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An alternative kicksin build?

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Arsenal, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. Arsenal

    Arsenal IncGamers Member

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    Hi, People!

    Couple of weeks ago I read something, that I didn't knew at all. It's about the sanctuary aura - the dmg to undead bonus is applied not to the character, but to the affected by the aura undead monsters. It sounded pointless at first. Why would the paladin have such an aura? I totally forgot the conversion skill - the converted monster would be killed much faster by the enhanced undeads. So, is there a character, who could benefit from the sanctuary aura even more? The assassin, of course - with her "AOE Convertion" (Mind Blast).

    Now I'm building a Lawbringer Kicksin and I need some suggestions about the build. I play untwinked and that's why I'm planning to run Ancient Tunnels until I find Azurewrath/Stormlash or some high runes.

    Do you think this build would be a good AT Runner?

    Now, my sin is 70 lvl, running Mephisto for some gear.

    My gear:
    Strenght Cutlass - 25 CB, 20 str, -30 WSM
    Rhyme Heater - 25 MF, 25 allresist, CBF
    3 OS Mask with Ptopaz - 72 MF
    Stealth Light Plate - 25 FRW/CR/FHR (and 3x8 FHR large charms to reach the 48 breakpoint)
    Goldwrap - 30 MF
    Rare Heavy Gloves - 22 MF, 25 L resist, 11 P resist, 2 str
    Rare Battle Boots - 30 FRW, 29 L resist, 20 F resist, 14% lvl 5 Nova when struck
    2 Nagelrings with 29 MF (one of them with 75 AR)
    Amulet - 34 MF, 33 mana

    I'm looking mostly for a Stealskull and Waterwalk (than upping the WW). I play HC and 156 str (Gore Rider), 136 dex (Phase Blade) requirements leave me with too small lifepool. I'll go for Gores when I get some better equipment.

    So, what do you think?
     
  2. bondcho

    bondcho IncGamers Member

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  3. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    I'm not sure if I understood what you wrote. Sanctuary aura affects Undead by knockbacking them (and small magic damage) and by making YOUR melee attacks doing more damage extra them (and ignores any resistances and immunities they might have vs physical damage). Why would you need to convert monsters to use them with Sanctuary aura? You look confused. Let us know if that is the case.

    Or show us where you read such information.

    Cheers
     
  4. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    Nulio, Arsenal is correct. Sancturary's damage bonus does not work correctly. In terms of the player character doing phyiscal damage, lvl 1 is the same as lvl 40. Higher sanctuary will do a little more knockback damage (still a pitiful amount) and knock back enemies in a larger radius.

    Monsters still do pitiful damage to each other, so I wouldn't want to count on using mindblast to convert just to use the aura bonus. Might as well do a revive necro instead :)

    For assassin AT running, I think sanctuary will slow you down due to "Slain Monsters Rest In Piece", which means you cannot (reliably) explode them with death sentry. There is still a window of time where they could be exploded, but it won't be regular. Use a normal kicking weapon and death sentry. If you want the aura push back, use it on an act 3 fire/lightning merc.
     
  5. nulio

    nulio IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for the information. Always learning new things in D2!
     
  6. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    I still don't understand in which manner sanctuary and conversion/mind blast are believed to work together. There is nothing which combines here. Only attacks by the originator of the aura benefit from the removal of physical immunity and the weapon damage bonus doesn't work at all.

    Edit: Perhaps it's about reducing the monsters's life after conversion ends and then getting them killed by the knockback damage? I don't think that the remaining life is low enough to get them killed with the aura quickly. However, they went to 1 life in early patches IIRC.

    BTW, knockback sucks pretty badly on a melee character if it's active all the time, making him follow the current target into crowds or to dangerous places. I think it's only useful in certain situations then, like when pinning a single, tough opponent to a wall and keeping him in hit recovery most of the time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2015
  7. XyleneCyanol

    XyleneCyanol IncGamers Member

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    I actually like the Sanctuary aura when fighting against Lord De Seis seal boss pack :D
     
  8. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    @krischan: kicker always has KB :)

    I'm not sure I see what the advantage is either.

    I think the OP means the converted monsters benefit from the damage in some way. But in this case I don't think the MB conversion is useful (is it ever?) Better to make a revive based character. Harmony has a useable amount of charges, Eternity is better.
     
  9. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    Can't say that I don't admire the originality for this idea, but I still can't see how it would be practically advantageous, even for HC. Of course it's nice to keep the Lawbringer around for dealing with PI's, so it's not a bad idea. I just don't see it making much of a difference for a kicker.
     
  10. Arsenal

    Arsenal IncGamers Member

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    The main idea is that the bonus %ed to undead is actually applied to the undead monsters, which are affected by the aura, not to the character! So if you convert an undead monster, the non converted monsters will have huge bonus dmg against the converted one. The thing I didn't think about at first is, that the decrepify will reduce the dmg, so this build will need even more precise character control, unless I find the Azurewrath.
    And about the knockback - it's true it could be kind of frustrating. That's why I do not use the Black runeword on kicksin. Dtalon's KB is applied to the last kick, but if you have KB in your gear, there's a chance to KB a monster with the first kick and the other 3/4 will miss the target. The KB from the sanctuary aura comes in pulses, so it's just about getting used to it.

    What do you think about Venom and gloves for this build? Almost all the monsters in the AT have 75% Presist, but just the poison skeleton mages are immune. Would you max Venom and use Trang gloves, or just max Venom and use some nice crafted gloves with CB, or no Venom at all? Let's not forget about the 20% FCR from the Trangs. FCR is underrated for assassins without Enigma, but a quick CoS/MB could be vital.
     
  11. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    I thought maxing Venom is what every kicker must do. It effectively doubles your DPS easily. Especially since kicks are rather weak and rely mostly on crushing blow to do a lot of damage, venom comes as blessing from a heaven. I mean, do kickers have some more important skills to spend points on? Max venom, X points dtalon, 1 dflight to telestomp, some mindblast, maybe master or whatever and still plenty of points left after that.
    Also not all monsters have 75 PR in AT, Invaders have 33% and mummies are immune (not the mages).

    Thing about Trang gloves what some people don't know is their 25% bonus to poison damage applies twice, not once. They apply once when you cast Venom, and they apply second time when you actually do the kicking. Same as dual Dream sorc gets her double bonus to damage from Lightning Mastery. Overall, Trang gloves increase your Venom damage by 1.25*1.25 = 1.5625 times, or by 56.25%. That is a lot.

    Now how worth would that be instead of some other gloves, I don't know. Bosses could become immune to posion after all.
     
  12. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    OK, now I got it. That will only work against converted/mindblasted undead, however. Also, monsters in hell mode deal far too little damage in comparison to their life amounts in order to be effective at killing, as already said. Finally, if conversion runs out, the monsters are left at rather low life ratings anyway which makes the suffered damage rather irrelevant, except the monster gets killed before. I'm not sure what it is like with mind blast, however.
     
  13. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    I don't particularly want to throw cold water on a new idea, but this idea does no damage to normal monsters (invaders) or demons. Until it's been tested, I'm sceptical if it will do much to undead.

    Put Lawbringer on a TS/DTail assassin (insert plug for my guide) and run the mausoleum.

    I guarantee you will give up on the mind blast after the fifth run.
     
  14. Arsenal

    Arsenal IncGamers Member

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    I know the Lawbringer is the perfect weapon for a TS/DT build. I just try to think out of the box.

    For Example an invader has two attacks:
    1) 57 - 97 ~ (77)
    2) 97 - 124 ~ (110)
    That's row dmg. Now enhance it with 660% ed bonus to undead (18 lvl sanc aura) or *7.6
    1) ~ 585
    2) ~ 836

    Physical resistance removal won't work here, I think, but still I can't consider the numbers as "minor dmg" and I'm still keen on spending some time in tests.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  15. maareek

    maareek IncGamers Member

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    Just for reference, the lowest tier of mummy in act 2 in Hell on players 1 has, according to the Arreat Summit, 3688-6883 hit points. For champion or unique monsters, that number would be multiplied. Even the lowliest skeletons have 2219-4227 hit points. And if you want to go to a higher players setting, you also increase that life pool. If ~836 seems like a reasonable amount of damage to you in comparison to those numbers (keeping in mind those are at the low end, vampires start at 5403-9604, for instance) then go ahead. It's a cool idea and definitely off the wall.

    It's just not something you're going to find anyone willing to recommend because that damage output can be dwarfed by, well frankly basically anything else you could do. If you want to go through with it, it's your time to spend how you want and if it sounds fun then go have fun. I've definitely done a good bit of non-optimal stuff in fun's name, and if you enjoy doing it then it's worth the time you put in.
     
  16. japanzaman

    japanzaman IncGamers Member

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    I think it comes down to what your real goal is for this project.

    Do you you want to farm items efficiently in the AT? Try trapsins, blizz sorcs, or FoHers.

    Do you want to take on what looks to be a rather challenging experiment for the novelty and perhaps discovery? Then proceed as planned! You can always respec, so why the heck not?
     
  17. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    Well, I would always put as much as possible into traps. And bosses can't become immune to poison, except for stacking poison length reduction mods on the Ancients.
     
  18. Gripphon

    Gripphon IncGamers Member

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    That is then some kind of hybrid between trapper and kicker in the end. It is definitely stronger than pure kicker for sure, you can practically max traps and have decent AR with kicks after all with only few points in dtalon. Something what Nagi used to do for running Baal.
    As a bonus, you would also have strong enough Fireblast, perhaps stronger than using kicks in some situations. That's why I usually don't think about combining traps and kicks and calling it a "kicker" since in that case kicks simply become secondary backup attack mainly to deal with bosses and certain enemies trap can't kill fast enough. Perhaps if she doesn't use Infinity, she could be the proper hybrid when traps lose the power and kicks become more significant.
     
  19. maxicek

    maxicek Moderator Single Player

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    Treachery for free Venom, unless you are wearing Enigma.

    But this becomes a trapper with decoration. The MB Sanctuary thing the OP mentions is pretty much third level damage.

    Traps > Kicks > MB Sanctuary

    The other factor to consider is that you can't telestomp with converted monsters like you can with revives.
     
  20. thefranklin

    thefranklin IncGamers Member

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    I was (in my head at least) suggesting to max a DS synergy instead of venom. I still think it is a full kicker because you aren't sacrificing kicking gear or points on Dtalon for traps, but I see your point. I also missed the fact they were tied to Lawbringer, which renders DS pretty neutered.



    Traps > Kicks > Exploding Shrines > Psychic Hammer > Act 3 Mercs > MB Sanctuary
     

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