Analysis of Runes and ideas

[RawBanana]

Analysis of Runes and ideas

Runes are like a random drop that allows characters to customize their character. Certain runes should totally change a skill and may be similar to the Facet system discussed with Stillman and I in this thread: http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=680066&page=3
Except instead of customizing by skill, Blizzard has chose to let us customize using dropped items.
- Problem with this system is that eventually everyone will have access to all runes
- At high levels, when everyone has every rune, they will use which ever rune best suits the occasion which means everyone will pretty much be using the same rune
- Perhaps the player can get an soul-bound artifact/quest (like horadric cube) that allows the player to designate a single rune that can be used at the max level
- Runes cannot be found at max level making players choose a style tied to the their rune of choice


Existing and possible Rune facets that will totally change play:
• Multistrike – bouncing Flaming skulls, maybe: piercing magic missles, double regular attacks to hit more enemies, double disintegrate beams,
• Higher levels multistrike more times or has a +X% to bounce 3+ times
• Lethality – corpse explosion on kills
• Higher levels increase damage/range of corpse explosion
• Possible: Duration – Flaming Skulls that burn after launch, extra duration for Blizzard, longer stun for skills that stun
• Possible: Haste – doubles speed of casting spells /attacks or casts 2 per casting
• Possible: Ease – halfs the mana/rage cost for all skills
• Possible: Seeking – ranged attacks home onto opponents, melee attacks get double attack rating (or whatever they replace this with)
• Possible: Teleport – teleports u to wherever you attack
• Possible: Freedom – allows you to cast/attack on the run
• Possible: Uninterruptable – cannot be interrupted for 1-3 seconds after use
• Possible: Maybe: Greed – Magic find, so obvious…
• Possible: Maybe: Leech – life/mana leeching
• Possible: Regeneration – regenerate mana/rage/health at faster rates
• Possible: Range – adds additional reach to melee attacks or splash damage to spells or additional range to AOE spells
• Possible: Curse – pick any single or random Necromancer curse
• Possible: Ghost – defensive use to take 50% from physical for 1-3 seconds after use
• Possible: Shadow – defensive use to take 50% from ranged/physical for 1-3 seconds after use
• Possible: Knockback/daze/piercing/slow/stun/crushing blow/etc – typical D2 effects useful for many builds in D2

 

[Keighvin]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

The power rune already makes Flaming Skull burn the ground.

No teleport rune since there is already a teleport skill, and it is likely that all classes will have a distance movement skill.

Freedom rune probably no since the standing while casting is more of a factor of the control scheme versus specific mechanic of the spells.

Fairly sure they've said that there will be no or only minor leeching, so I would think not.

Curse just no, please no.

The last part are either equip bonuses, critical effects, or possible effects of the Power rune.

 

[stillman]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

It looks like they used part of what I had in mind; there are many many passives to modify the skills. So you can make your lightning stun more frequently IIRC.

I have some similar concerns about the skill runes. Blizzard says the runes can be taken out at will and replaced with other ones. I would like it if the runes were permanently placed, and you would have to burn off a respec or some other serious cost to remove one. Like, maybe you can remove skill runes, but they are lost when you do so-just like using a hel rune to remove runes from items in d2.

I think people will be removing those skill runes all the time. For a boss they'll have one set of skill runes, for immunes they'll switch up runes and so on. It will make for some unpleasent situations where the team is broken up as some players spend too much time in town switching up their skill runes for each situation. And as the OP said, people will eventually have access to the best runes and we'll end up hearing "noob, y u use those noob runes? evry1 uses XX rune"

 

[LaZeR]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

Problem with this system is that eventually everyone will have access to all runes

You're thinking too much like D2. However, everybody had all those Jah and Bers in D2 because there we dupes. Trust me, without dupes the number of guys that will have HR in D3 and have in D2 will be very low and they'll be the hardcore players that everyone knows and envy.

- At high levels, when everyone has every rune, they will use which ever rune best suits the occasion which means everyone will pretty much be using the same rune

Hopefully Blizzard will make Skill Runes more of a choice of play than max damage, so Skull of Flame with a Power won't be better than one with other rune, but will just suit different player. Much like skills, where one FO is better than Blizz, but just better for certain situation and gameplay. And again, with no duping player will have to handle runes they find, not duped.

I would like it if the runes were permanently placed

More than agree. However, I think Blizzard is going for the forgiving route for new players. Hopefully this will be changed after the first couple of months of experimenting.
Although, again, with no dupes you'll have to use the runes while progressing in the game without UT leveling and putting High Skills Runes in lvl 90. So maybe low lvl runes will be essential for low levels but crap for high levels. And you wouldn't want to fight with no Skill Runes for all of your first levels/respec all of your Runes in high levels after fightning the whole game with a +3 dmg Rune?


Wow, that came out longer than I ment. I guess that's what you get when you're thinking while you're writing ^^

 

[sdemon]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I would like it if the runes were permanently placed

No. Please, no.
LaZer made a valid point of why this is bad - however, I do understand why you'd want a system like this. Here's my proposal:

You can replace any rune, but only in town and in your stash (or an npc, for example, could unsocket all of your runes for a little coin).
With a limited ability of returning to town, there won't be swapping runes in the middle of a battlefield, but it will still allow players to eventually upgrade their runes with better ones.

 

[LaZeR]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I really like your alternative. Also, as mention, a Hel rune effect can be used to- a cheap way to replace your Runes, but at the cost of your last Rune. That won't enable fight switching, make low level char use the low level Rune at low levels and replace them when they reach higher level and obtain higher Runes.

I think the Hel rune effect is the best solution for this problem. I can't any cons for it. I guess, as I said, that Blizzard is just going for more forgiving route.
Hopefully, however, Blizz will see the problem in middle-fight-Runes-change (or prehaps that's what they want, and that's why you can carry runes in your inventory??)

 

[sdemon]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

Not entirely sure if I like the idea of losing runes.
For example, I mainly use electrocute, sometimes ray of frost. I have a minor rune socketed to electrocute, but nothing in ray of frost. Guess I wasn't lucky.
If I find a higher level rune, i'd definitely want to socket Electrocute.. If I lose the rune I had while placing the new one, I'd still have to find one more rune to place into Ray of Frost, while hoping I won't get anything better than what I have in Electrocute.

Strategy? Maybe. I think it was mentioned by Bashiok that you can't really unsocket socketed items. Why would they keep this feature for items, but make it forgiving for skills? I'm not sure.

As for the special bag for runes - JW said, that the inventory was a mess in D2, and when they deciding on the inventory system, they took a look at charms and said "Hey, if we make charms, then we'd have a special bag just for holding charms". I think that philosophy applies to the 10-(12?) slot rune stash that you have on your character.

 

[phool]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

Problem with this system is that eventually everyone will have access to all runes

No, if not everyone has access to all runes - that's a problem.

 

[sdemon]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

Aa I gathered from the interviews, runes aren't there to make the same spell with one rune more powerful than with another. For instance, a multistrike rune on Electrocute against a single foe is just as useless as a Lethality rune.
And as for the WD, his firebomb skill bounces with one rune, and leaves a pool of fire with another. Both would be great for packs of mobs and for huge single enemies as well - the pool would do damage over time, and the bouncing bomb will hit that big guy more than once.

They're trying to make them a matter of taste, as I understand it. The different levels of the same rune kind is what will matter.
Just hope they balance them right, so they will truly be just a matter of taste, and not something that everyone "should have".

 

[Legato]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

here is a great bit of youtube to show some of the runes in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouYP1zGfd0s

 

[Gigashadow]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I like the fact that runes are togglable and you are not stuck with a specific rune once you put it in there. Allows for experimentation, especially considering that runes begin as undefined and nobody knows what runes are there out there. Besides, if there are different levels and you put a lower level one in? So, what, you don't use any runes than the most powerful ones?

 

[Culicidae]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I like the fact that runes are togglable and you are not stuck with a specific rune once you put it in there. Allows for experimentation, especially considering that runes begin as undefined and nobody knows what runes are there out there. Besides, if there are different levels and you put a lower level one in? So, what, you don't use any runes than the most powerful ones?

Yeah, it would definitely not make any sense to make the runes permanent, because otherwise, anything other than the highest tier of the runes would be useless to most players. No one would socket their spells until the late stage of the game and by that time, you would have already missed out on the opportunities to enhance your skills throughout the game to help you out. If they were to make it permanent, they would have to at least allow you to upgrade your rune with the same type but with a higher tier.

 

[Legato]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

i wonder if they will be recyclable? i.e once u put it in a skill and take it out it wont die.
Also there has to be strict requirements on which runes u can use at which stages of ur character

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I am sure runes will have a clvl attached to them. As for perm runes, I think this would be a terrible idea. It would infact make all runes except the very top end worthless. No one would put a rune into a skill at level 30 when they know for sure at lvl 50 such and such rune can start dropping. I am not against losing the rune when you unequip it

 

[peasant]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I think a more interesting question is on whether Runes should be permanent or if they simply wane/disappear after a certain number of uses. It would allow Runes to drop more frequently, allowing more opportunity for experimentation as well as allow free reign on how powerful these Runes can get without having to worry as much on their balancing.

 

[Apocalypse]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

gotta vote no on runes wearing out

 

[Paalt]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

possible Rune facets that will totally change play:
• Possible: Duration – Flaming Skulls that burn after launch, extra duration for Blizzard, longer stun for skills that stun
• Possible: Haste – doubles speed of casting spells /attacks or casts 2 per casting
• Possible: Ease – halfs the mana/rage cost for all skills
• Possible: Seeking – ranged attacks home onto opponents, melee attacks get double attack rating (or whatever they replace this with)
• Possible: Teleport – teleports u to wherever you attack
• Possible: Freedom – allows you to cast/attack on the run
• Possible: Uninterruptable – cannot be interrupted for 1-3 seconds after use
• Possible: Maybe: Greed – Magic find, so obvious…
• Possible: Maybe: Leech – life/mana leeching
• Possible: Regeneration – regenerate mana/rage/health at faster rates
• Possible: Range – adds additional reach to melee attacks or splash damage to spells or additional range to AOE spells
• Possible: Curse – pick any single or random Necromancer curse
• Possible: Ghost – defensive use to take 50% from physical for 1-3 seconds after use
• Possible: Shadow – defensive use to take 50% from ranged/physical for 1-3 seconds after use
• Possible: Knockback/daze/piercing/slow/stun/crushing blow/etc – typical D2 effects useful for many builds in D2

I hope blizzard is more creative than this.

How bout:

• Explode: Things explode. Summons explode(suicide bomber style), explode on strike, missile explode on impact, monster affected by AoE spells explode etc...
  
• Cluster: Missiles be it magic or physical carry cluster missiles that hit additional monsters on impact. Melee skills will have physical clusters, say you smash a skeleton, his bones will be treated as projectiles damaging other monsters. If a summon die, it will explode with cluster projectiles, that being his body parts
  
• Aerial: The skill distributes damage evenly in a nova effect
  
• Chaos: Random rune effect but with double chance of crits
  
• Shatter: Sends a wave of energy in the skills direction that cuts monsters legs off, making them stationary targets.
  

As unlikely the above examples may be, I hope they make runes that manipulates the skill to behave differently rather than enhancing them like runes in d2 enhanced your stats.

 

[Keighvin]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

Paalt, have you looked at any of the rune info in the Wiki? The runes do actually change the way the spell functions.

 

[Farmrush]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

I'm also hoping we see some other randomized bonuses on runes, either general or skill-related. Things like (SoF as an example for text):

Greater Multistrike Rune
Skull of Flames bounces up to 3 times.
+3 Vitality
+4% skill fire damage

 

[Paalt]

Re: Analysis of Runes and ideas

Paalt, have you looked at any of the rune info in the Wiki? The runes do actually change the way the spell functions.

It sure does, yet my point is: does it change to enhance the skill or does it change completely? My concern lies in what degree the skill is actually "changed". Yet the runes they have announced so far is all in the "bravo" category.

Point is, leave enhancement of skills (knockback, speed, crushing blow etc) to items and make runes fun and varied so that we can build millions of whack builds with them.