An argument for mages We've had a lot of mage vs. hybrid vs. revives or maxed this-or-that debates so I thought I'd throw in some numbers in support of mages. This is all basic addition so I don't think I'm screwing up the math this time. :uhhuh: Assume the following rich but semiconservative on the +skills gear setup that allows for other things that help promote survivability and actually being able to pick up gear: Harlequin Crest +2 all Mara's +2 all AoKL +2 Summon, +3 Skeleton Master, +2 Mages Any +2 all Armor Homonculus +2 all necro Another +1 all for one of the rings or belt whether it be a SoJ, BK, or Arachnid's Marrow's +2 Skeleton Mastery +5 Summons from skillers leaving some space left for other charms and picking up the occasional choice drop. With that setup I've got the following setup for mages from a calc. Mana cost: 45 Number of skeletons: 14 Poison damage: 337 Poison duration: 600 Seconds Cold Damage: 221 - 224 (Ã¸222.5) Cold Duration: 59 Seconds Fire damage: 391 - 395 (Ã¸393) Lightning damage: 59 - 616 (Ã¸337.5) Defense: 814 Hit Points: 1342 Resist lightning/cold/fire: 64% Now let's assume we have one poison mage and one ice mage and split the fire/lightning ones down the middle for 6/6. Outside of its ability to prevent heal for absurd durations the poison mage damage is negligible so I'm only adding the other three. So that's Ice - 1x222.5 Fire - 6x393 ='s 2,358 Lightning - 6x337.5 ='s 2,025 Total: 4,605.5 damage if every single shot hits the same target along with prevent heal and slow from the ice. Between immunities and high resistances in Hell, you should probably drop the damage by about half for a conservative estimate but this is all without putting Lower Resist or a merc equipped with Infinity into the equation Against hard physical immunes mages will do swimmingly. With this skellie focused gear, Bonespear with 20 points in it and 34 synergies from the marrows and teeth does about 1,347 points of damage will probably end up hitting large groups a lot harder since the spear passes through targets and hits others and magic immunity is considerably rarer than the elemental immunes. Bone Spirit with 35 synergies averages at 1,767 points of damage and doesn't pierce enemies so I think the mages clearly win out here on overall damage since your casting isn't going to be fantastic with the gear mentioned. The remaining problem with Bonespear vs. mages however is that they are working constantly whereas between the cursing and the CEing, you're only going to be firing off those bonespears about 2/3rds to half the time if you're quick on the hotkeys, which is the main reason I'm still on the "mages first" side of the fence. The cool part is that you can have it all. With a minimalist skellie build at 46 points, 20 more in mages, and 20 more in bonespear, you're at 86 points. That's 14 more to give yourself some crowd control curses and decrepify, get a point in bone armor for a huge HP vs physical boost, and maybe dump a few more synergies into bonespear. The cool thing having Bone Spear on top of everything else is that it's really not a bad source of supplemental damage where bosses and exceptionally tough super uniques are concerned. Once you've gotten your curses in place against single tougher opponents, all that remains is to start helping your mages and warriors out by blasting away and occasionally stopping to drink a pot or refresh a curse. With only 30% FCR you will be getting two spears out a second (Trang's gloves and Arachnid's - done). That could get you up to about 3,000K damage a second with the extra synergies and some more +skills. Only Duriel has magic resistance in Hell whereas all the other bosses have at least one hefty resistance to one of the elemental resistances so against bosses your bonespear will become competetive against the mages' attacks and might add up to one or two more skeleton warriors worth of damage if you have the crazy auras going. So what am I saying here? I think I'm going to add in Bonespear to my next summoner build on top of mages. A skelliemancer with all the auras and an additional 20 points to the bone spear synergies will probably be a faster boss killer but I like the fact that mages keep going while I'm tending to other things like CE and cursing against large packs of monsters. There really just is no way to argue against revives, however. With the right ones you could certainly make bosses go down harder with CB but I simply don't like taking the time to grab the right ones and I hate the time limit on them. Also, I won't have enigma just yet, since I'll be focusing on the ladder RWs first so I don't even want to waste time on losing them to their idiotic pathfinding. Don't get me wrong. I love that temporary boost you get from picking up a pack of champion or unique minions-class monsters (the ones that follow them around), but I prefer monsters I can keep. Sigh... I think I overdid it again.