

    I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.

    That's my view. What's yours?
     
  2. Matt

    Matt IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,163
    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Freedom of speech. Burning a flag is an expression of views, therefore, its freedom of speech. The flag stands for the United States, the burning shows dislike for the United States. While the government may not LIKE people saying they dont like the United States, demonstrated through flag burning, its a downright terrifying thought that the government would ban it in my opinion.

    Banning someones right to speak (or demonstrate) their mind, because the government doesnt like what they have to say, is, in my mind, terrifying.

    -Matt
     
  3. KillJoyBob

    KillJoyBob IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    Freedom of expression means you're sometimes going to have to put up with things you don't like or agree with. I don't like to see people burning flags (any flag), but I'll defend their right to do so.
     
  4. Stevinator

    Stevinator IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2003
    Messages:
    5,003
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    347
    I don't like people burning the flag, but I don't think it should be banned. they have a right to not like my country, it makes them ******s, but they have that right. heck, sometimes I'm not even super charged about what we do. you might even say I have occasional ******-esque tendencies.
     
  5. SuggestiveName

    SuggestiveName IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,820
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    168
    There is no room for freedom of speech in this post-9/11 world. Flag burners are terrorists and need to be dealt with appropriately to ensure justice and continuing freedom in our nation.
     
  6. zodiac66

    zodiac66 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    4,966
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    467
    There are more and more of our freedoms being revoked under shrub.

    I wouldn't burn a flag, but if someone is burning one in protest of shrub's policies, who am I to say he is wrong?
     
  7. Kawaii

    Kawaii IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2003
    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    On one hand, it falls under freedom of speech/expression. On the other, er... Nah. It's freedom of speech/expression. You can't ban an opinion just because you don't agree with it... Freedom of speech kinda works that way.
     
  8. giantpinkbunnyhead

    giantpinkbunnyhead IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    If our wonderfully wise congress keeps drumming up drivel like this, I might one day be ashamed to call myself an American. This is an absolute insult. This country's most well-known feature is arguably freedom and free speech. As soon as we make illegal any action that shows disapproval of our country or our policies, we have moved a step closer to dictatorship.

    Unlike yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, burning a flag is merely an expression of one's view. It doesn't create harm or do anything else besides make a statement. Of course, if in the process of burning the flag, the flag-burner violates other rules regarding fire safety, I say nail the bastard. But it must not be solely for burning the flag. No... way.
     
  9. Freemason

    Freemason Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,156
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Let them burn the flag. Our soldiers have bled and died for their right to do it. Just be aware that if you do and somebody such as myself or a vet catches you doing it, you will wind up broken and/or dead. It's the chance you take when you choose to say you hate this country.
     
  10. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2003
    Messages:
    10,368
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Who are they terrorizing? Where's the justice in punishing those who use their free rights to express themselves as they see fit?
     
  11. Suicidal Zebra

    Suicidal Zebra IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Would you feel the same about Americans burning the flag of other nations? For example, would you get particularly up in arms if some nutjobs burn't the Israeli flag, or the Polish flag.

    How about the French flag?


    EDIT:

    I'm pretty sure Suggestive had his tongue in his cheek ;)
     
  12. KillJoyBob

    KillJoyBob IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    You realize SuggestiveName's post was absolutely dripping with sarcasm, right?
     
  13. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Burning the flag doesn't necessarily mean you hate America. It means you're very very pissed at America. Job loved God but he didn't get a break until he finally said as much.

    Anyway, this is just more pseudopatriotic BS. The current admin loves to dole it out because that's what got a lot of these jagoffs in power in the first place. America is turning into the land of the thoughtless and the ignorant.

    If you can't see the irony in banning the desecration of a flag that represents liberty and freedom of expression and thought, you're an unabashed moron. These congressman aren't morons. They know who their voters are and will pander to their slackjawed simpleton minds. The kind of idiots who say things like, "That there G Dubya sure told them damn Euros off didn' he. They oughtta be grateful cause they'd all be speaking German now if not for us." Yeah that's right buddy. I'm sure your kid would love to share that little jewel with you if he wasn't coming home in a box that they won't allow the press to take pictures of.
     
  14. KillerAim

    KillerAim IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    121
    zodiac66:
    giantpinkbunnyhead:
    Pherdnut:
    There’s nothing new here and blaming everything on Bush is becoming real tiresome.

    There have been 4 previous attempts since 1989 to get such an Amendment passed and they all failed when they reached the Senate. I see the same thing happening this time.
     
  15. Stevinator

    Stevinator IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2003
    Messages:
    5,003
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    347
    well none of my freedoms yet. I live my life the same as i did before. so far we haven't seen as much abuse of government powers as you might expect after such a huge attack on our soil. Backlash is to be expected. Now after the image is a bit less fresh in our minds we must decide what sort of nation we want to be.

    Do we want to be a nation where freedom of speech is considered a major tenet of our national identity. Do we want to stand for the rights of american citizens? Will we let freedom truly reign?

    Or will we as many great countries have, fall to excessive nationalism and divisiveness?

    Don't just up and blame Bush because its the in thing to do. Nearly everything in the patriot act was a great idea. we're only quibbling over a few of the details(I'm not a fan of them searching my library book selections either, amoung other things). I work in a bank and I run into patriot act issues all the time, and you know what. they're mostly good ideas. annoying, but good ideas. plus most of them are designed not so much to catch terrorists, but to prevent them from stealing your identity and pilfering your cash. Parts are useful, parts are silly. but over the whole it certainly has some use.

    The evil doesn't so much lie within one single piece of legislation, but within what the american people will accept in the long run. Our ideas of freedom must be reborn, stronger than they were. we as a society must stand for freedom, even those freedoms that we find distasteful. we as a society must say this is america. That's supposed to stand for something. What does our flag mean, if we aren't allowed to disparage it?

    Read this again.

    Now tell me, does this sound like the kinda place that would want to put limits on our freedoms? how would this new law behoove my life, liberty and my pursuit of happiness? how would this law protect me from harm? how would this law protect anything but some citizens sensibilities? freedom is not about protecting sensibilities! it's about protecting truth, rights, open discourse and citizenry from an abusive government. Burning the flag is a symbol...it's a symbol of that same idea that bore this country. it's the idea that the state has a proper place, and the states natural course to outstep that place, and from time to time the state needs to be put back in it's place, or be destroyed all together, and room made for state that can stay contained.
     
  16. KillJoyBob

    KillJoyBob IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    *wraps thread in asbestos*

    *makes sure fire extinguisher is handy*

    *braces himself in chair*

    Pherdnut, I agree with you on your assessment of the political motivation behind this amendment. However, the presentation of said opinion will not yield a productive discussion in this thread.
     
  17. KillerAim

    KillerAim IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    121
    KillJoyBob:
    No too many productive conversations start off with a speaker saying to anyone who disagrees with his point of view "If you can't see the irony in banning the desecration of a flag that represents liberty and freedom of expression and thought, you're an unabashed moron.".

    Certainly, there is a level of irony in a person who argues that to protect freedom and free speech you must limit freedom and free speech, but there is no less irony in many of the recent limitations on freedom and free speech advocated by those on the Left.

    How can a group that supposedly supports different life styles and tolerance for those who think and act differently then the norm support such things as political correctness, speech codes in schools, and hate crime legislation?
     
  18. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    6,189
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Personally, I think Congress should concentrate on more productive legislation than this silly amendment.
     
  19. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2005
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Won't somebody please think of the victims of this terrible crime. The flags. What the hell did they ever do to you? Where is their freedom?
     
  20. KillJoyBob

    KillJoyBob IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    77
    You have to remember that the "left" is not a homogeneous mass of automatons with the exact same ideology and belief. There are just as many knee-jerk reactionaries on the left as there are on the right.

    I'm not willing to dismiss all "hate crime" legislation as infringement on the freedom of expression.
     

Share This Page