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An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Johnny, Jul 9, 2008.

  1. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    Okay here goes.

    1. Anette Olzon

    Now here's the list of things you totaly had coming and we aren't apologizing for.

    1. Burning down your capitol

    3. Rejecting all your suggestions on names for your own cities and substituting our own (Björneborg anyone?)

    2. Enslaving your people for two centuries

    3. Leting the soviet juggernaut stomp your *** while we told you we were going to send help when we totaly were not going to.

    4. Kicking you out of the swedish empire and bleeching all your swedish flags white so you could never return.

    5. For what we have been doing to your drinking water for the past seven decades just so you would gradualy lose the ability to speak your original native language (swedish) and leave us alone.

    6. Everything else I forgot since I decided to make this thread.
     
  2. DufresneXV

    DufresneXV IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    The country that actually needs to make amends is Russia (the former USSR).


    1. Russia controlled Finland after Sweden got out

    2. Russia tried to force its language, culture and style of government on Finland.

    3. Russia tried to force Finland to sign one sided peace deals with Finland, and when they refused, invaded Finland.

    4. The Winter War! The Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin had no legitiimate reason for invading Finland other than a land/ power grab. Stalin felt the FInish border was to close to a major Russian city, and he was afraid Germany might try and claim Finland.

    5. The Soviets attacked with thousands of tanks, airplanes, trucks, artillery emplacements and lots of soldiers. Finland had a bunch of older planes, 1 tank, no heavy artillery and no anti tank weapons other than molotov cocktails.

    6. Russia was humiliated in the Winter war, thanks to Manerheim and the superior Finnish defense. According to some of my college professors, Finland suffered less than 70,000 casualties, while Soviet forces suffered nearly 1,000,000 (wounded, dead, missing, captured)

    7. The Moscow Peace Treaty was a one sided deal that favored the Soviet Union. Finland was forced to screw themselves in treaty negotiations because it was either that or continue a war they could not win in the long run. America, England, France and Sweden were all angry that Soviet forces invaded Finland, but they did nothing to stop it because they wanted the Soviets as an ally against the Germans.

    8. Russia should give back Korellia!
     
  3. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    The only reason the soviet union did so bad was because Stalin had killed off all competent generals and officers in the military. Had they still posessed those officers then the war would have gone very differently. Something they thankfully managed to correct before Germany attacked. In no small part due to the disaster in Finland.



     
  4. DufresneXV

    DufresneXV IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    I am well aware of Stalin's purge of the officer corps in the 1930's, but that does not change the outcome or the fact it was a total humiliation for Russia.
     
  5. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    The outcome? You mean that Russia won? Well I guess you are somewhat right there. However the purging was the reason for the "humiliation".

    As for the loses between the two sides it was actualy 5-1 in favor of finland with the soviets loses being about 300.000 dead/wounded/missing/captured.
    So your claim of 14-1 is just slightly off mark.



     
  6. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    Wiki cites following numbers.

    It's more like 6 to 1, pretty exactly. Doesn't matter though, 14-fold is still way over the top.

    OK, you take her back now? We'll trade for Mark Levengood.

    No biggie, was probably some drunken Finn in the end of the day anyway.

    At this time, let me take the time to apologise for your math teacher who in all probability was a Finn.

    Yeah, having one of your oldest cities named like a Swedish tennis star who sells undies really hurts.

    Try five - you mean you're apologising for the three centuries left over?

    At least the French had the decency to topple their government when theirs did that. Tells a thing or two.

    You had us desperate for a while there, we were going to use candy wrappers as flag for a while.

    It finally worked two years ago when compulsory Swedish in matriculation examinations and even elementary education was banished. We're lost forever. :cry:

    That's really the hardest part, knowing there's still stuff to come.

    In all honesty, most Finns - at least who have been there and seen the place - don't want Karelia back. The province is pretty run down and in bad shape, and has been lived in by people for over 60 years now - people who called those cottages their homes are mostly dead or demented by now. I'm not entirely sure we have any more right to throw them out than Russians had displacing the populace they did. We might be best letting the matter lie.

    As to points 1 and 2, remember we were something gained in the war, so it's sort of acceptable to control such a trophy, and Russification was due to Finnish legislation putting a Russian in to position lesser than a citizen of the Grand Duchy (Finns could, for instance, serve as Russian army officers, whereas Russians could not serve in the Finnish army; trade was similiarly rigged etc. etc.). From Russian point of view, it was protecting the lawful interests of majority of the Empire's citizens.



     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2008
  7. BobCox2

    BobCox2 IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    Dude! Come on, Get with it, Johnny is the Americanized short version of what Russian Name?


     
  8. Holysinner

    Holysinner IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    I was holding my breath for your reply, Wildberry, and you didn't disappoint. Now you know for certain Johnny loves you for opening this thread.

    And though I'm a few days late, and probably in the wrong forum...


    wb, WB!
     
  9. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    I wasn't here then either, so you're by no means in the wrong place. Thanks. :thumbup:



     
  10. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    The only thing we can hope for it that Tarja manages to rent herself a new band so we can get some of the old school type nightwish music back.

    Let's face it Tarja was the reason people started listening to nightwish. The mix of of dark metal and gothic opera was an instant money maker. The new mix of dark metal and pop is just... Meh. A soilwork coverband at best.



     
  11. LorveN

    LorveN D3 Off Topic Moderator

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    Please take Levengood back, and let Gardell join him as family.
    We can take two fins of your choice for that.
     
  12. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    What? Nobody cares about any of these countries.

    New Nightwish ain't bad provided you don't compare it to real Nightwish.
     
  13. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    My point exactly. The new chick can sing. She just cant sing Nightwish.

    have you seen her dance routine in their video Amaranth? She looks like she came straight from the eurovision song contest.

    Can't even compare to the Old nightwish songs



     
  14. DufresneXV

    DufresneXV IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    Wildberry, there is a sentimental value in getting Korellia back. True most of the people who lived there are gone, to old to care or whatever else, but it would still be nice to get it back or perhaps some sort of apology from Russia.

    Those who left had only days to gather what belongings they could and get out. Did they recieve any compensation for all the stuff they had to leave behind? Did Finland benefit from losing Korelia or all the industrial capicty located in that region?

    For your information, my Great Grandparents were Finnish and born in Korellia. They were long gone to America when the war started, but some other people who i would be related to were forcefully displaced by the Moscow treaty. My grandfathers siblings were all born in Finland, with my grandfather being the only one born in America. So my Finnish ancestors were born in a place now owned by Russia.

    I know all this is unrealistic, but it would still be nice to see Finland get Korellia back.

    I also had German ancestors from a part of eastern Germany that now belongs to Poland, and French Canadian ancestors who got to deal with Britain winning the French and Indian War (Seven Years War) and taking over Quebec.
     
  15. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    If you get Korellia then I demand that Finland and half of Norway is returned to Sweden.
     
  16. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    I assume your question isn't rhetorical. No, we were not compensated. Karelia was something we relinquished when we admitted defeat in the war. Giving Karelia away was, in fact, compensation of sort. As the individual persons leaving their homes, Finnish state tried to compensate for their losses to extent, backing loans for new houses, forcibly dividing some land for them to settle on etc.

    And yes, we didn't benefit from losing it - an excellent example are power plants in the river Vuoksi. But the fact is, with the keeping the property left to the east side of the border have had, there's no more property to had. The said hydroelectric plant, for example, has been left to rot, as there was no Russian engineer capable of operating the machinery, and they would not ask for co-operation in this matter. There's not much to be had anymore.

    My grandfather lived there when it hit the fan, and fought for his home and hearth. Still, even he grew to accept the loss.

    Sure, it might be just in some sense. Then again, like I said, there would be more recompensating if it happened.

    Then you should know how well Johnny's point stands: should Finns be relinquishing Lapland to the Sámi people? Shouldn't Russia actually own most of the Finland, as the original border concerning this country was drawn 1323 in Nöteborg (Pähkinäsaari or Oreshek for Russians) between Sweden and Novgorod



     
  17. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    Meahwhile assuming you get that city back. What will you do with all the russians living there? Kick them out? Make them fins?


    "Hey I know you've been living here for 30 years and where born here and that your grandfather was born here aswell but we need to hand this house to a 20 year old finish couple that likes the color on it"
     
  18. WildBerry

    WildBerry IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    Your example is pretty prime on how inconvenient it would be.

    Concerning your hypothesis, were we to come to possession of the Karelian province, especially the city of Viipuri, the people currently living there would probably be forcibly relocated. It's nothing new in Russia anyway.



     
  19. Dondrei

    Dondrei IncGamers Member

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    To be fair, Nightwish isn't exactly a dancey kind of band.

    I think I read somewhere that she used to be in an ABBA tribute band...



     
  20. Johnny

    Johnny Banned

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    Re: An official apology to Finland for all the bad things Sweden ever did to you

    That's exactly my point. She is not supposed to dance, Just stand there and be all sexy-evil looking while delivering dark tones.



     

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