Latest Diablo 3 News
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

An Open Letter on Botting from the Diablo Community

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by nerdwards, Oct 18, 2015.

  1. nerdwards

    nerdwards Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2014
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    32


    There was an open letter posted today by several members of the Diablo community asking Blizzard to take action against Botting in the game. The letter was posted to d3cab.org earlier today, as well as the official Diablo 3 forums.
    From the Diablo III faithful, the players and community members who have dedicated countless hours playing the game right and playing the game honestly.

    You may view the original letter via the official neutral URL:

    Dear Diablo III Development Team,

    This is a message on behalf of the portion of the community that engages in the competitive aspects (such as Leaderboards and Conquests) of this game you created - the players who love the game to the point where they dedicate large portions of their free time to playing it; who want to have at least something to show for this dedication; who want to have their names up there on the Leaderboards; and who want to see rewards for the countless hours of gameplay they spend on Diablo III.

    You’re making this incredibly difficult for us.

    We all know that beating the highest possible Greater Rift tiers requires a large number of attempts in addition to the time investment that is needed to get the appropriate gear. This involves a lot of grinding, be it for Keystones, crafting materials, Infernal Machines, or Ancient Legendaries. Such is the nature of the game and that is not the issue. The actual problem lies in the vast amount of people who try to get around doing this dirty work - the ones that use bots; the ones that can log into the game to hundreds of Greater Rift Keystones, Legendary crafting materials, or Infernal Machines every day, without having lifted a finger for any of those. It should be obvious that this provides these players with a huge advantage over those of us that choose not to bot, but put at least the same amount of effort into the game and advancement of our characters. This feeling is extremely disheartening. We all know that it is incredibly hard to beat the botters and even impossible if they were to step up their gameplay to a higher level of efficiency. They can get a huge lead on you every single night. This knowledge reduces the incentive and desire to participate in the Leaderboard competition until eventually the Diablo III competition becomes a farce altogether. Thus, those of us that love the game and have been dedicated players since the start become increasingly frustrated with it until we simply give up on the entire competition, or create our own, virtual “bot-free” competition by ignoring all known botters.​

    It's a lengthy post so read on for the full letter which has been signed by members of the community and tell us what you think.


    To prevent that, your very own End User License Agreement, which we all agreed to, states that players may not use bots such as these, even giving “the automated control of a character in a Game” as an example for such a prohibited program (Section 1.C.ii.2. of Battle.net® End User License Agreement, http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/eula.html ). Enforcing this agreement is your duty and yours alone. If you don’t, it will only go to show that you don’t care. It has been months since the last major action taken against botters and, consequently, Season 3 was dominated by them. Our friends lists contain more and more people who are online for more than 20 hours a day, despite them having to go to work or school. Even if detecting the actual bots running on people's machines or identifying them by their in-game behavior was impossible, their log-in times should be more than enough to warrant additional investigation. Nobody can play for 23 hours every single day.

    Even if that were infeasible, at least let us report botters so that you may investigate their behavior. It has come to a point where it is quite obvious that certain high profile streamers are botting off-stream and some are even admitting so themselves in public chat rooms. These players are viewed as examples by the community, so what kind of message does that send? To us, it sends the message that not only is it apparently legal to bot, but that the game even requires it to be competitive. That is undoubtedly not how you want Diablo III to be seen, especially with how far we’ve come since the issues of the original release.

    Of course, we would prefer any action against botters to happen immediately upon them being discovered. However, we are aware that this is likely infeasible. Thus, we would propose any action against botters to take place approximately two weeks before the end of a Season, coinciding with the “Season Ending” announcement, as to not give botters the time to catch up to the legitimate and fair players again. The latter would then still be able to fight for the clean Leaderboards, as they would if botters didn’t exist.

    Still, with no action having been taken for so long, sending out a message to the entire community sooner rather than later would be a good idea.

    Please, if you have the same love for the game that we do, do something about the botters. It cannot continue like this. We cannot continue like this.

    - The Diablo III Community Against Botting

    Signatories (in alphabetical order):
    Alkaizer - http://www.twitch.tv/alkaizerx
    Angzt - http://www.diablofans.com/members/81741-angzt
    Anuiran - http://www.diablohub.com/
    Bagstone - http://www.diablofans.com/members/85801-bagstone
    DatModz - http://www.twitch.tv/datmodz
    DameVenusia - http://diablo3.ingame.de/
    Deadset - http://www.twitch.tv/thedeadset
    Destitute - http://diablo3.ingame.de/
    Empyrian - http://www.twitch.tv/empyriangaming
    Flux - http://www.diabloii.net/
    Ghostwheel - http://www.diablo3ladder.com/
    HolyKnight3000 - http://www.diabloii.net/
    HorstSchlemmer - http://diablo3.ingame.de/
    Jaetch - http://www.youtube.com/user/Jae7ch
    Leviathan - http://diablo.blizzpro.com/author/leviathan/
    Lt. Lunatic - http://diablo.blizzpro.com/author/cfrantz/
    MannerCookie - http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie
    MeatHeadMikhail - http://www.youtube.com/user/meatheadmikhail
    Menagese - http://reddit.com/r/diablo
    N3rdwards - http://www.diabloii.net/
    Nachten - http://diablohub.de/
    Natsuma_z - http://www.twitch.tv/natsuma_z
    Neinball - http://diablo.blizzpro.com/author/neinball/
    Quin69 - http://www.twitch.tv/quin69
    Thunderclaww - http://reddit.com/r/diablo
    Wudijo - http://www.twitch.tv/wudijo
    Zero(pS) - http://www.diablofans.com/members/39093-zero-ps"​


    If you have caught any of the podcasts, you have likely heard me ramble on about this topic. So, of course I signed this. I was happy to. I have felt for a long time that something should be done. Not one person has all of the answers, but if we can start a real dialogue about it, who knows?! We may actually come up with something feasible.

    Where do you weigh in on this topic? Do you feel like people who use these programs deserve to be banned? Or something less severe? Is this topic important to you? Chime in in the comments, or the other various threads and posts throughout the community.
    Continue reading the Original Blog Post.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2015
  2. koko

    koko Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    64
    I think botters deserve no sympathy at all. No way they argue they are not aware it is illegal. They must banned and why not sued.
     
  3. Cipherthros

    Cipherthros Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2012
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    34
    This should be raised by folk attending story time with Wyatt at Blizzcon for sure.
     
  4. Sloeberjong

    Sloeberjong Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    If bots are identifiable and bannable than by all means, Blizzard should do it. On the other hand, it's a game and gamers are entitled to exactly NOTHING. It's not up to you, your stream viewers or Blizzard to legitimize any leaderboard. It's up to the players to play the game and have fun with it. If you take it to some new level where you game countless hours to grind for the leaderboard than that's your own responsibility.

    I agree that it would be nice to not have botters on there, but honestly I am of the opinion that botters and "pro" players ruin the game for us regular folk. They've led to stuff becoming so difficult that it's impossible for someone like me to get it. Because I have work and stuff and can only game for an hour or 2 every day at most. Because those loud high lvl players "demanded" more difficulty etc. I probably won't get much uber stuff. And you know what, for me, them and bots are all the same. Stop whining, I don't, because I don't care that people game that way. I play the game because I enjoy it, not because of some sort of weird internet glory. There is no D3 pro-competition, because the game isn't "fair" or balanced.

    And once more, nobody here or otherwise is entitled to anything. It's Blizzards choice to improve the game because they want to, not because they have to. They could've given you D3 vanilla and be done with it. Remember, this game is an entertainment type of product. Everybody who spend money on it has probably has his worth out of it in terms of hours played.

    So either enjoy playing the game and stop whining (suggestion through the official Blizzard forum are ok, but an open letter is clearly whining) or stop playing and pick a new game...
     
  5. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    61
    first of all Im a 61 year old guy WHO has play the game since the first diablo saw dayligt more than 20 years ago and I think is not ok to use any kind of cheats at all and dudes who used should be banned no doubt about that BUT there is something wrong about the current banning systemand that is that blizzard ban dudes with a template message " you have violated terms and rules ect.ect and if you dont agree you can appeal. You cant cant get any information how and when they think you have cheated if you appeal you revieve a mail a few seconds after appeal denied all further comments bout this will be cancelled.In my eyes its against all rules!! you get punished without any proof at all normally in this World you must see evidence that you are guilty in violation of a rule! I dont defend botters what ever it is in any way but many are banned without reason, yes maybe 75-80 % ar cheateres or hackers and deserve to be banned but what about the rest WHO has played legal and used more 1500-2000 hours and dont get any chance to prove their ithey are innocent playing. As I wrote in the behinning Im 61 years old and dont know anythhing about all the technical stuff or how you can cheat but I was banned 5 days ago for using third part software Jesus christ I dont even know what it is ?? Is that fair ???

    A lot will say comne on you know you have cheated and hell no I have not cheated and Im not a top player I play 3 hours a day Im not in any leaderboards I have played more than 2000 hours and I was para 829 did trhat sound like I have cheated in any ways??? My lates Progress was 25 lvls in 4 weeks or more, do I have top gear no ???? When I contacted blizzard with a ticket they was ignorant and dont even want to hear my comment and then suddenly I recieve the 2 messages below :

    Status Account Suspended Origination In-game Activity Ban Type in-game activities that violate the Terms of Use. Expires Saturday, 17 October 2015 14:12:56 o'clock BST ) Ban Reason N/A
    : Status Account Suspended Origination In-game Activity Ban Type in-game activities that violate the Terms of Use. Expires Tuesday, 20 October 2015 16:03:20 o'clock BST (in 2 days) Ban Reason N/A
    when i try to get a comment for how long the banning are they just cancelled my tickets ??? Im not a crying baby or anything like that ignorant or condescending gloating as dudes always says when a dude claims he is innocent. The dudes WHO call others for cheaters ect ect is for some reason the peopel WHO know all about how to cheat know all about the technical issues, all that techinal stuff I even dont know what is. YEt I still support banning of cheateres but not without any proof at all just a template mesaage. blizzard claims that they want that their game will bring peopel together but right now they bring up the worst in peopel I have read more than 3000 comments about banning. They laugh at peopel who has get banned and in manner for what they should be banned.

    Just think a few seconds how it feels to be banned and know you dont have do anything wrong see thousands of hours wasted??? We all know that maybe 200000 players have been banned since D3 arrived but just imagine if 20000 lost their account for no reason and without a proof!! (to appeal is a soap opera)and if these dudes buy a new game, it gives Blizz give a million dollars I read another statement that maybe 22% are innocent banned that means 2.2 million dollars and suddenly it becomes business to ban dudes. And still I support to ban cheaters but the ways as they do it now
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2015
  6. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    61
    And still I support to ban cheaters but NOT the way they do it now -
     
  7. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    61
    in my eyes the game should be for fun and entertainment and not race for rankings on the leaderboard, maybe Im naive but think thats the reason some dudes cheating, I dont mentioned any names but has seen dudes reach from para lvl 700 to 1050 in a week in that case no doubt about cheat are involved, calculating the Progress its not human
     
  8. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    61
    and sorry for my bad English but im 61 years old :)
     
  9. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    61
    koko October 18, 2015 at 11:48 Hmm why not put them to jail or sentenced them to death and then maybe after some years realized they were innocent!!!!!botters dont deserves no sympahy at all I agree but only recieve a template messages is not ok!! in most decent countrys you have to know the evidence and a chance to defend yourself. and you dont know for how long you are banned as in my case only confusing messages like

    Status Account Suspended Origination In-game Activity Ban Type in-game activities that violate the Terms of Use. Expires Saturday, 17 October 2015 14:12:56 o'clock BST ) Ban Reason N/A :
    Status Account Suspended Origination In-game Activity Ban Type in-game activities that violate the Terms of Use. Expires Tuesday, 20 October 2015 16:03:20 o'clock BST (in 2 days
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2015
  10. thuus

    thuus Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    2
    All that is being asked is that Bliz follow its own TOS and handle this. Whether it directly affects your game play if someone else is cheating or not is not the point.

    Who knows if the botting is contributing to server lag?

    If the botting is not being detected then future development of the game will be baselined from cheats which changes the dynamics of gameplay for everyone.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2015
  11. koko

    koko Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    64
    This is why I talked about trial. To have them a chance to defend themselves. Also, ban does not mean delete.
     
  12. koko

    koko Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    64
    Agree. Yet, I imagine no sensible reason to ban pro gamers... For botters at least we have one.
     
  13. DaveTheBrave

    DaveTheBrave Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    19
    I wish this letter had been written a little more professionally. It *demands* this or that from Blizzard, as if 1) they're not aware of the problem 2) it is a problem that can easily be solved.

    Let's ignore #1 because, yes, Blizzard is aware. Moving on.

    #2 misses the forest for the tree so much so I was actually lol'ing reading the letter. No, Blizzard cannot reliably identify botters without TONS of false positives, no matter the method they'd use. And if you're curious, no they can't read your memory to detect the programs that are running, no time played is not a perfect indicator (it would actually miss most botters), and so on. Like it or not, the bad press from false positives would far far far outweigh any benefits to the community. How would *you* like to be caught in that net?

    But more importantly: botters are *not* the problem. I repeat, botters are not the problem. The problem is with the game itself, which provides enormous incentives to bot. So guess what? People are going to do it. The paragon system turned out completely broken when taken to its logical conclusion, and Blizzard simply didn't account for this.

    Remove the incentives, you'll get rid of the botters. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN ANY OTHER WAY. At this point it may be too late for D3. The paragon system and other broken features of the game can probably not be fixed at this point. But stomping your feet demanding the ban hammer is not going to solve anything, trust.
     
  14. °OsO°

    °OsO° Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2013
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    ...Playing D3...hit ESC...
    so mhhhh this game sold how many?...let´s say 20 million copies
    so 30 people want botters banned...mmmhhh
    mmmhh... nothing to see here...move along..
    ..hit ESC...
    keeps playing...and having fun...

    /sarcasm
     
  15. Cymra

    Cymra Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I agree completely that paragon as a system is broken and I've said as much in the past about how I think it provides the perfect excuse for botting (you don't even need gear if you can get enough paragon points - at that point half decent legendaries will do). My "however" is that Blizzard have already said they won't change the paragon system. As such I think we have to see something done and that something is going to have to be banning at least the streamers that straight out admit it on stream - "Hai guys, so since last night I've gained some more paragon levels so I should be able to have a change at GRX, and the ads you watched mean I'm making money out of you hearing about it. KK, thx, bb! :D"
     
  16. Cymra

    Cymra Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2014
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I agree 100% with the letter. This might be a verifiable first for my entire time on the internet. I'm probably going to have to lie down for a while now...

    Being (slightly) more serious though - if you want to bot in a game like Minecraft then I've got no problem with it at all because you're only affecting your own play experience. My problem with botting in D3 is that at least a selection of the botters are actively making money from it. While they do this they are actively admitting to it.

    Over how to pick up on it... I can't believe a company with Blizzard's techies can't figure out a way to do it. I've said before about play time which is the big red flag for me - if a player is in a game instance for 18+ hours a day for more than a couple of days straight... that ain't possible. By "game instance" I mean that you're inside the game, not just on the login screen. If you're not doing things while you're zoned in then after a while it disconnects you. Run that as a scan first. Then see who was actively moving for all that time. Then you can keep a closer eye on players. And that should make sure you get the right ones.
     
  17. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    61
    koko October 18, 2015 at 17:14 This is why I talked about trial. To have them a chance to defend themselves. Also, ban does not mean delete.

    well the problem are when they ban an account they say for how long a week or lifetime ?? because if for life time it Means delte an account imo
     
  18. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    61
    LOLOK October 18, 2015 at 16:57 Giant wall of text, tldr.

    Yes my comment is great wall of text sorry for that but i just try to tell what it Means to be accuses and banned for something called bots.
    and it seems like blizzard use a shutgun when they ban someone and their arrogance when you contact them as I write ealier first 'I was banned and when i contact them to defend myself in appeal it took them less than 30 seconds to reply case closed now further comment will be cancelled. If they can invistigate my crimes so fast why cant they copy an paste my so called violations. I cant understand or belive a big company with Blizzard's techies need to use templatesand give an answer and further more post these to messages below in this thread
     
  19. HFDOH

    HFDOH Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Status Account Suspended Origination In-game Activity Ban Type in-game activities that violate the Terms of Use. Expires Saturday, 17 October 2015 14:12:56 o'clock BST ) Ban Reason N/A

    and the 17 october i recieve the nessagge

    : Status Account Suspended Origination In-game Activity Ban Type in-game activities that violate the Terms of Use. Expires Tuesday, 20 October 2015 16:03:20 o'clock BST (in 2 days) Ban Reason N/A
     
  20. koko

    koko Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2011
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    64
    If it is the case (and I hope not), they are wrong.
     

Share This Page