Analysis of Runes and ideas

[Keighvin]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

Well, multistrike on skull of flames makes a bouncing skull, while power makes a burning patch on the ground. Does that count as a "change to enhance" or as a "change completely"? I don't really understand what your saying.

 

[brightblacksun]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

They could do something like make the skills 'resocketable'. You can put a new rune in its socket, it'll just replace the old one, and the old one will be destroyed.

That way, it would be okay to use an early game rune early on, and as you progress, you can just replace it with whatever you find. Also prevents people from swapping runes during battle, cus you just lost your previous rune, unless you carry around a bag full of the same 2 kinds of runes.

 

[Farmrush]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

They could do something like make the skills 'resocketable'. You can put a new rune in its socket, it'll just replace the old one, and the old one will be destroyed.

That way, it would be okay to use an early game rune early on, and as you progress, you can just replace it with whatever you find. Also prevents people from swapping runes during battle, cus you just lost your previous rune, unless you carry around a bag full of the same 2 kinds of runes.

The problem with this is that while it does fix one problem (allows players to continue upgrading skills as they find better runes) it creates a new one. As players reach higher tier runes they are going to be less likely to use any rune that might be rare because it will be destroyed if they want to change out later. This doesn't promote experimentation and works against the entire idea of the system which is that you should be able to customize your skills to your play style, even if that includes changing runes every minute. They addressed this in one of the panels at Blizzcon stating they wanted to promote that, or at least allow it.

I wouldn't be against higher/highest tier runes binding to skills with the possibility of unbinding them for a moderate gold cost. This doesn't punish the player as harshly as destroying their runes does and creates a gold sink.

 

[GoBigRed]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

The problem with this is that while it does fix one problem (allows players to continue upgrading skills as they find better runes) it creates a new one. As players reach higher tier runes they are going to be less likely to use any rune that might be rare because it will be destroyed if they want to change out later. This doesn't promote experimentation and works against the entire idea of the system which is that you should be able to customize your skills to your play style, even if that includes changing runes every minute. They addressed this in one of the panels at Blizzcon stating they wanted to promote that, or at least allow it.

I wouldn't be against higher/highest tier runes binding to skills with the possibility of unbinding them for a moderate gold cost. This doesn't punish the player as harshly as destroying their runes does and creates a gold sink.

Agreed but I do think that if the top runes are going to make a huge impact on the skills, there should be a limit to how many times you can change it. The only way I could see them not limiting it is if they really are going to make the top items truly difficult to find and stop botting/duping.

 

[Paalt]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

Well, multistrike on skull of flames makes a bouncing skull, while power makes a burning patch on the ground. Does that count as a "change to enhance" or as a "change completely"? I don't really understand what your saying.

The multistrike on skull of flames change the skill completely because the skill behaves differently. Instead of just exploding it bounces. It's not enhancing it with more fire damage for instance.

They could do something like make the skills 'resocketable'. You can put a new rune in its socket, it'll just replace the old one, and the old one will be destroyed.

That way, it would be okay to use an early game rune early on, and as you progress, you can just replace it with whatever you find. Also prevents people from swapping runes during battle, cus you just lost your previous rune, unless you carry around a bag full of the same 2 kinds of runes.

Why not add a cooldown for runeswapping? That way you can swap runes, but not as it fits you, due to a new immune popping up on your screen.

 

[lidon]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I think many of us are viewing runes as consumables, or something that must leave the economy once it is used. I expect they will be more like equipment, an in effect, asking for them to be destroyed once they are removed from a skill is a bit like asking for equipment to be BoE.

Why shouldn't runes be as interchangeable and trade-able as equipment?

 

[deadbeater]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I like rune-swapping, especially in the middle of a fight. I don't like imbalacing runewords, nor rune destroying, ugh.

 

[ribbonwing]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

i like the idea of only being able to switch in town. this keeps people from switching thier runes constantly, (god that would be annoyng), while allowing experimentation and skill upgrading. you should also be able to convert runes to higher quality similar to the way you could gems in d2.

 

[peasant]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

An alternative would be to not allow Runes to be switched about at all but instead have its effect only be temporary (either by duration or number of uses). In other words, it'd be more akin to a 'power up'. This has the added benefits of allowing Runes to drop more frequently and would allow Runes of different qualities to drop without overcomplicating their properties (meaning, the quality on reflects how long the Rune lasts once attached to a particular skill).

 

[Galtrovan]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

In my opinion, runes should not wear out nor be destroyed when you want to swap them out. If I find a rune I like I certainly don't want it to wear out. I also want to be able to experiment with different runes without what my currently equipped rune being destroyed when I switch.

Limiting rune swapping to Town is probably a good idea though. Having to talk to an NPC and paying a fee would also be acceptable. Though on the other side of the coin, why should interchanging runes be any different from interchanging your other equipment? I guess I'm on the fence with being able to swap at-will, but I definitely say "No" to having the runes wear out or be destroyed.

 

[Zeek]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I think they can go for both experimentation and keep from constant swapping. Just allow the early tier of runes to be swappable as many times as you want. However, with the top tier of the runes make them bind on equip where they're destroyed if you want to equip a new rune.

You'll already know what the effect of the runes are from early experimentation. It's just that they highest tier of those runes is a one time use only. I'd guess that by then you'll know whether you want multi-shot or power or whatever.

 

[Galtrovan]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I think they can go for both experimentation and keep from constant swapping. Just allow the early tier of runes to be swappable as many times as you want. However, with the top tier of the runes make them bind on equip where they're destroyed if you want to equip a new rune.

You'll already know what the effect of the runes are from early experimentation. It's just that they highest tier of those runes is a one time use only. I'd guess that by then you'll know whether you want multi-shot or power or whatever.

As I said, I don't want my runes destroyed, especially the hard to find, godly ones. I'll want to save it for my other chars, alternate builds, or trade it away for something else of value.

 

[DisneyDestroyer]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

How about if runes are character-specific rather than skill-specific?

A character has a set of available runes (think of them as being tattooed on the skin). The character can pause to "activate" any rune, it will stay activated indefinitely, but the pause freezes your character for a few seconds - enough that you wouldn't want to do it during battle, and Barbs probably wouldn't want to do it between battles. Any skill used while that rune is activated will have the skill applied. But only that rune.

Let's say you have two favorite skills, say Magic Missle and Lighting. You really like the Greater Power rune for lightning (50% chance of critical hit), but you prefer the Greater Multihit rune for magic missle (multiplies the number of available missles times the number of enemies on screen). You need to choose which rune you prefer to have activated. Based on expected enemies? Based on world? Based on available power? Using tertiary skills as a tie-breaker? Maybe there's a skill that only gets a boost from one of your runes (Teleport will do a shockwave on landing with Greater Power, but Greater Multihit has no effect).

"Obtaining" a higher-quality rune simply replaces the lower-quality rune. Like getting more detail in your tattoo, so it channels more energy. Maybe there would be a rune artist in town, so you "find" runes as flaps of monster skin, which you need to take to the artist to imbue your skin with that rune.

 

[peasant]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

As I said, I don't want my runes destroyed, especially the hard to find, godly ones. I'll want to save it for my other chars, alternate builds, or trade it away for something else of value.

But you have to consider the repercussions of making Runes permanent. This would mean that as the game progresses, the player accumulates more and more Runes to the point that every skill can be equipped with a Rune. In order to prevent/delay this, Blizzard would have to reduce its drop rate, making them rarer. This would be detrimental and counterproductive to Blizzard's aim of promoting experimentation with different skill-rune combinations.

 

[DisneyDestroyer]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

The player can't accumulate more-and-more runes ad infinitum, because they aren't stored in the normal bag. There is a separate rune storage with only 10 spaces.

 

[GoBigRed]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

The player can't accumulate more-and-more runes ad infinitum, because they aren't stored in the normal bag. There is a separate rune storage with only 10 spaces.

You're forgetting that each person has numerous characters, if they stuck with 8, you could hold up to 80 runes.

 

[Galtrovan]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

But you have to consider the repercussions of making Runes permanent. This would mean that as the game progresses, the player accumulates more and more Runes to the point that every skill can be equipped with a Rune. In order to prevent/delay this, Blizzard would have to reduce its drop rate, making them rarer. This would be detrimental and counterproductive to Blizzard's aim of promoting experimentation with different skill-rune combinations.

Wow. Then we should also do something about all the permanent armor, weapons, shields, etc.... because sooner or later the player will accumulate more and more and more and more until Blizzard has to monthly decrease the drop rates of everything.

Better get into D3 right at release. Otherwise, you'll never get any of the good stuff.

 

[peasant]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

The player can't accumulate more-and-more runes ad infinitum, because they aren't stored in the normal bag. There is a separate rune storage with only 10 spaces.

Ahh, I see. In that case, it'll be less of a problem. Nonetheless, I still suspect potential for problem since these 10 spaces likely don't include those being actively used with skills.

Wow. Then we should also do something about all the permanent armor, weapons, shields, etc.... because sooner or later the player will accumulate more and more and more and more until Blizzard has to monthly decrease the drop rates of everything.

Better get into D3 right at release. Otherwise, you'll never get any of the good stuff.

Ah, but whenever less than desirable items drop, most players normally don't bother picking them up unless they plan on selling them. In either case, they don't continuously accumulate items unless they're compulsive hoarders. Runes, on the other hand, will almost always be useful as well as desirable and so, they're more likely to be hoarded as much as possible.

 

[ribbonwing]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

edit-nvm. stupid argument

 

[lidon]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

But you have to consider the repercussions of making Runes permanent. This would mean that as the game progresses, the player accumulates more and more Runes to the point that every skill can be equipped with a Rune.

I don't understand why this is a bad thing. Please explain.