Ammunition

[Chorkstain]

Ammunition

Blizzard has stated that they're doing away with ammunition for bows and the like, however I feel that they may be throwing away an aspect of that game which has a lot of potential.

In Diablo 2, ammunition was just something to keep track of, and there were no gameplay features that sprung from it other than having to trek back to town to replenish your supplies. But just because it failed in Diablo 2 doesn't mean it can't be implemented well. Here are some ideas that I propose:

Arrows (or other ammunition) could have their own set of possible magical affixes, meaning that you could switch arrows depending on your adversaries (if there was a quick way of doing this mid-battle it could be amazing). Ideally these modifiers with have noticeable in game effect, giving the player reason to change between ammunition.

There's a choice here. These projectiles could be exhaustible, in which case I propose this: Depending on the projectile, there is a chance that you can pick the arrows up after they've been discharged. You don't have to click on the arrows, just walk over them and they'll move back into the original stack. If they're infinite, not much lost I guess.

The last thing I would like to address is whether or not you can fire a basic form of ammunition even if you have no ammunition on you. Tentatively I would say... yes. These default missiles should deal the base weapon damage, whereas enchanted arrows may have various advantages and drawbacks.

 

[Kalara]

Re: Ammunition

I agree that ammo can open up many new possibilities. It works like this in many MMOs. However, in a hack and slash like diablo where the fun is in the speed of killing I think it detracts from gameplay more then it would add to it. Just my opinion.

 

[Chorkstain]

Re: Ammunition

The way I see it, it's not much different from another equipment slot. I'm not sure it would be that detrimental to the pace of the game at all.

 

[Firegrip]

Re: Ammunition

I love the idea of having a base damage infinite arrows, And then buying the enchanted ones for different effects and making the bonuses exhaustable.

Another idea for your picking up arrows idea might be just having all normal arrows, so that your basic arrows are exhaustable, but have skills that you can charge a certain amount of your basic arrows with the enchanted effects.

 

[Dimmu]

Re: Ammunition

Ever since D2 came out I've wanted magic,rare etc arrows. But people would just hoard them if they were completely finite. But if you could go to your local charsi or whatever and just repair/replenish them for a cost related to the various stats of the arrows, it could definetly work. Like after you've used them all you'd just have an empty quiver that could be replenished in order to avoid an accidental waste of all your crazy unique arrows that you'd spent several hours to find. Or some would just have an innate auto-replenish stat.

Set arrows would be a cool implement to a bow-based set too.

I really see no reason for them not to find a way for this to work.

 

[DemolitionSquid]

Re: Ammunition

I might be able to present some insight here on the problem with varying ammunition.

Variable ammunition could either be static or scale with the game.

If there were set normal poison, frost, fire, lightning, and arcane arrows who all added a static bonus, then they`d be useful early on but lose their effect over time as the monsters got stronger. Eventually their bonus would be negligible and it would be more cost efficient to just use regular arrows because they`d likely be cheaper. If all the arrows cost the same, then everyone would just use the arrows that benefited their build the most (likely frost) and never use the others. So you`d have variety, but it wouldn`t be noticeable in any significant way.

If the ammunition scaled, then you`d use all the kinds as you progressed through the game until you got the best kind, just as with any other weapon or armor. You`d arrive at the same problem that has plagued the gameplay from the beginning - everyone uses the best, and spits on the rest. That`s the nature of the game. In the end, you`d have only created a new form of disposable items.

The question really is, is it worth creating all these new arrow types knowing their purpose is only to scale just like every other item in the game, or is it better to just remove them altogether and make the game, leveling, income, and balancing flow at a more consistent pace?

 

[sunflowersmooth]

Re: Ammunition

arrows have their drawbacks, but imo blizzard should keep them and do something interesting with them, while not making it a mistake to include them.

The more customization, variety and creativity (while not harming gameplay) the better!

 

[Chorkstain]

Re: Ammunition

I didn't really think about the scaling problem. Then again, adding the arrow slot is really the same as adding a boots slot, gloves slot, etc.

The problem you mention doesn't bother me, but that's because I'm not really a power player. In my opinion, fun/new ideas is more important than balance.

 

[SlechtWeerBeer]

Re: Ammunition

Having Arrows/Bolts with magical properties just makes Bows worse (but equal in the end due to the arrows having magical properties), or OP'ed (because the arrows have magical properties).

Imho, keep 'em out.

 

[Jinchuu]

Re: Ammunition

They better make archers have to repair their bows/xbows then, it's only fair to the poor melee who have to put up with ridiculous repair costs.

 

[kreeper]

Re: Ammunition

If they treat the arrows as a new item slot I see no reason not to put them in. However all magical arrows should be replenishable and then balancing diversity of the arrows used at end game would be no different than balancing it for viable end game helms if you will. It would be no harder to implement than the new shoulder slots. I think it is a great idea and would love to see it.

 

[TheWhetherMan]

Re: Ammunition

I can see why Blizz wouldn't want to include ammunition. It's the one item type that depends on having another type of item equipped. Including arrows would add a lot of useless drops, especially since they won't be used regularly by more than one or two classes.

If they include arrows/bolts, I think they should be like any other item. They should be infinite because repairing doesn't add anything to the game except a money sink, and there are lots of interesting money sinks they could include instead. I don't like the idea of a few set ammo types (fire, frost, piercing, slowing, etc.) being sold in shops. If arrows can be magic, rare, etc. then the modifiers should be enough.

 

[TammerHime]

Re: Ammunition

The idea of being able to enchant your own arrows is really a great idea and it could add a lot to playing some type of class with a bow, but there are a few problems with it.

1. If you do not make each stack of arrows infinite what do you do with new types of arrows you pick up, do they auto enchant them selves makeing it impossible for you to run out of arrows, or do you have to re-echant ever single arrow you come across (Probaly would end up seeming more like a waste of resources.)

2. Ammo just clutters up the ground your inventory and has to be taken into account for all your bow fireing ablitlies.

3. Everyone would probaly end up useing the same type of arrow anyway. Such as (Am going to use gems/situations from d2) say you could enchant an arrow as a amazon. What do you have the most probaly doing, keeping things away from you, so really why run with anything but cold. Or i guess you could say well i dont have a problem keeping things away i just run outta mana/hp to fast so you throw on leech. right there are probaly the only things high level amazons would run with.

4. Might seem a little redundant but whatever. How do you script the arrows effect into aoe spells. Does the affect apply to all people that get hit by the aoe, or is it just the target that you hit? Really makes a lot more work for blizzard.

Other than those things really it would be a fun idea and i wouldnt mind them putting it in, it just takes a lot more time from blizzard.

 

[CombatShrine]

Re: Ammunition

It would be cool if you could find rare arrows and bolts. I've played a D2 mod where such things could drop.

 

[JonoLith]

Re: Ammunition

Ammo = Silly. No one likes running out of ammo in their fantasy fun based game. It's just straight up lame.

What's being talked about here though sounds kinda neat. Basically you're just creating another item slot for "ammo". As long as you don't run out of ammo, I don't see an issue with it.

Seriously though, running out of ammo = lame game play design.

 

[hellslayer]

Re: Ammunition

Blizzard has stated that they're doing away with ammunition for bows and the like, however I feel that they may be throwing away an aspect of that game which has a lot of potential.

In Diablo 2, ammunition was just something to keep track of, and there were no gameplay features that sprung from it other than having to trek back to town to replenish your supplies. But just because it failed in Diablo 2 doesn't mean it can't be implemented well. Here are some ideas that I propose:

Arrows (or other ammunition) could have their own set of possible magical affixes, meaning that you could switch arrows depending on your adversaries (if there was a quick way of doing this mid-battle it could be amazing). Ideally these modifiers with have noticeable in game effect, giving the player reason to change between ammunition.

There's a choice here. These projectiles could be exhaustible, in which case I propose this: Depending on the projectile, there is a chance that you can pick the arrows up after they've been discharged. You don't have to click on the arrows, just walk over them and they'll move back into the original stack. If they're infinite, not much lost I guess.

The last thing I would like to address is whether or not you can fire a basic form of ammunition even if you have no ammunition on you. Tentatively I would say... yes. These default missiles should deal the base weapon damage, whereas enchanted arrows may have various advantages and drawbacks.

I like this idea Imagine its just like Diablo2 where the bow is in left hand and ammo is in the other but the ammo dose not deplete, and depending on how good your ammo is it also adds damge or magical effects. i think this could be a realy possably cool adition if not a balance issue. I like it.

 

[hellslayer]

Re: Ammunition

BTW i hate running out of arrows with my zon!!! I realy hope they get ride of the rediculous stacks of ammo and just do one part=infinite. Diablo 1 had infinite arrows and I understand that they where goin for a more realistic approach but it just made the bowazon more tedious to play IMO.

 

[paperkut]

Re: Ammunition

What if there were arrows with magical properties like stated before. But I'm talking magic properties on par with ranged skills. e.g. Multishot arrows, Immolation arrows, strafing arrows, etc. Then any char would have the potential to be a ranged character (freeing up the possiblity of one of our next announced classes being our mainly ranged character). You could hotkey different arrow types in your inventory just like any other skill. As for ammo, what if the arrow count was ramped up like crazy. Then getting your arrows repaired would just put you on par with durability in melee weapons.

This would be kind of cool cuz we'd see ranged combat mixed with every type of character (magic, melee, etc.)