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An Indy Jones tourney idea...

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by japanzaman, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    There's quite a few interesting tournaments going on at the moment, so this is more of a preliminary stage to gauge interest and get feedback in order to make this tournament better if it does in fact turn into a full tournament later on after some of the other tournaments have had a chance to run their course.

    Basically, I’m thinking something along the lines of a treasure hunter themed tournament where your character would essentially be limited to using items/gold found in “treasures” on the map. “Treasures” in this sense would include any non-enemy item on the map including chests, pots, racks, corpses (non-enemy corpses), shrines, etc. Here are the basic rules.


    RULES (pending feedback)

    1. Only items and gold obtained from “treasures” may be used. Items dropped from enemies and bosses are strictly off limits- no equipping, selling, cubing, socketing, period. The only exceptions are those special items that are needed to complete specific quests in the game (the Gidbinn, Hellforge Hammer, Khalim’s flail, etc). Countess runes and Radamant’s skill book would NOT be acceptable as they are not necessary to complete the quests and are dropped by an enemy. The Find Item skill is also off limits.
    2. Rewards given to you by certain characters for completing quests may be used. For Larzuk and Charsi, only items obtained from chests may be socketed or imbued. Respecs are allowed if done as a reward, not with the cube.
    3. Shopping is NOT allowed, though you may repair your gear and sell any items obtained from treasures. This means no shopping for even small items like scrolls, potions, and keys.
    4. Hell-forge runes are acceptable as they are found on the map and not dropped by an enemy. The Hellforge hammer and soul stone are necessary to complete the quest.
    5. You may use your cube as long as all of the components are obtained from treasures.
    6. You may complete the game at any player level, however, you are not allowed to change the player level setting after entering a new area or floor. For example, if you enter the Far Oasis at player 3, you must finish that entire area at that difficulty and chests may only be opened at that setting. NO EXCEPTIONS. You are, however, under no obligation to clear all the enemies. Just remember that your character level is calculated into your score, so the more enemies you can beat the better.
    7. Single Pass. Also, no rerolling maps. This means if you need to go back to a previous difficulty level to use a reward you need to wait until you are about to start a new act (or get to another area where you would get a clean break (Arcane Sanctuary, etc.).
    8. Hard core, or disqualified after first death or ESC escape.
    9. There are no other restrictions in terms of stat point allocation or skills.
    10. You can use ATMA or GoMule for an extended stash. Any other forum approved mods are acceptable as well.
    11. [EDIT] Gambling IS allowed as long as it is done with legit gold.


    SCORING

    So I’m thinking this kind of tournament would be a little more fun with some scoring added to it. This means just simply completing the game wouldn't mean the end of the tournament. Here’s how I’m proposing the scoring.


    Final Score = (Character Lvl) + (Quest Points) + (Treasure Points)


    Quest Points
    • 1 point for each Normal quest and cows (31 total points)
    • 2 points for Nightmare quests and cows (62 total points)
    • 3 points for Hell quests and cows (93 total points)

    Treasure Points
    • 3 points for any Rune obtained from a treasure
    • 5 points for any set item obtained from a treasure
    • 10 points for any unique item obtained from a treasure

    Quests are considered complete ONLY after the quest box has been deactivated, so you will need to use rewards in certain cases in order to receive the points for those quests. Please keep this in mind when scoring. I've elected to prioritize finding items over finishing quests, as this will shift the focus of the tourney to what I feel makes it the most unique and will help keep people motivated to kick over all those little pots as they progress through the game.


    So what do you all think about this idea? Does it seem too easy? Too trivial or contrived? Too cumbersome? If so, how could it be improved? I feel that adding the scoring component could help offset the fact that certain builds and characters would find this challenge easier than others. For example, a Necro summoner wouldn't necessarily win the tourney, though it might be easier to finish the game. Any suggestions in terms of the rules or scoring are appreciated.

    Just for the record, this is not a call to signup! I just want feedback right now, as I'm a little too busy to manage a full tourney at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
    Pb_pal likes this.
  2. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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    I like the idea, and I think it is a reasonable difficulty level. I like that it makes some things much less cumbersome, like making a million trips to town to sell everything. It also makes you carefully manage your resources.

    Upon further thought it will be very tough for potions, and possibly tp scrolls also. Not sure if that would be too tough. MF is also useless. But GF still would help I guess. Merc resurrecting could be a problem with limited money also.

    I like the very limited resources a lot though. Reminds me of the tourney that had trophy mobs and you could only use their drops. I didn't play it, I think it was before my time, but I really liked the idea. Can't think of the name of it though.
     
  3. Jcakes

    Jcakes IncGamers Member

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    I think you may have been thinking of "the emperors clothes" you could only wear gear dropped from SU's.
     
  4. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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  5. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    I ran a tourney like that too a few years ago. http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/threads/tournament-super-unique.842646/

    I like OP's idea. It forces people to actually click all those clay pots and book shelves, and also rewards those who play at higher /players settings.
     
  6. Pb_pal

    Pb_pal IncGamers Member

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    Very cool idea, I like it.

    As kestegs pointed out, I think the toughest part will be potion/gold management. I like it though, as you will have to be very choosy about when to resurrect, or even protect your merc with potions. Melee characters are going to have a tough time in this one, but they will also get a ton of respect if they can pull it off.

    Since Find Item is banned, would Find Potion also be banned? What about Redemption/Carrion Vine? I'm assuming the last two will be allowed as they don't abuse the drop system, but just throwing ideas out there!

    It reminds me of the old "Ironman" tournaments/characters people used to play. Definitely a different style of playing!

    You've got my interest, I will definitely join when it comes to it. :)

    EDIT: Another question, just to be clear. Under rule 5, this means we can transmute 3 rings found from treasures into an amulet and use that amulet even though it technically wasn't found from a treasure, correct?
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2015
  7. Dazliare

    Dazliare IncGamers Member

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    Interesting. It actually sounds pretty difficult. This tournament almost sounds like it was made for a necro :p
     
  8. SunsetVista

    SunsetVista IncGamers Member

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    I like it. The scoring system is good. No shopping makes this very difficult. I like that.
     
  9. GooberGrape

    GooberGrape IncGamers Member

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    I just realized how hard this will be to sort treasure items from mob items in a crowded room.
     
  10. Pb_pal

    Pb_pal IncGamers Member

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    This could be tricky. There are a couple ways around it, although some can be fairly tedious and/or dangerous, especially in later difficulties. Anyone know the length of time items stay on the ground (in the wild, not in town) for before vanishing?
     
  11. srrw

    srrw IncGamers Member

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    You can always pickup the items and drop them further away from containers. With careful gameplay this will only be necesary when opening superchests.
     
  12. Pb_pal

    Pb_pal IncGamers Member

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    I think a combination of this, and consciously leading packs away from containers (mostly chests/superchests) should be enough. In dire situations you can just leave the area without popping the treasure containers and come back once the monster drops have poofed. It might be a touch tedious, but I don't think it will be too tough to deal with.
     
  13. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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    There's probably only a few areas where it would be that bad, like tombs for example. The rule in the other tourney that I linked was that if you weren't absolutely sure it was a drop you could use then you couldn't use it. Being cautious about opening stuff would just be part of the play I'd say.
     
  14. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    Yes, you would be able to use that amulet. The rules forbid the use of items dropped by enemies. The cube may be used in any way as long as the components are all obtained from treasures.

    Whenever possible, it might be a good idea to try and lure away mobs from areas with superchests. You can also pick up and clear away any items, dumping them in a corner to better clear out the area.

    I'm glad to hear that many people aren't getting too turned off by the fact that melee builds will be at a disadvantage in this tournament. We could mitigate this somewhat by adding another difficulty multiplier for certain classes/builds. For example, a melee build would get a 25% point boost or something like that. Or does that seem too generous?
     
  15. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    I kind of like it, and am already tempted to have another go at D2. :) Damn these tourneys! *shakes fist*

    Personally, at this stage, I'm not too fussed with scoring or having it truely balanced; I'll let others deal with that, but it doesn't bother me at all.
    I also wouldn't really worry too much about the number of tourneys at one time. That 'rule' was around when the forum could have 5+ tourneys being updated multiple times a day, and everyone had multiple commitments. The forums are a lot quieter now, so people here are (I believe) more constant, or ready to post their time frames/delays. That said, I would still delay until one(+?) becomes more quiet, as there are a few on at the moment already.

    3. Shopping - Personally, I wouldn't be 100% strict on shopping. It comes down to 'character' in my mind. Shopping at the start/end of a session to me feels fine, but power-shopping - rerolling dozens of time for that one item - is the difference. To me, it feels more along the lines of a reasonable amount of shopping:questing ratio. That does come down to 'personal definitions of what is "reasonable"', and becomes arbitrary but I feel banning shopping altogether is a bit strict for me, especially when loot is already diminished.
    EG: If by pure chance at the start/end of a true session (and I use "chance" and "true session" as key words,) you are lucky enough to see a "Chromatic Bone Shield of Deflecting/Amicae," then I feel like ignoring it is a punishment. If you "consciously" return to town to heal, or sell items, and have the item on your mind, you are influencing (and thus increasing the "chance") then it should not be rewarded.
    It does come down to trust, honesty and an arbitrary sense of "reasonable," but most people can pick the difference between an accidental find, and power-shopping/returning to shops too frequently for an item. Maybe limit it to a one single chance at one single vendor when you complete "x" quests? A true hero, and Jones, does have to buy some lasso and hats occasionally.
     
  16. kestegs

    kestegs D3 Monk Moderator

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    I don't really care about the points, to be honest. My goal in any tourney is guardian. People will pick whatever they want, and if they want a bigger challenge they'll make it one. I rarely see any fishymancer or frozen orb/whatever builds in tourneys, just because I think most people here like a challenge. And I personally dislike melee anyway, so likely wouldn't play it :p

    Edit : to be more clear I don't hate the point system, it's just not my main goal. I think it's a fun way to compare luck and progress, like in the barbarian brothers tournament. Almost every tournament on the forum used to have points, we just kinda slowly moved away from it I guess.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
  17. Pb_pal

    Pb_pal IncGamers Member

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    I don't know if melee needs a point boost at all really. @kestegs pretty much nailed what I think popular opinion is around here. Melee is an extra challenge in pretty much any tournament, and people will pick it if they want to. :) I like the point system, and I think it adds an extra little element of fun (and competitiveness).

    Way back when I first frequented the forums, all tournaments tended to be scored upon points, I think it would be nice to have it again, just to change things up a little. As far as I can tell, they look pretty balanced as-is, but I am by no means an expert.

    As for what Drystan suggested for shopping, it's interesting. The old Ironman tournaments allowed you to interact with NPCs only if they had the "!" icon above their heads. Something like that might be able to be integrated, although personally I kind of like the complete ban on shopping.

    Either way, I like how this is shaping up. Like I said before, count me in whenever the time comes. :)
     
  18. SunsetVista

    SunsetVista IncGamers Member

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    I agree with @Pb_pal, including the neat idea for limited '!' shopping if shopping is to be included at all.
     
  19. pharphis

    pharphis IncGamers Site Pal

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    If not freedom to shop, why not compromise and limit it to gambling or all shopping except gambling? I think one or the other is more balanced, and personally I don't think I'd play a tourny that you can't shop potions for.
     
  20. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    I just realized that I had accidentally left that off the original post. Gambling IS allowed, and I'll update the rules to reflect that.
     

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